The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Tommygilf]

15 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Funnily enough the Bristol game was heavily marketed by Joe , a Leyther living in Exeter , but that was a one off International 

He was a development officer who a year before the fixture was laid off by the RFL. His promotion work was paid for part time by the local council. We never learn

[Liverpool Rover]

2 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

Ok so let’s play along and take this at supposedly face value... Toronto was “non-strategic and added no material incremental revenue to Super League in the short or medium term”.

So there is a strategy then? And presumably this new 12th club will bring added material revenue? Well why doesn’t Mr Elstone enlighten us all on this? Oh, of course he can’t because it’s just a crock of **** words with no basis in reality.

So because they didn’t think that they would make money in the short term and had to wait long term then they weren’t worth bothering with?

Oh and of course there is enough sports in Canada as it is so let’s not bother because of that as well .

[Harry Stottle]

55 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

I thought they earned that right on the field of play like you keep banging on about.

Have you forgot the week leading into the GF last season, granted they won it on the pitch but that was not going to allow them to play in SL unless the clubs agreed.

[Tommygilf]

12 minutes ago, Liverpool Rover said:

So because they didn’t think that they would make money in the short term and had to wait long term then they weren’t worth bothering with?

Oh and of course there is enough sports in Canada as it is so let’s not bother because of that as well .

Its laughable isn't it. We have clubs here thats struggle to make half of Toronto's average that don't even have any direct competition and a whole heap of Rugby League history.

[Phil]

Ah well, we’ve decided we don’t want a Rugby League presence in the 4th largest city on the North American continent and some people are suggesting that Featherstone, Featherstone ffs should replace the Wolfpack.

Says it all to me, small game, small minds, zero ambition. 

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

Ah well, we’ve decided we don’t want a Rugby League presence in the 4th largest city on the North American continent and some people are suggesting that Featherstone, Featherstone ffs should replace the Wolfpack.

Says it all to me, small game, small minds, zero ambition. 

We actually agree, this is amazing!

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

We actually agree, this is amazing!

It won’t last

[bigbaldnmad]

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

Ah well, we’ve decided we don’t want a Rugby League presence in the 4th largest city on the North American continent and some people are suggesting that Featherstone, Featherstone ffs should replace the Wolfpack.

Says it all to me, small game, small minds, zero ambition. 

Sorry Phil, never never land doesn't exist.

As I said elsewhere, why not have the best 12 teams in the top league, then at the end of the season the 12th best and 13th best team swap places.

A bit radical, but he ho.

[Adelaide Tiger]

Just come onto the thread and have no appetite for reading the last 15-20 pages or so.

9-4 is a big ‘No’ to their readmission so as I believe in a democracy I have no issue with the vote, just saddened that what I saw as a golden opportunity to break out of the ‘heartlands’ has failed.

So I hope to God that Elstone and all the other clubs that voted against TWP have some great ideas as to how to move the game forward.  But I fear that it will be the same old thing trotted out again.

[Niels]

I feel sorry for Toronto and their fans in Canada as I enjoyed the games against them in the championship.

I don't think this is the time for posters to be having digs at smaller teams etc. Especially if Toronto aren't their primary team. 

The Toronto fans were always very respectful to teams such as Batley and Featherstone and there was mostly goodwill. 

 

[Niels]

5 hours ago, Kayakman said:

Well its a sad day for Wolfpack fans but so be it.   I hope SL gets its act together and survives the current problems.  Good luck to you all!

Thank you for your always kind comments about Batley, Hunslet etc. 

It's a shame you can't play in the championship again as there were some great games in the 2 seasons you were there. The super 8s were good also.

I think maybe the size of the city meant you would always need to be looking at super league. Also Covid has been such a life changer.

I hope something can be sorted in the future and we will maybe see you back at Batley. 

Please keep posting as you are always very interesting.

 

[arcticchris]

I am very disappointed with my own team Wigan for voting to shut the door on Toronto.

Really makes me feel even more disillusioned about the direction Rugby League is going in this country.

[Pulga]

1 hour ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Just come onto the thread and have no appetite for reading the last 15-20 pages or so.

9-4 is a big ‘No’ to their readmission so as I believe in a democracy I have no issue with the vote, just saddened that what I saw as a golden opportunity to break out of the ‘heartlands’ has failed.

So I hope to God that Elstone and all the other clubs that voted against TWP have some great ideas as to how to move the game forward.  But I fear that it will be the same old thing trotted out again.

