The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[aj1908]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Being based in Toronto will be a big step and essentially would mean a massive initial investment that perhaps the salary cap couldn't deal with at the moment?

It has to happen for them to be a genuine team representing Canada.  Yes they would have to work out salary cap allowances 

At the moment they kind of are ring ins.  The trolls are right it's almost another England team 

[aj1908]

4 minutes ago, Wildcat said:

My choice would be France TBH. Especially if we have Toulouse in SL by then, which is likely.

France should get a world cup but may be not right after England 

Avg temp in October is 14 c in Toronto so it's doable 

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

If I need to be limited so you can compete, you arent my contemporary. 

The game as whole doesnt benefit from the best being held back so clubs who would otherwise be left behind can compete. Just the minority who arent good enough for the top but are too arrogant to believe that. 

Besides, the issue with your suggestion isnt philosophical, its practical. It doesnt work because it discourages clubs from giving young players games

 

What do you really want the league to look like Scotchy, as we have had this last season with 12 clubs of varying degrees and abilities be it those striving for the top and also those who did not have as good a win/loss ratio but had the competition going right to the final whistle of the season, or, a league of say 6 clubs playing each other multiple times a season?

And, your second point of clubs being discouraged from giving youngsters an opportunity, EH! You have just proudly told us of your club blooding at least 9 player's in the last couple of seasons, Wigan and Saints have also given many youngsters an opportunity in that time frame and there are many more young player's coming through at other clubs, your statement just does not comprehend with actuallity.

So as I say, take youngster's who are good enough and have prooved the can compete at SL level from the cap total and what would happen, there would be a small number of clubs who can afford to pay more money for more player's on their roster. If this SC concession had ben in place in the last 2 years we may never have seen the likes of Walker, Smith, Oledski, Newman, McClelland, at your club, Smithies, Partington, Sharrocks at Wigan, and Smith, Ashworth, Costello, Bentley, Welsby at Saints, to name but a few THEY WOULD HAVE HAD LESS OPPORTUNITY TO PLAY BECAUSE THOSE CLUBS COULD AFFORD MORE SEASONED PLAYERS IN THEIR SQUADS, simple fact is with more seasoned player's allowed in squads the lesser the opportunity for the youngsters not the other way round as you describe.

As I state, if young player's are to be taken of the SC register, at what time do they become first team player's to be included in the cap, it has to be at either an age limit or after competing in a number of games NOT BOTH and I consider 10 to be an optimum number, clubs would then have to decide who to remove from their register, keep the potential of the youngster or let the seasoned player go obviously with compensation, that is not holding clubs back as you term it, it would be to stop rich clubs getting a further monoply on the best available talent around but that would not suit you, would it?

[Harry Stottle]

12 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Thats a strange assertion. 

The NFL has Laurent Duverny-Tardiff a qualified doctor with a masters in surgery. 

RL had Gareth Hock. 

We also had Father John Cootes a Roman Catholic Priest represent Australia 1967 - 1970  your point is?

[Harry Stottle]

11 hours ago, TIWIT said:

It will never happen but I'd love to see a top-flight running back or receiver try RL. They're used to looking for empty spaces and reacting quickly, shifting their weight and feet, protecting the ball in heavy traffic...

Where they would not be so good is in offloading the ball, and, more significantly, positioning themselves defensively. 

One out of 3 Tiwit, the good exponents of RL are usually good at the three rudiments, Running, Passing and Tackling.

And ho, most of them play for 80 mins with little rest time, not 20 seconds followed by 5 mins rest.

Ignore, read further down the thread and observed it had already been covered.

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

We didnt have the concession last year, so the issue didnt arise. You hadnt at that moment made it in the clubs best interest to make sure the players dont play 10 games last year so their Salary didnt count on the cap this. 

And yes, limiting the spending of the top clubs is holding them back, its the reason you want it, You know that your club can't compete on a level playing field so want it tilting in your favour. 

Interesting that your attitude to the cap was completely different when 'degsy' was throwing money about. I look forward to your campaign to see the championship salary cap lowered to about 150k so that Swinton have as much chance of promotion as Leigh. 

Nice post , but not answering his question 

On the lower tier salary cap , we managed to get promoted on a £250 K cap in 2004 2 years after it was introduced , I'm sure Dereck wouldn't be too bothered , it would save him money , it would create issues for any new clubs entering the RL tier from abroad , unless as we saw with Celtic Crusaders , it's different rules for different clubs ?

So what do you want SL to look like ?

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, TIWIT said:

I do sometimes wonder because most Brits just see the game on TV - 10 seconds of action, 45 seconds of guys standing about, repeat for 3+ hours.

It seems easy on TV. It's not. It is a brutal, vicious game. Most pro football players can barely get out of bed the next day, they are that beat up. 

Isn't that because of the protection they wear to safeguard against their opponents protection that inflicts the injuries? 

I once had the pleasure many years ago of being in the company of a couple of College boys from the States that were seconded to a University in Manchester and they accompanied the party I was with to a RL game (in fact it was not even a professional game), they were totally bemused how this game could be played without multiple amounts of padding protection and most especially not without a steel helmet, one even said he would never enter a field of play in a full on contact and collision sport such as RL without  being padded up and donning a helmet, and he concluded by saying he would expect that would be consensus of the vast majority of Football player's, they were also in awe of the time the game was in action without 'time outs' or player's being replaced.

Just saying.

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Kayakman said:

That is what I have been trying to tell you for a long time...you are finally coming around.  The rule needs to be changed: that is what I have been saying for 2 years!

Has the women turned to her husband when watching their son in the annual parade and said, "Look, they are all out of step except our Johnny"

I honestly don't get it K'man, you ask to come to the party, then want to change the venue, the music, the fare on offer to suit yourselves when everyone else abides by the rules. 

