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Wakefield Trinity plans submision


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Just now, OMEGA said:

With no disrespect to Oldham, Championship 1 or even The Championship they aren’t the face of Rugby League that we present to the world at large on a weekly basis.

Its just my opinion but driven by the falling participation numbers and viewing figures I think the RFL and broadcast partners will realise they need to make big changes and be ruthless!

A rebrand is needed across the game but in particular through the top tier clubs and both the BBC & SKY presentation of the game. I don’t think late 19th and very early 20th century dilapidated stadiums will fit the rebrand.

I just don’t get the desperation from some to want to throw clubs out of the competition when they may well be delivering in plenty of other areas. If we start throwing clubs out purely for a lack of a ground, why aren’t we throwing clubs out purely for lack of Academies, not enough fans or offering little to competition? 

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For anyone interested the plans submitted by Trinity to the LA for planning approval   https://planning.wakefield.gov.uk/online-applications/applicationDetails.do?keyVal=QKB7D2QQJOS00&ac

We were all told in 1998 to up grade our grounds, Fev did but Wakefield spent it on players, they won the GF and promised to do ground so they could stay in SL, the rest is history. 

Trevor Woodward was completely correct back in the late 70s to early 80s when he said a new ground at the yet to be developed land around what is now Pugneys. Unfortunately and like many clubs at

13 minutes ago, Hela Wigmen said:

I just don’t get the desperation from some to want to throw clubs out of the competition when they may well be delivering in plenty of other areas. If we start throwing clubs out purely for a lack of a ground, why aren’t we throwing clubs out purely for lack of Academies, not enough fans or offering little to competition? 

I’m not desperate anything!

The game is shrinking at an alarming rate and it was long before Covid-19s effect.

We've lost huge numbers of amateur teams and in some cases whole amateur clubs have disappeared. The latest Sport England participation numbers were dire and well down on 10 to 15 years ago. Viewing figure have fallen drastically over the same period of time and with that fall we’ve lost coverage and magazine shows like SL Extra Time, Boot n All, Championship coverage has pretty much disappeared and NRL coverage is well down. We can’t attract headline sponsors for our Top Tier Competition and have basically given Rights away. The international game has all but vanished apart from the World Cup! We no longer have Full Lions/Kangaroo/ Kiwi Tours, we no longer have Tri Nations competitions and we have to beg The NRL to play the WCC every year.

Now believe it or not I’m not a doom monger and I’m not ringing the bell for the demise of the game but the above are all facts and we can’t afford to ignore the direction of travel the games been following for well over a decade.

Something has to change and it needs to be something big and meaningful that will reinvigorate the game and help it arrest the decline.

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12 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

I’m not desperate anything!

The game is shrinking at an alarming rate and it was long before Covid-19s effect.

We've lost huge numbers of amateur teams and in some cases whole amateur clubs have disappeared. The latest Sport England participation numbers were dire and well down on 10 to 15 years ago. Viewing figure have fallen drastically over the same period of time and with that fall we’ve lost coverage and magazine shows like SL Extra Time, Boot n All, Championship coverage has pretty much disappeared and NRL coverage is well down. We can’t attract headline sponsors for our Top Tier Competition and have basically given Rights away. The international game has all but vanished apart from the World Cup! We no longer have Full Lions/Kangaroo/ Kiwi Tours, we no longer have Tri Nations competitions and we have to beg The NRL to play the WCC every year.

Now believe it or not I’m not a doom monger and I’m not ringing the bell for the demise of the game but the above are all facts and we can’t afford to ignore the direction of travel the games been following for well over a decade.

Something has to change and it needs to be something big and meaningful that will reinvigorate the game and help it arrest the decline.

Pretty much nailed it there.

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50 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

At some point in the future, not sure if it’ll be sooner or later, the RFL and Super League will grow some testicles and get serious about stadium standards. When they do the clubs that can’t match their requirements will be served a notice of demotion which will allow them a short period of time to complete the necessary building work or prepare for the Championship.

Currently that would mean Wakefield Trinity closely followed by Castleford Tigers, however, if Wakefield complete the improvements currently under planning review then Castleford may well find themselves on a fast track out of SL.

Why a fast track?

One of SLs conundrums with Wakefield and Castleford is they have by far the worst stadiums but they have arguably the richest catchment area for talent and youth development in the whole game. If you removed both from SL then you risk shrinking the talent base for young players as there is no top tier club to isnpire the kids to pick up a rugby ball, no local community work and no local heroes who went to their school or lived at the end of their Road.

If (IF) Wakefield (or Castleford for that matter) build a stadium that’s fit for purpose then they solve that conundrum for the RFL & SL leaving the other WMDC SL club under more pressure as the game tries to improve its media image.

