Sylvain Houles says Toulouse should be exempt from relegation

[Snowys Backside]

11 hours ago, JohnM said:

their own back pockets. 

That set me wondering. Which greedy SL chairmen are currently lining their own back pockets?

 

 

The ones who have no intention of expanding the league to more than 12. 

I will let you decide which clubs come under that catagory but it has been discussed numerous times over the years now. Some spend the Sky money wisely. Some just 'Plateau' 

The 2x10 won't work. Leigh and Fev are in Limbo with Toulouse. Let them grow because their ambition will with overtake certain SL clubs, or wake them up which is only good for the competition. 

[Oxford]

26 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

Some spend the Sky money wisely. Some just 'Plateau' 

Now, I'm afraid there is little real evidence to say that any club spends wisely, or that the condition. stage, level, position or quality of each club is related to how or even how much they spend of the SC.

This is mostly because these two ideas are among the things used to bash the less successful ones.

Edited May 2, 2022 by Oxford

[JohnM]

11 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

The ones who have no intention of expanding the league to more than 12. 

I will let you decide which clubs come under that catagory but it has been discussed numerous times over the years now. Some spend the Sky money wisely. Some just 'Plateau' 

The 2x10 won't work. Leigh and Fev are in Limbo with Toulouse. Let them grow because their ambition will with overtake certain SL clubs, or wake them up which is only good for the competition. 

Not good enough though, is it. You made an accusation. Perhaps you could back it up.

[David Shepherd]

On 01/05/2022 at 12:27, Jughead said:

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/toulouse-super-league-relegation-exemption-23836517

This should rile some up on a Sunday afternoon. 

Shocked I tells you, shocked.

[Dave T]

3 hours ago, redjonn said:

I understand your comment but I can't get away from why we have non UK clubs in a UK league or is it a European league or Anglo French league.  If I knew what the real answer to what the RFL and SL think then I may better be able to argue the point.

The SL/RFL have decided to allow French teams in but penalise them by having to cover travel costs. I can understand for a semi-professional league as in the championship. 

Why don't they not allow French teams in.  Obviously two other clubs from UK could be in SL instead. Are we saying its because we find having French clubs more exciting... or whatever.   If their is a reason that our administrators think it adds to our league then we have a benefit so why have them paying travelling costs.

Again what do the RFL/SL think is the rational and hence benefit that UK league decided to have overseas clubs in the league.  I am asking about the original decisions and hence I assume they saw benefits... which brings me back as to why we penalise through travel costs if SL/RFL get  benefits - if so why don't RFL/SL contribute to their costs as they get benefits.

If the business case only makes sense with costs covered though, what then? 

[Snowys Backside]

2 hours ago, Oxford said:

Now, I'm afraid there is little real evidence to say that any club spends wisely, or that the condition. stage, level, position or quality of each club is related to how or even how much they spend of the SC.

This is mostly because these two ideas are among the things used to bash the less successful ones.

Not really, the Sky money should guarentee Academy sides and growth in the youth structure. 

Why doesn't it? 

Why do Saints, Leeds, Wigan have such a good production line? 

I'm still waiting for the development of Wheldon Rd and Belle View. 

You can take your choice because each gets the same cheque year after year. 

 

[Oxford]

29 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

Not really, the Sky money should guarentee Academy sides and growth in the youth structure. 

Why doesn't it? 

Why do Saints, Leeds, Wigan have such a good production line? 

I'm still waiting for the development of Wheldon Rd and Belle View. 

You can take your choice because each gets the same cheque year after year. 

 

First of all the Sky money needs to guarantee each clubs financial survival.

Secondly they have good production line for several reasons some of which have nothing to do with Sky monies.

You also cannot use academy as a criteria if some clubs are not allowed one.

Getting the same cheque means lots of  varied choices for different clubs and sometimes that means both survival year on year, for some it means trophies year on year because that's not all they have.

The history of RL and SL is littered with clubs who put trying to be like the top clubs ahead of financial security.

There are, of course a lot more things to this.

 

[Snowys Backside]

3 hours ago, Oxford said:

First of all the Sky money needs to guarantee each clubs financial survival.

Secondly they have good production line for several reasons some of which have nothing to do with Sky monies.

You also cannot use academy as a criteria if some clubs are not allowed one.

Getting the same cheque means lots of  varied choices for different clubs and sometimes that means both survival year on year, for some it means trophies year on year because that's not all they have.

The history of RL and SL is littered with clubs who put trying to be like the top clubs ahead of financial security.

There are, of course a lot more things to this.

