Sky Sports halves offer for TV rights

[LeeF]

30 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

The SportsPro website claims "all sports" will get reduced tv rights following COVID.  There may be sites and comments on this.

There has been a lot of hysteria being generated and other issues are being conflated in it.

The last Football round of rights went down by 11%, and if COVID is a factor then we might well get less than 11%.  As I regularly point out, the wider RFL fraternity need to organise its structure & organisation in a rational and viable way.  Self interest has been stopping it.

So if last time was c£30m per year then something iro of £25m would be ballpark. On the basis that the current offer is being reported as being in excess of £20m the figures aren’t too far apart especially if the game can squeeze a few extra quid out of the negotiations

[haskey]

Super League was partly created to try and bring a decent deal to the table and they thought  Elstone was the man to broker a cracking deal. If he does not perform and improve the deal by a lot, surely it will be time for him to go.

Also if the deal is agreed , we should make conditions that Thursday nights are a no no. 

It is hardly the Rugby league's fault that we got this Covid, and it caused chaos. At least you lot in SL got your club to watch this year. 

[del capo]

46 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

No. People might have suspected RL if being the corner shop but didn't know for sure. Now it's clear. 

If only Alf Roberts was still around.

Didn't he end up being thrown off a Gateshead car park in ' Get Carter ' ?

[The Future is League]

2 minutes ago, haskey said:

Super League was partly created to try and bring a decent deal to the table and they thought  Elstone was the man to broker a cracking deal. If he does not perform and improve the deal by a lot, surely it will be time for him to go.

Also if the deal is agreed , we should make conditions that Thursday nights are a no no. 

It is hardly the Rugby league's fault that we got this Covid, and it caused chaos. At least you lot in SL got your club to watch this year. 

It's highly unlikely that Elstone get an improved deal, in fact impossible

It's highly unlikely we will get a deal to match the last deal we got.

No matter what deal we get at the end of the day Elstone won't quit unless he's paid compensation, and the clubs can't afford that.

[Scotchy1]

30 minutes ago, DC77 said:

I’ve tried to give an answer above.

Im not sure that the game itself is the major problem. Sure tweaks can be made but it isnt going to change an awful lot

 

[Jao 711]

4 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Leeds, Warrington and Saints are the only clubs that own their own grounds and have modern facilities. (Huddersfield co own I guess so them too).

I think it will be a while before Leeds actually own their ground again.I don’t know about Wire andSaints.but what is the big fuss about” owning”  the ground.Over half of Super League teams,play in shared or municipal stadiums and it works just fine for them The same situation applies in the NRL..In fact their are advantages to sharing.(Cas and Wakey fans take note ) .My point is this.We have developed a great product on the field but we have badly neglected it off the field We call it “The greatest game” but I’m afraid that isn’t enough in 2021.

[tag]

1 minute ago, Jao 711 said:

I think it will be a while before Leeds actually own their ground again.I don’t know about Wire andSaints.but what is the big fuss about” owning”  the ground.Over half of Super League teams,play in shared or municipal stadiums and it works just fine for them The same situation applies in the NRL..In fact their are advantages to sharing.(Cas and Wakey fans take note ) .My point is this.We have developed a great product on the field but we have badly neglected it off the field We call it “The greatest game” but I’m afraid that isn’t enough in 2021.

Is it a great product on the field though? 

[whatmichaelsays]

27 minutes ago, haskey said:

Super League was partly created to try and bring a decent deal to the table and they thought  Elstone was the man to broker a cracking deal. If he does not perform and improve the deal by a lot, surely it will be time for him to go.

Also if the deal is agreed , we should make conditions that Thursday nights are a no no. 

It is hardly the Rugby league's fault that we got this Covid, and it caused chaos. At least you lot in SL got your club to watch this year. 

The issue I have with this thinking is that it assumes that RL's problems were rooted in a failure of salesmanship or negotiation - it's this whole "we have a great product but we don't sell it....." thing. 

Elstone has been asked to sell something that is increasingly at odds with what sports TV audiences want - better salesmanship will only compensate for that for so much. 

If the TV deal is poorer, it is (or should be) less a reflection on Elstone and more of a reflection on the Super League clubs who have had five years since the last TV deal was inked to adapt the sport to modern viewing trends. 