It was a fact not lost on former Wakefield Council leader Peter Box who blocked, schemed and prevaricated over all of Wakefield Trinity’s stadium plans at every opportunity! For those who do not know Box was/is a Tigers fan and shareholder.

Will building one stand overcome Wakefield's several shortcomings in comparison to Castleford ?

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30 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

I’m not desperate anything!

The game is shrinking at an alarming rate and it was long before Covid-19s effect.

We've lost huge numbers of amateur teams and in some cases whole amateur clubs have disappeared. The latest Sport England participation numbers were dire and well down on 10 to 15 years ago. Viewing figure have fallen drastically over the same period of time and with that fall we’ve lost coverage and magazine shows like SL Extra Time, Boot n All, Championship coverage has pretty much disappeared and NRL coverage is well down. We can’t attract headline sponsors for our Top Tier Competition and have basically given Rights away. The international game has all but vanished apart from the World Cup! We no longer have Full Lions/Kangaroo/ Kiwi Tours, we no longer have Tri Nations competitions and we have to beg The NRL to play the WCC every year.

Now believe it or not I’m not a doom monger and I’m not ringing the bell for the demise of the game but the above are all facts and we can’t afford to ignore the direction of travel the games been following for well over a decade.

Something has to change and it needs to be something big and meaningful that will reinvigorate the game and help it arrest the decline.

None of that backs up why we should throw Castleford out of Super League when they’re performing well on different metrics but lack the stadium to merit their stature. It’s counter productive and further damaging to the game, alongside the points you raise.  

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5 hours ago, Gav Wilson said:

I honestly don't think that would have made a blind bit of difference.

Nothing against York (or anyone actually) but 20 years to get a stadium (for a top flight club) should not be seen as acceptable. At all.

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2 hours ago, OMEGA said:

I’m not desperate anything!

The game is shrinking at an alarming rate and it was long before Covid-19s effect.

We've lost huge numbers of amateur teams and in some cases whole amateur clubs have disappeared. The latest Sport England participation numbers were dire and well down on 10 to 15 years ago. Viewing figure have fallen drastically over the same period of time and with that fall we’ve lost coverage and magazine shows like SL Extra Time, Boot n All, Championship coverage has pretty much disappeared and NRL coverage is well down. We can’t attract headline sponsors for our Top Tier Competition and have basically given Rights away. The international game has all but vanished apart from the World Cup! We no longer have Full Lions/Kangaroo/ Kiwi Tours, we no longer have Tri Nations competitions and we have to beg The NRL to play the WCC every year.

Now believe it or not I’m not a doom monger and I’m not ringing the bell for the demise of the game but the above are all facts and we can’t afford to ignore the direction of travel the games been following for well over a decade.

Something has to change and it needs to be something big and meaningful that will reinvigorate the game and help it arrest the decline.

Some of this is wrong or out of context. Yes, participation is significantly down, but the same applies to every major UK team sport. We had a brand new magazine programme on Sky last season, cancelled due to Covid. NRL coverage was at record levels on a main broadcaster in 2020. There was a Lions tour in 2019 and a Kangaroo tour all ready for 2020, scrapping the 3/4 was a backwards and unexplained step. I think BetFred pay record amounts for title rights, although overall central sponsorship income is down. Don't know about SL viewing figures or how we compare to others in change over time, not aware of any other sport crowing about their viewing figures though.

I completely agree the game is in managed decline however and something meaningful has to be done. Unfortunately the current management team are not inspiring confidence in me.

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2 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

None of that backs up why we should throw Castleford out of Super League when they’re performing well on different metrics but lack the stadium to merit their stature. It’s counter productive and further damaging to the game, alongside the points you raise.  

I’m not advocating anyone being thrown out, I said if Wakefield improve and modernise their stadium then Castleford might find themselves under added pressure. This could be especially so if the RFL & SL decide that the outward image of the sport needs to look more vibrant and modern to the casual sports fan.

To be honest though, we’ve used ‘other metrics’ to justify a teams continued inclusion for as long as I can remember and it isn’t achieving the results we desire. I’d love for us to be in a stronger position as a sport and for promotion & relegation to be the only deciding factor in who plays in what league. Unfortunately the world has changed and we are competing in a sport/business that is ruthless. The strong will survive and the weak will fade into oblivion, that’s Rugby Leagues fate if we don’t find a way to arrest the decline.

I’m straying away from the OPs intended message, I apologise for that but this is one natural line of discussion when talking about new stadiums, Castleford, Wakefield and the health of the game.

