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Rugby League World Cup 2021 (Merged Threads)


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24 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

We can all read wikipedia.

The only thing in that post that I didn`t include was the one thing that I did read from Wikipedia. but already knew anyway. Everything I posted is common knowledge.

When V`landy`s was plucked from relative obscurity in 1988 to clean-up NSW Harness racing, a feat he not only achieved but turned into one of the richest racing clubs in Oz, through, get this, introducing several new income streams, the man he thwarted and had been largely held responsible for the down fall of Harness racing in this country, to the point where not a single meet wasn`t said to involve race fixing, was a character named George Freeman, he`s my cousin. 

 

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8 hours ago, Matterhorn said:

Its a real tough one, I can see arguments for both sides. Personally I think the next 2 runners up should be allowed in assuming aus/nz still said thanks but no thanks.

Remember they went through qualifying process.

I mean imagine if  Serbia got in & someone could convince Novak Djokovic publicy support them or say the 3 trbjojevic brothers get involved somehow.  Playing would be great. Don't know Manly would be enthusiastic but its up to the players to decide.

Or even South Africa don't know if they were close but it would mean Africa as a continent meaning yes we are a true World Cup with Europe/Asia/Pacific/Africa/Americas(USA) represented

 

The problem with inviting Serbia is that they would be completely reliant on the dozen or so dual nationals to be competitive. Without them, and I don't say this to knock Serbia who I have a lot of admiration for, they would really struggle. They struggled in the qualifiers to be fair. The only way you could do it is if they were guaranteed to have the dual nationals available.

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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7 minutes ago, iffleyox said:

But really, we're the 5/6th largest economy in the world (depending on which figures you use), there seem to be alternative options (as long as they're not stalking horses) - and while the country is keen for diversions, and we've got a strong interest in getting this tournament on for economic as well as prestige reasons (to say nothing of the political support given already), it would play politically very badly domestically to start shovelling UK taxpayers' cash to an Australian league in a sport most people don't care about in the middle of a pandemic.

There not going to be talking tens of millions, just whatever they can get, bit like what they got out of the QLD government.

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53 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

He might say that, but it sounds like they are already pretty well in place.

More likely given V`landy`s history if he knows the British Government are willing to fork out to make this tournament happen he will be looking to screw every last dollar out of them.

His regime (so far)

*  Took the bookmakers all the way to the High Court ( highest court in this country )  to extract higher fees from them to have the right to bet on horses in NSW. Won and earned Racing literally 100 x`s millions of dollars;

*  Tried a similar thing for League but settled for having higher fees for SOO and Finals. Settled and earned the NRL ~$10m/yr extra;

*   When the Equine flu threatened the racing industry extracted $235m from the Federal Gov`t.

*   When the NSW Gov`t canned plans to rebuild Olympic park extracted promises of 3 mini-Bankwest`s, first one to be announced soon , a $300m 30 000 seat stadium for Penrith;

*   $8m from Qld government to host SOO2;

*   Successfully lobbied the Federal Gov`t to pay a large proportion of Pacific islands Rugby League development programmes. 

The list goes on.

If past behaviour is any guide to future behaviour perhaps we can expect further concessions from both the British and Australian Governments before a green-light is given from the ARLC.

He is a very interesting character.  Clearly a very very astute player who will find any opportunity to drive a hard bargain.

You would have said a few years ago that having someone like this in the sport would be superb; on our side and fighting our corner.

Unfortunately, it seems like his 'side' is not the sport of Rugby League but the NRL and so his strengths are actually tearing the sport apart from the inside.  It may not be an issue for the NRL (yet) as they will see the benefits of his actions but the wider sport will suffer.  I don't suppose he will mind, the key is who will mind.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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Addo-Carr meets with Abdo:

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7361644/indigenous-stars-meet-abdo-on-world-cup/?cs=14274

It's thought an official call on whether it goes ahead this year could again be pushed back to next week, in a bid to properly canvas player opinion on its viability.

Addo-Carr has helped lead the charge for Indigenous and Maori sides to replace Australia and New Zealand in the end-of-season tournament, provided it goes ahead.

 
 

The Melbourne flyer met with NRL CEO Andrew Abdo this week to discuss the matter and is waiting for a response from league officials about the option.