We know there won't be a plan. Elstone will fall on his sword if need be and things will continue as is.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

2 hours ago, Niels said:

I feel sorry for Toronto and their fans in Canada as I enjoyed the games against them in the championship.

I don't think this is the time for posters to be having digs at smaller teams etc. Especially if Toronto aren't their primary team. 

The Toronto fans were always very respectful to teams such as Batley and Featherstone and there was mostly goodwill. 

 

It's a really disappointing aspect of this. Fev seem like the popular target as if it's Fev's fault they have been kicked out or the choice was Toronto or Fev. Plenty of people to blame here, 'smaller', better run clubs shouldn't be the target of people's frustrations.

[CanadianRugger]

It's been a good three years and I have had fun watching TWP. However, I am doing the only thing I can do now and voting with my wallet.

I've cancelled my Sportsnet NOW subscription (Canadian provider who carries Super League) and let them know it's because of this decision.

It's Watch NRL App for me from here on out and I won't be following Super League any longer.  

[Tex Evans Thigh]

Disappointing, but not surprising. LiVolsi came across like a con man to be honest, no interest in the sport and a desperate last minute play to keep the club going. Such a shame at yet another missed opportunity. The sport can't keep going in these endless cycles, lessons have to learned, but they won't.

Questions:

- Why have the RFL, the games governing body, got no more say in the make of SL than Wakefield or Salford?

- If SL isn't commercially or strategically viable in Canada, why wasn't this assessment done when Toronto were entered into the system? Or even when it was clear they were going to win promotion at some point?

- Why do we have two governing bodies completely at odds with each other?

- How come incumbent clubs in a division can vote on who joins the league, isn't there a conflict of interest here?

- If the clubs decide to retain 11 teams, are we just admitting defeat as a sport?

- Why do people throwing their toys out of the pram at this decision keep blaming Fev and Leigh for trying to be the best they can be as if it's their fault Toronto were managed like a students night out.

- How is it possible for 'sports business leaders' to think that there are no commercial or strategic benefits in having a team in the top division from Toronto?

- What now happens to Ottawa and NY? Are they banned from ever entering SL because its not viable?

- Do Toronto drop to the Championship and play there? Can they? 

- How long before Union pitch up in Toronto and make a decent go of it?

- When is Parksider coming back? 

[Oldbear]

24 minutes ago, CanadianRugger said:

It's been a good three years and I have had fun watching TWP. However, I am doing the only thing I can do now and voting with my wallet.

I've cancelled my Sportsnet NOW subscription (Canadian provider who carries Super League) and let them know it's because of this decision.

It's Watch NRL App for me from here on out and I won't be following Super League any longer.  

I’m currently in the process of moving from Vancouver to the Okanagan and have to say this will be my plan to, as my RL fix can be easily satisfied by the better quality NRL.

[Oldbear]

20 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Disappointing, but not surprising. LiVolsi came across like a con man to be honest, no interest in the sport and a desperate last minute play to keep the club going. Such a shame at yet another missed opportunity. The sport can't keep going in these endless cycles, lessons have to learned, but they won't.

Questions:

- Why have the RFL, the games governing body, got no more say in the make of SL than Wakefield or Salford?

- If SL isn't commercially or strategically viable in Canada, why wasn't this assessment done when Toronto were entered into the system? Or even when it was clear they were going to win promotion at some point?

- Why do we have two governing bodies completely at odds with each other?

- How come incumbent clubs in a division can vote on who joins the league, isn't there a conflict of interest here?

- If the clubs decide to retain 11 teams, are we just admitting defeat as a sport?

- Why do people throwing their toys out of the pram at this decision keep blaming Fev and Leigh for trying to be the best they can be as if it's their fault Toronto were managed like a students night out.

- How is it possible for 'sports business leaders' to think that there are no commercial or strategic benefits in having a team in the top division from Toronto?

- What now happens to Ottawa and NY? Are they banned from ever entering SL because its not viable?

- Do Toronto drop to the Championship and play there? Can they? 

- How long before Union pitch up in Toronto and make a decent go of it?

- When is Parksider coming back? 

This is a fantastic post, like you I had doubts about LiVolsi and his motives, but again have to question why we have clubs making such key decisions when they have vested interests. 
 

With regard to some of your other questions

I think NA is now dead for RL, Ottawa will almost certainly withdraw and NY seems to be even more fragile than TWP. RU will definitely step in, if they follow TWPs promotion and marketing they will be relatively successful.

