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Salford to move to Moor Lane?


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19 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

This is the whole point.

It's not because it's Salford, it's because we shouldn't have clubs in our supposedly elite division playing in such small grounds. And I'd say the same if it was Bradford moving to Bradford Park Avenue because it would be more packed than Odsal. 

I’m more bothered about the fact that Salford have been allowed to operate at this ‘elite level’ without running an academy. If this move allows them to consolidate themselves financially through increased revenues on match days etc and invest in an academy then that’s a massive plus. 

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6 minutes ago, Morris Wanchuk said:

I’m more bothered about the fact that Salford have been allowed to operate at this ‘elite level’ without running an academy. If this move allows them to consolidate themselves financially through increased revenues on match days etc and invest in an academy then that’s a massive plus. 

Wasn’t selected clubs given the go head for academies? 

Edited by Tabby
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4 minutes ago, Morris Wanchuk said:

I’m more bothered about the fact that Salford have been allowed to operate at this ‘elite level’ without running an academy. If this move allows them to consolidate themselves financially through increased revenues on match days etc and invest in an academy then that’s a massive plus. 

Ok let's not bother with any standards then. What's the point? All you have to do is ignore them and when it becomes an issue just say that you're definitely trying now because reasons A, B & C. Job done.

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3 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Ok let's not bother with any standards then. What's the point? All you have to do is ignore them and when it becomes an issue just say that you're definitely trying now because reasons A, B & C. Job done.

Problem Is there just isn’t enough clubs that are big enough to really meet the standards.

So you have Huddersfield playing in a lovely big stadium (standards box ticked). In reality they can’t come close to filling it, it’s way too big, looks rubbish on TV and has no atmosphere for paying fans.

Bournemouth played in the football Premier League recently. Tiny stadium for the sport with only 11,000 capacity. Nobody kicked-off that it was a disgrace to the sport.

Back to our sport and Salford potentially play at a 5,000 capacity neat little stadium that will be much more suited to our crowds, have a good atmosphere and look good on TV and everyone loses their mind.

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6 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Problem Is there just isn’t enough clubs that are big enough to really meet the standards.

So you have Huddersfield playing in a lovely big stadium (standards box ticked). In reality they can’t come close to filling it, it’s way too big, looks rubbish on TV and has no atmosphere for paying fans.

Bournemouth played in the football Premier League recently. Tiny stadium for the sport with only 11,000 capacity. Nobody kicked-off that it was a disgrace to the sport.

Back to our sport and Salford potentially play at a 5,000 capacity neat little stadium that will be much more suited to our crowds, have a good atmosphere and look good on TV and everyone loses their mind.

When it's just one club in twenty, it's not that big a deal and not noticeable. In fact, it's a bit of a novelty.

When it's several clubs out of twelve, it's a big issue.

I think the PL would be worried if a quarter of the league played in tiny grounds.

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12 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

When it's just one club in twenty, it's not that big a deal and not noticeable. In fact, it's a bit of a novelty.

When it's several clubs out of twelve, it's a big issue.

I think the PL would be worried if a quarter of the league played in tiny grounds.

We’re obsessed with the notion of tiny grounds. 

Sticking Salford, Huddersfield and Wakefield in big shiny new - and empty - grounds doesn’t solve anything.

We should be worried that a quarter of the clubs in our elite league are simply not big enough full stop - playing in tiny or oversized grounds doesn’t change that fact.

Edited by theswanmcr
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41 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Ok let's not bother with any standards then. What's the point? All you have to do is ignore them and when it becomes an issue just say that you're definitely trying now because reasons A, B & C. Job done.

It’s no good having clubs struggling financially in order to play out of shiny stadiums. Even Wigan and Hull are reported to be struggling with the agreements in place at their respective homes. The game isn’t in good health at present especially with the reduced TV income, but there is no reason it can’t prosper with some practical leadership. As an outsider it appears that this move has been forced on Salford but I hope in the long run it stabilises them.

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28 minutes ago, Morris Wanchuk said:

It’s no good having clubs struggling financially in order to play out of shiny stadiums. Even Wigan and Hull are reported to be struggling with the agreements in place at their respective homes. The game isn’t in good health at present especially with the reduced TV income, but there is no reason it can’t prosper with some practical leadership. As an outsider it appears that this move has been forced on Salford but I hope in the long run it stabilises them.

Then let's get Wigan to move to Orrell, Hull to Hull Ionians, Wakefield can go to Dewsbury and Huddersfield can move to Batley. Salford can go to Moor Lane.