It comes after the ARL Commission and NZRL deemed the tournament too much of safety and welfare risk during COVID-19 last week.

But Addo-Carr, Cody Walker and Latrell Mitchell are among those wanting to push ahead with the Indigenous team.

"We had a meeting with Andrew Abdo a couple of days ago and discussed potentially putting the Indigenous All Stars and Maori All Stars in the World Cup," Addo-Carr said.

"I'm just waiting to hear back from Andrew and the NRL to get that approved.

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If they changed their minds now, I'd be sorely tempted to say "Sorry, you're too late - we thought you werent coming so we've given your places to Tajikistan and the Faeroe Islands."

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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24 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

There not going to be talking tens of millions, just whatever they can get, bit like what they got out of the QLD government.

But RL's important in Queensland (and more importantly in Australia).

Pretty well anything they can get would be easy to dress up as 'UK government financially props up Australian sports league because they threw a tantrum' - I'm not sure the government can afford that politically domestically - *unless* any cash/assurances were followed through publicly in UK/Aus media with British government statements/mood music along the lines of 'we didn't understand the logic of their concerns when every other sport in the world seems to be carrying on, but we're very happy that giving them this relatively small amount of money seems to have made their concerns go away.'

Let public opinion do the rest.

Honestly, if this goes under, you'll care, I'll care, *some* people in the UK might care, but really when it comes down to it, this is a big fish from a small pond who deserves to discover he's out of his depth. 

Edited by iffleyox
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20 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Addo-Carr meets with Abdo:

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7361644/indigenous-stars-meet-abdo-on-world-cup/?cs=14274

It's thought an official call on whether it goes ahead this year could again be pushed back to next week, in a bid to properly canvas player opinion on its viability.

Addo-Carr has helped lead the charge for Indigenous and Maori sides to replace Australia and New Zealand in the end-of-season tournament, provided it goes ahead.

 
 

The Melbourne flyer met with NRL CEO Andrew Abdo this week to discuss the matter and is waiting for a response from league officials about the option.

It comes after the ARL Commission and NZRL deemed the tournament too much of safety and welfare risk during COVID-19 last week.

But Addo-Carr, Cody Walker and Latrell Mitchell are among those wanting to push ahead with the Indigenous team.

"We had a meeting with Andrew Abdo a couple of days ago and discussed potentially putting the Indigenous All Stars and Maori All Stars in the World Cup," Addo-Carr said.

"I'm just waiting to hear back from Andrew and the NRL to get that approved.

Surely if Indigenous sides can come over then Australia and New Zealand could.

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Correct me if I am wrong but isn't NZ Maori almost there test team bar a few - say Shaun Johnson

The side they put out early this year was pretty strong - the forward pack I can recall was massive + chuck in Kalyn Ponga. Wow not a bad side.

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1 minute ago, Mumby Magic said:

Surely if Indigenous sides can come over then Australia and New Zealand could.

Of course, but this is coming from a completely different direction.

ARL and NZRL = "the tournament is unsafe, the players are tired of living in bubbles and don't want to play and so for their own welfare we are withdrawing"

Indigenous players = "we really want to play"

Of course the ARL and NZRL player welfare line was just an excuse for the World Cup not to impact NRL 2022 and they thought they would be able to get away with it.  I hope they don't. 

"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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23 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Addo-Carr meets with Abdo:

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/story/7361644/indigenous-stars-meet-abdo-on-world-cup/?cs=14274

"We had a meeting with Andrew Abdo a couple of days ago and discussed potentially putting the Indigenous All Stars and Maori All Stars in the World Cup," Addo-Carr said.

"I'm just waiting to hear back from Andrew and the NRL to get that approved.

So more evidence it's the NRL/V'ladys calling the shots here and not the ARL/NZRL.

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The Foxx , Cody Walker and Latrell pushing the Indigenous cause . This is more than rugby to them as well . Interesting that because the official commissions have withdrawn their sides the clubs are under no obligation to release players …. Can you imagine if they did that for indigenous sides who have such good will and put their hand up to come ? It would be a PR nightmare. 