Dropping to the Championship does not seem like an option, the clubs there don’t really want TWP, plus with Covid still around whose to say there will even be a Championship next year. Plus let’s say TWP did come back in the Championship, what happens if they win it? In fact I suspect that SL will now look to become a closed shop so no more P&R.

Totally agree that this is not Leigh and Fevs fault, in fact see my point above, this decision could end up hurting them too if SL seals itself off from the rest of the league.

Parky could be like Candyman, keep saying his name and he will return!

[Oldbear]

17 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Hopefully a Championship/ L1 broadcasting deal will come along. You up for that? 

Why as fans are you not asking the club to start in champ or L1 again? The obvious backer was a weasel! Surely your club can regroup and play your games over here. 
 

Or has the money well and truly gone.

I think the concern may be that if TWP do regroup in the Championship (which would actually be my preferred option), what happens if they win it, could SL say no again, in which case it’s money wasted.

I actually do worry for you guys at Leigh, you are a great club, however I suspect that this whole sorry episode is going to give the existing SL clubs an excuse to close the door.

[Oldbear]

21 minutes ago, SL17 said:

Hopefully a Championship/ L1 broadcasting deal will come along. You up for that? 

Why as fans are you not asking the club to start in champ or L1 again? The obvious backer was a weasel! Surely your club can regroup and play your games over here. 
 

Would love to see a Championship/L1 TV deal, not sure where it’s coming from though.

I don’t know enough about LiVolsi to agree with you, however I have been worried from the outset that he was only in it for his grooming business. As I have said many times it’s not enough to ask if the prospective owner has the wealth, their level of long term commitment also needs to be established, Richard Branson is probably the best example of a very rich man who got involved with RL, but had no long term commitment or love of the sport.

[nadera78]

I'm on the outside here, so I have no idea what TWPs presentation was like, or the new man behind it, or the reception it received from the other clubs and Elstone. It's only based on rumour and experience. So it's difficult to really comment on any of that.

What I will say though is that (and I'm not alone in this) I've spent 10 years saying the game in England is heading in one direction only - a small, local competition played in front of stagnant crowds and stagnant TV viewing figures, with low salaries and low expectations, and where any player with ambition will leave for the NRL (and occasionally union). Well, I think we're already at that point and everyone in the game knows it. The clubs are simply scrabbling around looking for enough scraps to keep themselves alive. There's no plan for growth either at club or governing body level, and no desire for it even, just a desperate attempt to stay alive. The difference between SL and the NRL - on and off the pitch is night and day.

RL in England's only hope for the future is to get as many players as possible playing in the NRL and hope the England team gets some success off the back of it. That won't help the clubs grow but it will keep them alive.

[rlno1]

If he was a conman, why did St.Helens and Leeds vote for them. The are two of the most professional clubs in the league.

[Neutralfan7]

What a shame

[Just Browny]

My overall feelings were of sadness yesterday when I saw the headline, but now I have actually read the disingenuous quotes from Elstone I feel quite angry. I can't wait to see the reports on the strategic value and incremental revenue gains added by future and incumbent English teams.

Very disappointed in my own club which I thought was one of the few forward-thinking ones.

[gingerjon]

3 hours ago, nadera78 said:

I'm on the outside here, so I have no idea what TWPs presentation was like, or the new man behind it, or the reception it received from the other clubs and Elstone. It's only based on rumour and experience. So it's difficult to really comment on any of that.

What I will say though is that (and I'm not alone in this) I've spent 10 years saying the game in England is heading in one direction only - a small, local competition played in front of stagnant crowds and stagnant TV viewing figures, with low salaries and low expectations, and where any player with ambition will leave for the NRL (and occasionally union). Well, I think we're already at that point and everyone in the game knows it. The clubs are simply scrabbling around looking for enough scraps to keep themselves alive. There's no plan for growth either at club or governing body level, and no desire for it even, just a desperate attempt to stay alive. The difference between SL and the NRL - on and off the pitch is night and day.

RL in England's only hope for the future is to get as many players as possible playing in the NRL and hope the England team gets some success off the back of it. That won't help the clubs grow but it will keep them alive.

I think this is broadly right. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of reach decision or circumstance, the direction of travel for English RL, that of retrenchment initially and basically contraction subsequently, is now pretty clear.

And this gives some people, fewer and fewer each time, deep and abiding joy.