We can pitch this to Sky and see if they want to bump the TV back to the previous mark of £40m per year? 

Edited by Scubby
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1 hour ago, theswanmcr said:

Problem Is there just isn’t enough clubs that are big enough to really meet the standards.

So you have Huddersfield playing in a lovely big stadium (standards box ticked). In reality they can’t come close to filling it, it’s way too big, looks rubbish on TV and has no atmosphere for paying fans.

Bournemouth played in the football Premier League recently. Tiny stadium for the sport with only 11,000 capacity. Nobody kicked-off that it was a disgrace to the sport.

Back to our sport and Salford potentially play at a 5,000 capacity neat little stadium that will be much more suited to our crowds, have a good atmosphere and look good on TV and everyone loses their mind.

Are Bournemouth planning to move to a smaller stadium any time soon? Is any elite division football team planning to downsize? St Johnstone V Hibs in a 3000 stadium would generate a good atmosphere and probably be a great event…..but it doesn’t scream elite level sport. 
 

You seem to assume that Salford will now be getting 5000 in a 5000 stadium  (or even close) when there’s little evidence to suggest they will get anything close to that. This move seems to have little to back it up apart from panic mode and a stroppy response about the AJ Bell being too big. Which to be fair, it is a bit cavernous. 😏

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23 minutes ago, Scubby said:

Then let's get Wigan to move to Orrell, Hull to Hull Ionians, Wakefield can go to Dewsbury and Huddersfield can move to Batley. Salford can go to Moor Lane.

We can pitch this to Sky and see if they want to bump the TV back to the previous mark of £40m per year? 

Of course they would mate - the grounds would be full and a better atmosphere. 

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1 hour ago, theswanmcr said:

We’re obsessed with the notion of tiny grounds. 

Sticking Salford, Huddersfield and Wakefield in big shiny new - and empty - grounds doesn’t solve anything.

We should be worried that a quarter of the clubs in our elite league are simply not big enough full stop - playing in tiny or oversized grounds doesn’t change that fact.

Again, you're missing the point I'm making.

The point isn't to put small clubs in big ground - it's to have big clubs in big grounds. 

Big clubs in small grounds isn't desirable. Small clubs in small grounds isn't either. The common factor is the small ground. At least in a big ground, there is potential to be a big club. A small ground is not going to make the biggest league bigger.

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2 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Again, you're missing the point I'm making.

The point isn't to put small clubs in big ground - it's to have big clubs in big grounds. 

Big clubs in small grounds isn't desirable. Small clubs in small grounds isn't either. The common factor is the small ground. At least in a big ground, there is potential to be a big club. A small ground is not going to make the biggest league bigger.

I think people are deliberately ignoring the fact that SL began in 1996 with the purpose of having an elite division with clubs growing and getting bigger.    After 25 years, having one of those clubs - regardless of who it is- playing in a 5K stadium is a failure. 
Some clubs have got new stadiums and expanded, some haven’t succeeded and some haven’t really tried.  But whatever, it clearly makes no difference.

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We need stadia appropriate to the size of the club. Huddersfield and other clubs were marked down for their stadia being too big relative to their support as one of the old licencing criteria and it is a genuine factor. 

There is very little for the sport to gain from clubs playing in vast empty stadia, in fact we know Sky specifically don't like it. Apart from some weird fetish amongst certain fans it's not something that should be encouraged because we can also be pretty certain that it dissuades people from attending too.

None of which is to say that clubs shouldn't be ambitious about growing their crowds. But they also need to be realistic about how important stadium layout and size and atmosphere is to people attending. And like it or not the A J Bell is a failure on several fronts.

I would expect Salford crowds to grow if and when they are playing in a ground which is more suitable to the size of their support. 

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9 hours ago, Morris Wanchuk said:

I’m more bothered about the fact that Salford have been allowed to operate at this ‘elite level’ without running an academy. If this move allows them to consolidate themselves financially through increased revenues on match days etc and invest in an academy then that’s a massive plus. 

It’s probably good that they didn’t, as the RFL would have denied them the right to have one last year anyway. Academies aren’t the be all and end all, if they’re supporting the community game that’s as good as imho. 

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8 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Again, you're missing the point I'm making.

The point isn't to put small clubs in big ground - it's to have big clubs in big grounds. 