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51 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

Some of this is wrong or out of context. Yes, participation is significantly down, but the same applies to every major UK team sport. We had a brand new magazine programme on Sky last season, cancelled due to Covid. NRL coverage was at record levels on a main broadcaster in 2020. There was a Lions tour in 2019 and a Kangaroo tour all ready for 2020, scrapping the 3/4 was a backwards and unexplained step. I think BetFred pay record amounts for title rights, although overall central sponsorship income is down. Don't know about SL viewing figures or how we compare to others in change over time, not aware of any other sport crowing about their viewing figures though.

I completely agree the game is in managed decline however and something meaningful has to be done. Unfortunately the current management team are not inspiring confidence in me.

Let’s be totally honest then!

The sports with whom we compete closest may have declining participation but they start from a level of participation which dwarfs ours and they’re not at the critically low level that Rugby Leagues at. Also they are immeasurably stronger and richer in other areas of their sport.

The new magazine programme was welcome but it wasn’t on a par with those of other sports not even past programmes that Rugby League once enjoyed.

NRL coverage was at a high because the Super League was put on hold, as soon as we started playing games again the NRL coverage was pared back to almost nothing.

The 2019 Lions Tour was I’ll conceived and thrown together but I admit prior to the Tour I was excited to see a Lions Tour again. The experience of it didn’t live up to the expectation largely due to the ramshackle way it was thrown together and the disrespect shown by some toward the Lions traditions. The fact that I and so many were excited to see a tour surely shows that they are something we sorely need back on a regular calendar.

I really hope we can get regular 4 yearly Tours by the big 3 back on the Rugby League agenda. I’d love to see some club games as part of those tours though I recognise 13 or 14 games is a thing of the past but who could forget the unofficial 4th Test Vs Wigan and the amazing spectacles of Leeds, St Helens & Hull giving it to the Ausie midweek team. Likewise getting up at 5am to watch Great Britain take on Manly, St George and Parramatta.

Im glad to hear that Bet Fred are paying more for their sponsorship, let’s hope we can get the CC, Test matches and the lower divisions sponsored again.

Ive become the profit of doom in this thread which is far from my usual position.

 

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4 hours ago, OMEGA said:

With no disrespect to Oldham, Championship 1 or even The Championship they aren’t the face of Rugby League that we present to the world at large on a weekly basis.

Its just my opinion but driven by the falling participation numbers and viewing figures I think the RFL and broadcast partners will realise they need to make big changes and be ruthless!

I suspect similar, except that the broadcast partners will hold the upper hand so will force change. Of course there are now a decent number of good looking stadia to choose from as well, so less need to compromise than there would have been say 10-15 years ago, therefore anyone wanting to remain in the top flight will want to be sure they don’t fall down in this area. In addition sponsors are becoming more choosy in what they want for their financial support, and entertaining clients in good quality facilities, looking out onto a decent stadium, is more likely to persuade them to part with the cash, and that’s something that our clubs need as much of as they can get their hands on.

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30 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

Let’s be totally honest then!

The sports with whom we compete closest may have declining participation but they start from a level of participation which dwarfs ours and they’re not at the critically low level that Rugby Leagues at. Also they are immeasurably stronger and richer in other areas of their sport.

The new magazine programme was welcome but it wasn’t on a par with those of other sports not even past programmes that Rugby League once enjoyed.

NRL coverage was at a high because the Super League was put on hold, as soon as we started playing games again the NRL coverage was pared back to almost nothing.

The 2019 Lions Tour was I’ll conceived and thrown together but I admit prior to the Tour I was excited to see a Lions Tour again. The experience of it didn’t live up to the expectation largely due to the ramshackle way it was thrown together and the disrespect shown by some toward the Lions traditions. The fact that I and so many were excited to see a tour surely shows that they are something we sorely need back on a regular calendar.

I really hope we can get regular 4 yearly Tours by the big 3 back on the Rugby League agenda. I’d love to see some club games as part of those tours though I recognise 13 or 14 games is a thing of the past but who could forget the unofficial 4th Test Vs Wigan and the amazing spectacles of Leeds, St Helens & Hull giving it to the Ausie midweek team. Likewise getting up at 5am to watch Great Britain take on Manly, St George and Parramatta.

Im glad to hear that Bet Fred are paying more for their sponsorship, let’s hope we can get the CC, Test matches and the lower divisions sponsored again.

Ive become the profit of doom in this thread which is far from my usual position.

 

I can relate to so much of your recent posts, and I’m an optimist so if you are the prophet of doom than I may be your side kick. The world is continually evolving, the sports that survive and thrive in the future will be those that evolve too.