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27 minutes ago, Griff said:

If they changed their minds now, I'd be sorely tempted to say "Sorry, you're too late - we thought you werent coming so we've given your places to Tajikistan and the Faeroe Islands."

And we'd still lose! 😀

People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

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1 minute ago, DavidM said:

The Foxx , Cody Walker and Latrell pushing the Indigenous cause . This is more than rugby to them as well . Interesting that because the official commissions have withdrawn their sides the clubs are under no obligation to release players …. Can you imagine if they did that for indigenous sides who have such good will and put their hand up to come ? It would be a PR nightmare. 

i'm not sure how true that is.. if its an IRL sanctioned I understood that they had to release.. that is unless they all need "surgery" in the post season of course.

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Just now, RP London said:

i'm not sure how true that is.. if its an IRL sanctioned I understood that they had to release.. that is unless they all need "surgery" in the post season of course.

Probably right for Australia and NZ as they aren't participating. Not the case for those who can play for Tinga, Italy etc if their governing bodies are still participating.

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1 minute ago, GeordieSaint said:

Probably right for Australia and NZ as they aren't participating. Not the case for those who can play for Tinga, Italy etc if their governing bodies are still participating.

I'm not sure if it is about the bodies participating. My understanding was if chosen for a team for a game sanctioned by the IRL then you must release. So if the IRL sanction the indigenous sides then they have to release (same as the other nations). If they dont sanction a Tonga v Italy game (for example) they dont need to release no matter who is putting the game on, that is up to the players to sort out a release etc. 

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If all this pressure forces the ARLC to come back to the table then it will great for the tournament, assuming they do come over. The story of having the Maori and Indigenous teams replace them though is an equally, if not bigger story, and one that could be celebrated.

If the ARLC and NZRL do come back on board, then obviously it will have to be dressed up (as another previous post suggested) as certain measures now being met by the RLWC team etc etc.. to save face. Which is fine, as the game has to be the winner here.

But what this has done is shown the RL world their hand. And positive changes will have to be made in the governance of the International game to stop this happening again. If not, it's likely Australia will simply refuse to tour outside of their own back yard.

I don't think any of us truly believe the running of the International game has been done well, but as many of us have said on this thread, there are ways of doing things. I'm all for positive and progressive change, if done the right way. The Aussies just have to go about this the right way.

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14 minutes ago, JohnM said:

And we'd still lose! 😀

If ever the maxim that "it's not about winning, it's about taking part" was appropriate, it's now.

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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14 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Probably right for Australia and NZ as they aren't participating. Not the case for those who can play for Tinga, Italy etc if their governing bodies are still participating.

Yeh I reckon that’s it -

Ordinarily, clubs have a responsibility in their contracts and licence agreements with the NRL to make all players available for representative selection. 

However given both the ARL Commission and NZRL have pulled their teams from the tournament, that obligation will not remain with the clubs this year. 

In turn, it means clubs will have the power to not release their stars given the rate of COVID-19 infections in England. 

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I asked this question a while back - who is it that made this decision - was it the much-celebrated independent commission that runs the game in Oz? It's a genuine question, as I struggle with the governance structure there.

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3 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

They can, but the governing bodies just don't have the will to

The Indigenous sides putting hands up is the thing that will swing it.  Oz and NZ will come back in becuase it would be the height of farce for the players they would have been sending to go anyway repsenting the indigenous/maori teams - basically they end up creating a situation where they signal that playing for these teams means more than playing for Oz/NZ and they will hate that.

I hope I'm wrong as I think the WC with the indigenous/maori in it, in these circumstances, would be better than a WC with Oz/NZ and would be an incredible celebration of RL in the face of adversity.

Edited by FearTheVee
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Just now, FearTheVee said:

The Indigenous sides putting hands up is the thing that will swing it.  Oz and NZ will come back in becuase it would be the height of farce for the players they would have been sending to go anyway repsenting the indigenous/maori teams - basically they end up creating a situation where they signal that playing for these teams means more than playing for Oz/NZ and they will hate that.

What will swing it is the players saying they want to go and backing that up by telling their employers that they will not renew their contracts if they're not allowed to do so.

Whether that happens will show the strength of feeling amongst the players.

"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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