Big clubs in small grounds isn't desirable. Small clubs in small grounds isn't either. The common factor is the small ground. At least in a big ground, there is potential to be a big club. A small ground is not going to make the biggest league bigger.

No I’m not missing the point - I’m saying exactly the same thing! Agree that we need big clubs in big grounds.

In reality Salford are not and probably never will be that - and my point is that this isn’t intrinsically their fault.

We are one of a number of clubs who are just not at the level of Leeds, Saints, Catalans etc. A big ground hasn’t helped us. So realistically you play at a ground at your level - if this means others overtake us then so be it eg Toulouse

 

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10 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

We’re obsessed with the notion of tiny grounds. 

Sticking Salford, Huddersfield and Wakefield in big shiny new - and empty - grounds doesn’t solve anything.

We should be worried that a quarter of the clubs in our elite league are simply not big enough full stop - playing in tiny or oversized grounds doesn’t change that fact.

It's not just grounds though, and there is just as much criticism of clubs with grounds that are too big. Let's face it, the AJ Bell isn't a big ground and looks fine with 5-6,000 people but Salford just did a poor job of filling it and could even get those crowds.

It really is the full package of what a club brings that people look at when clubs get criticised. That is why a club like Castleford doesn't get anywhere near the same criticism as those you cite despite playing in a poorer ground than Salford or Huddersfield. 

Edited by Damien
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8 hours ago, M j M said:

We need stadia appropriate to the size of the club. Huddersfield and other clubs were marked down for their stadia being too big relative to their support as one of the old licencing criteria and it is a genuine factor. 

There is very little for the sport to gain from clubs playing in vast empty stadia, in fact we know Sky specifically don't like it. Apart from some weird fetish amongst certain fans it's not something that should be encouraged because we can also be pretty certain that it dissuades people from attending too.

None of which is to say that clubs shouldn't be ambitious about growing their crowds. But they also need to be realistic about how important stadium layout and size and atmosphere is to people attending. And like it or not the A J Bell is a failure on several fronts.

I would expect Salford crowds to grow if and when they are playing in a ground which is more suitable to the size of their support. 

I agree, particularly on the Huddersfield point, but it is a challenge when we are highlighting that a 12k ground is too big for an SL club. 

I think the point is that that club should be too small for SL. 

I can see how this can work for Salford, and my view is that clubs live or die by their decisions but the biggest frustration for SL is that if they did get 5k averages they should really be right at the bottom end of the table and eventually ousted as other clubs overtake them, but we seem to struggle to get clubs to overtake the likes of Salford, Wakefield, Leigh etc. 

Hopefully Toulouse will be one, but as long as we have a really week bottom end I fear people will keep looking at 10 teams as a solution. 

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I agree, particularly on the Huddersfield point, but it is a challenge when we are highlighting that a 12k ground is too big for an SL club. 

I think the point is that that club should be too small for SL. 

I can see how this can work for Salford, and my view is that clubs live or die by their decisions but the biggest frustration for SL is that if they did get 5k averages they should really be right at the bottom end of the table and eventually ousted as other clubs overtake them, but we seem to struggle to get clubs to overtake the likes of Salford, Wakefield, Leigh etc. 

Hopefully Toulouse will be one, but as long as we have a really week bottom end I fear people will keep looking at 10 teams as a solution. 

Yeah exactly. It's not as if Salford played at the Etihad and had 3k rattling around in there. A 12K stadium is pretty modest and if a club can't even half fill it, then it's not out of order to ask why this consistently happens. 

Most of all though, as you point out, there should be other clubs waiting to knock them off their perch.... sadly there isn't. 

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10 hours ago, theswanmcr said:

Problem Is there just isn’t enough clubs that are big enough to really meet the standards.

So you have Huddersfield playing in a lovely big stadium (standards box ticked). In reality they can’t come close to filling it, it’s way too big, looks rubbish on TV and has no atmosphere for paying fans.

Bournemouth played in the football Premier League recently. Tiny stadium for the sport with only 11,000 capacity. Nobody kicked-off that it was a disgrace to the sport.

Back to our sport and Salford potentially play at a 5,000 capacity neat little stadium that will be much more suited to our crowds, have a good atmosphere and look good on TV and everyone loses their mind.

Huddersfield were not required to build a 25,000 seater stadium, it is too big for them, it’s probably a more suitable size for Huddersfield FC but I have no idea whether they fill it or not. But that still doesn’t change the fact that a 5000 capacity ground is too small for Super League.