And why should Sky bin off Thursdays? Thursdays work for Sky. If the clubs are happy to take their cash, the onus is on them and them alone to work out how to make Thursday nights work. That starts with ditching the whole "how can we find more people like us?" mentality and looking for people who are looking for things to do on Thursday nights. 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Jao 711 said:

I think it will be a while before Leeds actually own their ground again.I don’t know about Wire andSaints.but what is the big fuss about” owning”  the ground.Over half of Super League teams,play in shared or municipal stadiums and it works just fine for them The same situation applies in the NRL..In fact their are advantages to sharing.(Cas and Wakey fans take note ) .My point is this.We have developed a great product on the field but we have badly neglected it off the field We call it “The greatest game” but I’m afraid that isn’t enough in 2021.

Because they are the assets of the game and the question was about the game's strength since Super League. Renting any ground in the UK comes with significant risks.

That you've come and said Cas and Wakey could share only demonstrates your ignorance.

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, Scotchy1 said:

Ah well, if they dont pass the purity test, their money is no good.

Indeed. 

So much for the oft-famed "British sporting psyche" that we so often hear about that tells us fans want to attend every away game and only ever turn up at the stadium for the match, rather than sitting in the pub or on the sofa watching on TV and enjoying things other than the action on the field. Clearly anything that doesn't facilitate the former is clearly a waste of effort.  

[LeeF]

42 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

It's highly unlikely that Elstone get an improved deal, in fact impossible

It's highly unlikely we will get a deal to match the last deal we got.

No matter what deal we get at the end of the day Elstone won't quit unless he's paid compensation, and the clubs can't afford that.

What is there to say that he hasn’t already got an improved deal? Maybe the original offer was sub £20m? Maybe he gets it to £25m? Both those scenarios would mean that he has succeeded against your sole criteria

[GUBRATS]

6 hours ago, Big Picture said:

No it's not conjecture, the former CEO of one of the game's top pro clubs has clearly stated in interviews with Tony Collins that the game being locked into such towns is the reason why it has so little money.  If the game wants to attract serious money, then it needs to break out of those towns and that's just the way it is.

The game ? 

The game is those towns 

[Rugbyleaguesupporter]

Problem is the RFL part was massively inflated. The old distribution gave millions to championship and league one clubs, despite no value in their rights. 

Incredibly most of my fellow lower league fans seem to be aghast that we received millions of pounds for no regular live games. 

If tv money goes down 200k, your looking at extra 1k a week paying £20 or so- not insurmountable for some of the bigger clubs but challenging. 

I find the constant pro game cant survive chat a little frustrating. It will survive. I'm struck by the crossover between people who said we sold ourselves short with tv deal last time but now we are now a dying sport. 

On elstone- I'm mixed- hes expensive but on the tv deal hes in a tight spot. 

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

1 hour ago, Jao 711 said:

I think it will be a while before Leeds actually own their ground again.I don’t know about Wire andSaints.but what is the big fuss about” owning”  the ground.Over half of Super League teams,play in shared or municipal stadiums and it works just fine for them The same situation applies in the NRL..In fact their are advantages to sharing.(Cas and Wakey fans take note ) .My point is this.We have developed a great product on the field but we have badly neglected it off the field We call it “The greatest game” but I’m afraid that isn’t enough in 2021.

Around 40 years from now.....

[fieldofclothofgold]

Leeds are paying a mortgage on the new stands 

[M j M]

1 hour ago, Jao 711 said:

I think it will be a while before Leeds actually own their ground again

We own the ground.

Just not the structures Legal & General have built on it to the north and south of the pitch

But if you don't understand why for Leeds in particular and to a slightly lesser degree Wire and Saints the ownership and exploitation of the ground is fundamental to their business model then I suggest you might want to dip out of this thread.

[GUBRATS]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

You’d be surprised on the amount of residents of Warrington who actually go to games. I know plenty of season ticket holders of Everton, Liverpool, Man City & Man Utd. I’m not talking Joe Bloggs in the pub  

So you are suggesting there's 2000+ , Utd,City,Pool,Everton season ticket holders each in Warrington ? , Maybe 500 of each , but not 8000 in total , plenty who buy a shirt every 4 years , but even then , that really doesn't matter 

Much is made of TV viewers , but the vast majority of the top tier are at capacity for their League fixtures , it is that which should be the primary aim of the clubs , others will disagree 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

So you are suggesting there's 2000+ , Utd,City,Pool,Everton season ticket holders each in Warrington ? , Maybe 500 of each , but not 8000 in total , plenty who buy a shirt every 4 years , but even then , that really doesn't matter 

Much is made of TV viewers , but the vast majority of the top tier are at capacity for their League fixtures , it is that which should be the primary aim of the clubs , others will disagree 

Anyone who can do basic "which number is bigger" maths will disagree

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Anyone who can do basic "which number is bigger" maths will disagree

Sorry , not getting your point

[Tommygilf]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Sorry , not getting your point

The money top division clubs make from gameday attendance vs the money they make from TV is astronomically different. Clubs like Southampton don't need a single person to turn up because they make profit purely from TV revenue for example. They get over £1million for each domestic TV slot they are given on top of that.