They say that most parties always end up in the kitchen, but there is another saying that that proclaims " If you don't like the heat, get out of the kitchen"

[Davo5]

Got to love all the NFL "experts" on this forum decrying its players as non athletes who only play for 20 secs in between long breaks,makes you wonder why 2 of our games finest athletes couldn't hack it over there.

[Harry Stottle]

9 hours ago, aj1908 said:

i think playing home games in england is something longer term the wolfpack cant do as it gives other teams too much of an advantage.

having months now before they get an actual home game sets them behind the 8 ball big time

the other thing is eventually the club has to be based full time in toronto when it is properly established in super league

what worked in the champ and league one probabaly wont work in super league

It comes down to what I have been saying for a long time aj, when the TWP play and train away from Canada for 9 months of the year the personnel and players are living at home in their own beds in England - save for the few antipodeans - but even they are stationed in the UK. 

It may just suit a lot of player's for this method to continue, the alternative living in Canada and travelling all the time, could player's on the money they are paid afford to purchase property in Canada and move the family over, could they keep up 2 properties one in each country, would they want to leave their familes behind in the UK for 9 months, there is a lot to consider RL is not like other sports where the player's earn a vast fortune.

[GUBRATS]

7 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Got to love all the NFL "experts" on this forum decrying its players as non athletes who only play for 20 secs in between long breaks,makes you wonder why 2 of our games finest athletes couldn't hack it over there.

Got to love all the RL experts from NA on this forum decrying the ability of pro RL players ,believing you can learn the game in a month or two as long as you can run fast 

[GUBRATS]

9 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Im not for the salary cap, just against the hypocrisy of those who argued for upping the SC to a level the lower championship clubs could get nowhere near and who also want the SL salary cap brought down to what their club can spend. 

What do you mean, what do i want SL to look like? Id like to see the best SL with the best players and biggest clubs. 

How many ?

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, Wildcat said:

My choice would be France TBH. Especially if we have Toulouse in SL by then, which is likely.

I don't know but should imagine, there must be certain financial guarantees to each nation competeing, could Tonga, Fiji, Cook Islands, Lebanon, Greece etc RL governing bodies finance the trip? and more importantly if that is the case could the FFR afford to gaurentee a World Cup in France?

[GUBRATS]

11 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Got to love all the NFL "experts" on this forum decrying its players as non athletes who only play for 20 secs in between long breaks,makes you wonder why 2 of our games finest athletes couldn't hack it over there.

Which tells you what ?

That it isn't just about athleticism , it is about learning how to play a game , which is exactly the reason why it is virtually impossible to convert one to the other either way , which is what we keep telling you , but you all ignore 

I reckon only one player , maybe 2 could have converted from RL to pro Gridiron , one was Desmond Drummond , who only actually took up RL at 18 , but was a supreme athlete , but his style of play was also very similar to a running back in the US game , perhaps Jason Robinson as another , other than that , none really spring to mind 

[GUBRATS]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

All the biggest ones.

Define ' Big ' in this context ?

[Harry Stottle]

2 hours ago, aj1908 said:

France should get a world cup but may be not right after England 

Avg temp in October is 14 c in Toronto so it's doable 

As my last post aj, who would take a gamble on financing a WC in Canada, they have no governing body so to speak,  and after the losses of the England v NZ game a couple of years ago the proposed WC in 2025 in North America was abandoned.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Biggest. 

There is no big and there is no number.

If we get 12 clubs with 10k crowds I want 14 with 15k crowds, when we get there I want 16 with 20k and so on

But now , like in the next 5 years ? , Who fits into your ' Big ' right now ?

[Davo5]

22 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Got to love all the RL experts from NA on this forum decrying the ability of pro RL players ,believing you can learn the game in a month or two as long as you can run fast 

Must have missed that 1 post.

[GUBRATS]

10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Leeds, wigan, saints, wire, hull, les Catalans, toronto, then whoever can keep up. That's why we have P+R isnt it?

7 

[GUBRATS]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

12, but I dont really care who the other 5 are.

I'd like Toulouse and London but that's personal preference. 

And isnt the point of P+R that teams will 'find their level' so if the other 5 cant keep up, they will drop down and be replaced by clubs from below who can?

 

Excellent , glad you want to retain P and R

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

I dont, but isnt that the reasoning behind it?

 

As I've said before , when there are 12/14 genuine ' Super ' clubs , then there won't be an argument for it 

Till then 

[aj1908]

43 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

As my last post aj, who would take a gamble on financing a WC in Canada, they have no governing body so to speak,  and after the losses of the England v NZ game a couple of years ago the proposed WC in 2025 in North America was abandoned.

yes it would need financial backing

potentially argyle and perez could stump up some funds, together with working with the government of canada to sponsor it to promote tourism

i think the nsw government has already said it will pay for it as long as the whole event is held in nsw lol

which at least is a turn around from last time when they didnt want to put in a cent into bidding for games. (at least in sydney)

if nsw does win it it will have had close to 2 billion spent on new stadia by then and the government is desperate for marquee events to pay these things off

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

And as I've pointed out, that backwards. The point of franchising is to create those super clubs.

Chicken and egg 

[dkw]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

Got to love all the RL experts from NA on this forum decrying the ability of pro RL players ,believing you can learn the game in a month or two as long as you can run fast 

Terrible strawman argument, literally no one has said any of that.

[aj1908]

11 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Well if Ottawa and New York are in the mix that would assist the bid.

Not really sure if Canada’s infrastructure/stadia could cater for a RL World Cup.

ottowa might be.  new york wont lol