 

The clubs are not at fault for the Academy but it should be cumpulsary. 

Some clubs though just want the cheque as their financial position is pants. 

Fresh blood required and the attendance boosts that go with it may fill a hole. 

[Oxford]

4 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:

The clubs are not at fault for the Academy but it should be cumpulsary. 

Some clubs though just want the cheque as their financial position is pants. 

Fresh blood required and the attendance boosts that go with it may fill a hole. 

Every SL side should have an academy side.

What is your evidence for some clubs only wanting the Cheque?

All SL sides financial position is pants.

Fresh blood is not any kind of guarantee for boosts for anything.

[Snowys Backside]

14 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Every SL side should have an academy side.

What is your evidence for some clubs only wanting the Cheque?

All SL sides financial position is pants.

Fresh blood is not any kind of guarantee for boosts for anything.

Move on Sir Kev. 

[redjonn]

6 hours ago, Dave T said:

If the business case only makes sense with costs covered though, what then? 

maybe but we are speculating.  For me the key is at the root, that is why allow non UK clubs into a UK league.   Not saying its a bad or good decision but that the decision must have been based on some criteria.

Unless I know the decision reasons its hard to comment but in my speculation it could have only been a "yes" decision if their was benefits. Whether that be purely to the UK league commercial advantages or to include building French RL to provide benefit ultimately to the game here.

Edited May 2, 2022 by redjonn

[Dallas Mead]

Should definitely be exempt from relegation, expand or die guys

[JohnM]

10 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

Not really, the Sky money should guarentee Academy sides and growth in the youth structure. 

Why doesn't it? 

Why do Saints, Leeds, Wigan have such a good production line? 

I'm still waiting for the development of Wheldon Rd and Belle View. 

You can take your choice because each gets the same cheque year after year. 

 

Development of Belle View is NEVER EVER going to happen, so no point in waiting.

Now , about these pocket-lining SL chairman you are unwilling or - more likely - unable to name.....

[Oxford]

9 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

Move on Sir Kev. 

Now, now Sleet's Rearend, if you haven't got any evidence or argument left, fess up!

Is any individual on here not aware of the parlous state of RL's budget and economy?

Does anyone posting not understand that every SL club needs an academy?

Does a single person writing their opinions on't forum not follow that these two things are not easy to marry up and particularly difficult at present?

Added to all this the criteria for being allowed an academy team have become an obstacle for clubs desperate to run one.

If this was just one of the criteria used to decide who's in SL and who isn't, some clubs would be out for that reason alone when it's the RFL's fault they don't have one.

The truth is the RFL couldn't  possibly have done a better job of ensuring the "haves" continue to have, even if that was their real intention.

Now back to Sylvain, T O should have been made exempt but they weren't and asking or deciding now would just alienate more fans from the sport from the club who'd take their place.

I don't trust the RFL not to decide exactly this, even at the last moment.

 

Edited May 3, 2022 by Oxford

[Cheadle Leyther]

The obvious solution is a 14 team Superleague with 26 home and away games plus magic weekend and no loop fixtures, while still retaining one up one down. However that would mean 1/14 share of the Sky money for each team rather than 1/12 which always seems to be a stumbling block. This always seems to overlook the benefits of having Leigh and Fev. in the top division. Think of all the derbies :- Fev v. Leeds, Cas, Wakefield, Huddersfield, and Leigh v.Saints, Wigan, Wire and Salford. With both teams having substantial away support, what a boost that would be for Superleague.

[steve oates]

On 01/05/2022 at 15:30, Dallas Mead said:

Totally agree. Needed for growth of the game, we’ve got enough economically deprived small towns in SL as it is, let’s not let Toulouse drop out to let another one in eh.

The solution to this situation which repeats and repeats is P & R every two years.

This is a serious option considered by Superleague and Lenegan himself a couple of years back.

Ambitious clubs with money find it a challenge they can overcome getting out of the Championship, but then they end up last in the queue for new players just when they are needed the most.

Essentially failing SL clubs are given an advantage and ambitious Championship clubs who have won through to SL a handicap, and there is a way it can be stopped and IMHO should be.......  

[DoubleD]

On 02/05/2022 at 16:34, Dave T said:

If the business case only makes sense with costs covered though, what then? 

And over what period do you calculate the business case for generating a return? So many variables here, but the RFL/SL have opened up a can of worms by setting different rules for some. Where does that stop? 

[Dave T]

42 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

And over what period do you calculate the business case for generating a return? So many variables here, but the RFL/SL have opened up a can of worms by setting different rules for some. Where does that stop? 