They've all realised that having 40,000 in the ground is fantastic, but having millions watching on TV is even more lucrative. That's not opinion its fact.

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

The money top division clubs make from gameday attendance vs the money they make from TV is astronomically different. Clubs like Southampton don't need a single person to turn up because they make profit purely from TV revenue for example. They get over £1million for each domestic TV slot they are given on top of that.

They've all realised that having 40,000 in the ground is fantastic, but having millions watching on TV is even more lucrative. That's not opinion its fact.

Yes , but RL aren't going to get that 

Where essentially does the Premier money come from at base level ? , Ie , where do SKY/BT get their money from ?

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Yes , but RL aren't going to get that 

Where essentially does the Premier money come from at base level ? , Ie , where do SKY/BT get their money from ?

You stated "people may disagree" when talking about the value of TV audiences vs spectators in person when it came to the premier league. The value doesn't even come close to comparison. 

People paying monthly subscriptions and advertisers wanting to be associated with the broadcaster for that audience.

[Mr Frisky]

9 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The money top division clubs make from gameday attendance vs the money they make from TV is astronomically different. Clubs like Southampton don't need a single person to turn up because they make profit purely from TV revenue for example. They get over £1million for each domestic TV slot they are given on top of that.

They've all realised that having 40,000 in the ground is fantastic, but having millions watching on TV is even more lucrative. That's not opinion its fact.

I always think this is proven by comparing the English Premier league with the SPL.

Rangers and Celtic both get over 50,000 fans for each home game but the TV deal us worth peanuts compared to the EPL.

I think their best paid players are paid around £25,000 to £30,000 a week compaired to a mid size EPL club paying say £50 to £75k a week - and that includes a small ish club like Southampton.

Probably the reason why Leicester won the league a few years ago and continue to compete- gate money isnt as important as it was 20 years ago as the TV money pays most of the Bill's.

For RL..... if only Sky could squeeze out enoyto match the current deal.... yes the one everyone on here complained about a few years ago.

[Damien]

29 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

The money top division clubs make from gameday attendance vs the money they make from TV is astronomically different. Clubs like Southampton don't need a single person to turn up because they make profit purely from TV revenue for example. They get over £1million for each domestic TV slot they are given on top of that.

They've all realised that having 40,000 in the ground is fantastic, but having millions watching on TV is even more lucrative. That's not opinion its fact.

In the 2017/18 season West Brom got the least money from TV at a paltry £94,666,492. Man Utd got the most at £149,767,145.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Mr Frisky said:

I always think this is proven by comparing the English Premier league with the SPL.

Rangers and Celtic both get over 50,000 fans for each home game but the TV deal us worth peanuts compared to the EPL.

I think their best paid players are paid around £25,000 to £30,000 a week compaired to a mid size EPL club paying say £50 to £75k a week - and that includes a small ish club like Southampton.

Probably the reason why Leicester won the league a few years ago and continue to compete- gate money isnt as important as it was 20 years ago as the TV money pays most of the Bill's.

For RL..... if only Sky could squeeze out enoyto match the current deal.... yes the one everyone on here complained about a few years ago.

Tbf the difference isn't vastly too much just considering Super League.

At £1.8 million x 12 = £21.6 million to pay Super League clubs what they (should) get now. Up to £25 million a season and you've probably covered the SL central Executive team too. Its not a huge difference from the reported offer by Sky.

Where this low offer really risks biting is the Championship and League 1.

The SPL is actually quite a solid comparison for Super League in a lot of ways. It has some clubs on a supremely high level arguably of intrinsic value to the league; a group below them on another rung that occasionally challenge the top teams but are also equally liable to be relegated any given season; and then essentially small town/village/suburb teams after that. Considering Scotland is football mad unlike the North of England in relation to RL, they get £25 million a season from Sky and a few others. Without a strong presence or interest outside the M62 how can we seriously expect any more?