I also miss Lions Tours, and also Kangaroo tours to the Northern Hemisphere. They were occasions, and gave a little something to players who put their bodies on the line each week, the reward of tests against the best, or a tour down under could not be measured in monetary terms but provided a nice bonus to a career which is all too short. I agree that we appear to be in decline, however can we manage the decline to keep the sport alive in the long term, or will we lose control, sadly as Whippet says, I have no confidence in the leadership to provide the tools to help the sport get through the coming years. Like you I don’t advocate kicking anyone out, I am and always will be, a believer that league structures should be decided on the field, however I suspect that broadcast partners don’t think that way any more, they know what they want to cover and want it to look good to attract viewers. Our problem is we are totally dependent on TV revenue, so they get to hold the cards and call the shots.

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1 hour ago, Whippet13 said:

I completely agree the game is in managed decline however and something meaningful has to be done. Unfortunately the current management team are not inspiring confidence in me.

Me neither.

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Unfortunately,in todays world,it's a lot about perception.

If you were a major sponsor or broadcaster,would you want your name associated with semi derelict grounds,which frankly haven't seen any investment for 50 yrs and weren't suitable then.

Other sports have modernised,at best league has stood still or gone backwards. Someone needs to make some harsh decisions,which I accept may not work but standing still and playing games in fourth rate facilities will not bring much needed revenue into the game,either via broadcasters,sponsors or on match day.

I wish Wakefield well,at least they appear to be trying,whilst I've heard nothing from Castleford.

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2 hours ago, Gav Wilson said:

I don't think anyone disagrees with that statement.

Yet it seems to be tolerated? I'd at least  give lower league clubs some leeway but for clubs in our premier competition, constant excuses are not good enough. 

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3 hours ago, Johnoco said:

Yet it seems to be tolerated? I'd at least  give lower league clubs some leeway but for clubs in our premier competition, constant excuses are not good enough. 

I still maintain that Wakey are saying what they saying as that they have heard a rumour the criteria for Super League is changing and grounds are part of it so they are trying to buy time and maintain their Super League status, by trying to convince people they are serious about a revamp of Belle Vue  or a moving to a new ground. They have got away with for over 20 years and will continue to try and get away with it. My money would be on they will still be where they now in 4 years time.

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15 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

My money would be on they will still be where they now in 4 years time.

I dont know if you are a person who likes to bet. If you are,  i suspect you stay clear of outsiders and always back the favourite.👍

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41 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

I still maintain that Wakey are saying what they saying as that they have heard a rumour the criteria for Super League is changing and grounds are part of it so they are trying to buy time and maintain their Super League status, by trying to convince people they are serious about a revamp of Belle Vue  or a moving to a new ground. They have got away with for over 20 years and will continue to try and get away with it. My money would be on they will still be where they now in 4 years time.

Mate, have you even looked at the application? Theres far more detail than just a push on CGI images. It's certainly not a ruse, and if it doesnt come off it doesnt mean it wasnt a genuine attempt. The club need this to happen for it's own development more than staying in the top flight in a poor stadium. 

 

Time will tell, subject to planning, build is due to start next offseason so we don't have long to wait and see what happens.

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2 minutes ago, PREPOSTEROUS said:

Mate, have you even looked at the application? Theres far more detail than just a push on CGI images. It's certainly not a ruse, and if it doesnt come off it doesnt mean it wasnt a genuine attempt. The club need this to happen for it's own development more than staying in the top flight in a poor stadium. 

 

Time will tell, subject to planning, build is due to start next offseason so we don't have long to wait and see what happens.

Mate they have been promising this for over 20 years, It's not going to happen any time soon

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Just now, The Future is League said:

Mate they have been promising this for over 20 years, It's not going to happen any time soon

No we've had a number of schemes go south, largely due to the fact there was no finance to see it through. There is apparently for this, although I trust Yorkcourt about as far as i can throw them when it comes to delivering. Having said tfatvthis time its Henry Boot who may have a moral compass. You may be right and you can repeat ad nauseam about your sage like predictions, but you may just be wrong. 

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Just now, PREPOSTEROUS said:

No we've had a number of schemes go south, largely due to the fact there was no finance to see it through. There is apparently for this, although I trust Yorkcourt about as far as i can throw them when it comes to delivering. Having said tfatvthis time its Henry Boot who may have a moral compass. You may be right and you can repeat ad nauseam about your sage like predictions, but you may just be wrong. 

I might be wrong. but past history tell me I'm properly right.

No one would be more pleased to me than to see Wakey and Cas playing out of new stadiums, or totally refurbished stadiums, but i don't see it happening for either club in the foreseeable future.

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1 minute ago, The Future is League said:

I might be wrong. but past history tell me I'm properly right.

No one would be more pleased to me than to see Wakey and Cas playing out of new stadiums, or totally refurbished stadiums, but i don't see it happening for either club in the foreseeable future.

Wakey’s actually looks possible. I don’t know what Cas are gonna do cos there’s no way a new retail outlet is going to be built 

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