I’m sure there were people on here saying York’s new stadium was too small for Super League and that holds 8500. A 12,000 capacity AJ Bell Stadium really shouldn’t be too big for a Super League club, if it is the answer is to increase crowds not decrease capacity by moving to a smaller stadium imo. 

Anyone who thinks Salford will be playing at a sold out capacity ground week in week out is deluded. Salford’s attendances will drop with this move. 

My opinion is they are preparing Salford to be a Championship club and cutting costs accordingly, obviously nobody at Salford is going to come out and say this while they are still in Super League.

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9 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

Yeah exactly. It's not as if Salford played at the Etihad and had 3k rattling around in there. A 12K stadium is pretty modest and if a club can't even half fill it, then it's not out of order to ask why this consistently happens. 

Most of all though, as you point out, there should be other clubs waiting to knock them off their perch.... sadly there isn't. 

But the salary cap doesn't help in that either. If a club like Leigh or Toulouse come up and want to spend big to build a better team than those towards the bottom of SL then they should be allowed to do so. The cream should be allowed to rise to the top. As is any club coming up has too many inherent disadvantages to overcome with the systems we have in place.

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11 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Huddersfield were not required to build a 25,000 seater stadium, it is too big for them, it’s probably a more suitable size for Huddersfield FC but I have no idea whether they fill it or not. But that still doesn’t change the fact that a 5000 capacity ground is too small for Super League.

I’m sure there were people on here saying York’s new stadium was too small for Super League and that holds 8500. A 12,000 capacity AJ Bell Stadium really shouldn’t be too big for a Super League club, if it is the answer is to increase crowds not decrease capacity by moving to a smaller stadium imo. 

Anyone who thinks Salford will be playing at a sold out capacity ground week in week out is deluded. Salford’s attendances will drop with this move. 

My opinion is they are preparing Salford to be a Championship club and cutting costs accordingly, obviously nobody at Salford is going to come out and say this while they are still in Super League.

I myself am not a Salford fan but you are probably right that Salford are preparing for life as a Championship club…or whatever it eventually becomes.

The fact is that Moor Lane is simply not a Super League stadium. And Salford will probably not week in week out fill that stadium,might be a full house if Wigan and St Helens play them but I think that will be about it.And in my opinion a small stadium with probably very limited scope for maximising income will see that their best players will simply get cherry picked by bigger clubs with bigger revenue avenues.

 And in the end they will simply not be able to sustain an elite Super League place.

 And let’s be Frank open and honest here.

Salford made their biggest mistake by letting The Willows go,especially when you see clubs like Wakefield and Castleford play in stadiums that frankly are appalling.They should have over say a 5-10 year period refurbished that stadium bit by bit.
 

 

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7 minutes ago, Robthegasman said:

ISalford made their biggest mistake by letting The Willows go,especially when you see clubs like Wakefield and Castleford play in stadiums that frankly are appalling.They should have over say a 5-10 year period refurbished that stadium bit by bit.
 

Talk about the benefit of hindsight!

Have said this before but here goes… RFL wanted minimum standards for SL - at the time everyone was looking at shiny new stadiums  to replace 100 year grounds. Salford we’re one of the first to start this - then money problems, Red City Developments going under and the troubles start. In the end we did get a new stadium though.

The likes of Cas and Wakey put a billion paper plans in, constantly get dispensation and are happily still today playing in their original delapidated grounds. Basically they got away with it and good luck to them for doing so.

Many things to bash Salford for - Koukash, academies etc - if you want but the stadium isn’t one of them. We tried to do the right thing and in the end it is those that did nothing that have come up smelling of (white) roses.

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10 minutes ago, theswanmcr said:

Talk about the benefit of hindsight!

Have said this before but here goes… RFL wanted minimum standards for SL - at the time everyone was looking at shiny new stadiums  to replace 100 year grounds. Salford we’re one of the first to start this - then money problems, Red City Developments going under and the troubles start. In the end we did get a new stadium though.

The likes of Cas and Wakey put a billion paper plans in, constantly get dispensation and are happily still today playing in their original delapidated grounds. Basically they got away with it and good luck to them for doing so.

Many things to bash Salford for - Koukash, academies etc - if you want but the stadium isn’t one of them. We tried to do the right thing and in the end it is those that did nothing that have come up smelling of (white) roses.

Well that certainly wasn't Salford's fault. They were trying to do the right thing and it has ended up costing them. 

But the fault here lies with the inconsistency in applying the rules, which is just totally RL.

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