I think the biggest mistake was the whole "we'll agree it when you get promoted to SL" approach, which was caused by fragmented governance. 

I actually think the RFL was negligent, in just admitting teams into a structure without gaining agreements with SLE, it was burying their head in the sand. 

[StandOffHalf]

6 hours ago, Cheadle Leyther said:

The obvious solution is a 14 team Superleague with 26 home and away games plus magic weekend and no loop fixtures, while still retaining one up one down. However that would mean 1/14 share of the Sky money for each team rather than 1/12 which always seems to be a stumbling block. This always seems to overlook the benefits of having Leigh and Fev. in the top division. Think of all the derbies :- Fev v. Leeds, Cas, Wakefield, Huddersfield, and Leigh v.Saints, Wigan, Wire and Salford. With both teams having substantial away support, what a boost that would be for Superleague.

Totally agree. Well said.

[Snowys Backside]

12 hours ago, Oxford said:

Now, now Sleet's Rearend, if you haven't got any evidence or argument left, fess up!

Is any individual on here not aware of the parlous state of RL's budget and economy?

Does anyone posting not understand that every SL club needs an academy?

Does a single person writing their opinions on't forum not follow that these two things are not easy to marry up and particularly difficult at present?

Added to all this the criteria for being allowed an academy team have become an obstacle for clubs desperate to run one.

If this was just one of the criteria used to decide who's in SL and who isn't, some clubs would be out for that reason alone when it's the RFL's fault they don't have one.

The truth is the RFL couldn't  possibly have done a better job of ensuring the "haves" continue to have, even if that was their real intention.

Now back to Sylvain, T O should have been made exempt but they weren't and asking or deciding now would just alienate more fans from the sport from the club who'd take their place.

I don't trust the RFL not to decide exactly this, even at the last moment.

 

Kev,

 

Its a forum. I’m entitled to an opinion as are you. I respect yours. If you don’t respect mine, don’t reply. 
 

Why do I need evidence of something that’s been written down as perception on the broadsheets for the past 5 years ?  
 

Does it matter ?

[clogdance]

Super League has grown as much as it can, and expansion clubs are not the potential saviours. Cue the 'confused' emoji from Leigh Centurions admirer Davo5. 

[Oxford]

9 hours ago, Snowys Backside said:

Kev,

 

Its a forum. I’m entitled to an opinion as are you. I respect yours. If you don’t respect mine, don’t reply. 
 

Why do I need evidence of something that’s been written down as perception on the broadsheets for the past 5 years ?  
 

Does it matter ?

First and foremost please don't call me Kev and then imply I'm not respecting your opinion.

The press are the perfect example of writing a story (having an opinion) that has no connection with reality or the truth so they're hardly a reliable source of support.

On a social media forum all opinions matter.

But also on social media and in journalism too many things about opinions rest upon a lack of evidence and presumed guilt.

Lastly it was not just evidence it was the lack of real argument. In this you are not alone nor am I picking you out.

What you seem to have missed is what we agree on.

 

[Oxford]

Now the thing about relegation is the effect it has on everything. If you're a proponent of P&R and its importance to Championship sides with ambition and its place in British sporting culture there's a tendency to ignore all the side effects of relegation. Relegation means all sorts of things about the way coaches coach and their tenure aas well as how teams play that are negative but  it also means that sides can't have any long term goals and plans unless they're assured of being safe every season.

People are always looking for answers from other sports but it's never that clubs are certain about how to plan for the next decade where they find the solution.

 

[Tommygilf]

39 minutes ago, Oxford said:

Now the thing about relegation is the effect it has on everything. If you're a proponent of P&R and its importance to Championship sides with ambition and its place in British sporting culture there's a tendency to ignore all the side effects of relegation. Relegation means all sorts of things about the way coaches coach and their tenure aas well as how teams play that are negative but  it also means that sides can't have any long term goals and plans unless they're assured of being safe every season.

People are always looking for answers from other sports but it's never that clubs are certain about how to plan for the next decade where they find the solution.

 

It is rather ironic that the most ardent proposers for P&R are also often some of the most anti-football posters too.

[Harry Stottle]

50 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It is rather ironic that the most ardent proposers for P&R are also often some of the most anti-football posters too.

Tommy I absolutely fail to see what having a preference for P&R (me) in Rugby League has got to do with not caring to much about the round ball game, and this obsession some posters have (inc. you) with comparing this, that or t'other in Rugby League with a host different sports especially football.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Harry Stottle