Sat 9th Jul: SL-MW: St Helens v Wigan Warriors KO 16:45 (Sky)

[Harry Stottle]

32 minutes ago, Jughead said:

It’s as clear a red as any given out this year but “boo, fans will turn off”. 

 

When Singleton arm first moved to make contact it would have hit the ball carrier in his back, the ball carrier slips, moves or is knocked so his body goes in a downward motion towards the ground his head obviously has to follow his body and ends up in the contact area, Singleton could not avoid contact with the head, it was simply not his fault.

[Josef K]

49 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

it was a good game, I do wonder what game we’ve become when it becomes standard practice for someone to lie on the floor when uninjured. It certainly paid off for Sironen, Is he the real man Sironen’s son? It settled the game though, so I imagine we will see it in every game from now on. (And I do appreciate Fazz tried ineptly to milk an attack to the head as well.) it’s almost an anti rugby league tactic, 
 

As ever with Peetball, some absolutely superb attack on show. We are such a good team to watch this year.

I know what you mean #TheGameHasGoneSoft

#ImDoneWithTheGame  #SaintsAreCheats

 

[Jughead]

16 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

He has been a lucky lad, would Lam have been any different with Field and French performing as they have done all season, it was Lam who took both to Wigan but could never utilise them together, and of course he has Briers, O'Loughlin and Wane as 'ASSISTANTS'!

Even without a couple of players, I’m struggling to think of anything that justifies the “tactics” (and I say that in the loosest way possible) employed by Lam last year. 

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

When Singleton arm first moved to make contact it would have hit the ball carrier in his back, the ball carrier slips, moves or is knocked so his body goes in a downward motion towards the ground his head obviously has to follow his body and ends up in the contact area, Singleton could not avoid contact with the head, it was simply not his fault.

Same happened in the first game, Bretherton fell into the contact area of an aimed legal tackle, the defender gets penalised and TO score from it, these are game changing decision's by the officials and not warranted. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Jughead said:

Even without a couple of players, I’m struggling to think of anything that justifies the “tactics” (and I say that in the loosest way possible) employed by Lam last year. 

Take Field and French away and especially Field from early this season he was completely the difference from the Wigan team of last year.

[Damien]

21 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

He has been a lucky lad, would Lam have been any different with Field and French performing as they have done all season, it was Lam who took both to Wigan but could never utilise them together, and of course he has Briers, O'Loughlin and Wane as 'ASSISTANTS'!

No bias at all there Harry because Lam now coaches Leigh

I don't think any Wigan fan would agree with your assessment.

[Exiled Wiganer]

6 minutes ago, Josef K said:

I know what you mean #TheGameHasGoneSoft

#ImDoneWithTheGame  #SaintsAreCheats

 

To the victor the spoils. You’re entitled to win any which way you like. Had Farrell got away with his milking it, I wouldn’t have cared in the slightest. It worked for him, and them, so it was worth doing. If you love seeing it, good on ya. 

[dkw]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

No bias at all there Harry because Lam now coaches Leigh

I don't think any Wigan fan would agree with your assessment.

Seeing him vehemently defend Singleton, I'm trying desperately to get £100 on him signing for Leigh for next season 

[Josef K]

Just now, Exiled Wiganer said:

To the victor the spoils. You’re entitled to win any which way you like. Had Farrell got away with his milking it, I wouldn’t have cared in the slightest. It worked for him, and them, so it was worth doing. If you love seeing it, good on ya. 

Ya ?. 

[Jughead]

26 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Take Field and French away and especially Field from early this season he was completely the difference from the Wigan team of last year.

That happened. Bizarrely, Lam had his Wigan side playing some of the most tepid, dull and woeful rugby league I’ve seen in a number of years. There was little explanation for this.

[Harry Stottle]

53 minutes ago, Damien said:

No bias at all there Harry because Lam now coaches Leigh

I don't think any Wigan fan would agree with your assessment.

Maybe not, no bias at all in my assessment Damien just an observation, lots of the tries scored by both Field and French have been solo efforts or assisted by each other, I don't know how many tries Wigan have scored in total bit these two have recorded 28 of them, I honestly think Matty Peet has been in the right place at the right time and having these two along with his coaching staff has really been a leg up.

[Scubby]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

No bias at all there Harry because Lam now coaches Leigh

I don't think any Wigan fan would agree with your assessment.

Only Leigh scored fewer points than Wigan last year. And only 30 points fewer. That is how bad it was.

[Josef K]

I thought the sending off was harsh and a yellow card would’ve been enough. But im not an official and nor would i ever want to be with the abuse they receive off the fans. Saints need to sort out their goal kicking, it has been poor from game one.
Thankfully our defence is very good which is a big help when you’re missing so many goals. The Wigan back line is excellent and they’re exciting to watch, some Saints fans think Field is nothing special but i don’t know how they work that out. There is a long way to go in the season though and we have to play Wigan another 76 times. 

[meast]

2 hours ago, binosh said:

Be some gutted Wigan fans in that ground right now who thought that game was won!

 No sympathy from Huddersfield

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Scubby said:

Only Leigh scored fewer points than Wigan last year. And only 30 points fewer. That is how bad it was.

How long did it take you to look that up, sad really have you nothing better to do.

[hullste]

3 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

To the victor the spoils. You’re entitled to win any which way you like. Had Farrell got away with his milking it, I wouldn’t have cared in the slightest. It worked for him, and them, so it was worth doing. If you love seeing it, good on ya. 

I think Farrells were the definition of milking it. I don't think you can accuse Sironen of milking it, it was a bad shot- interesting how that was a red though and Napas last week was a yellow and McIllorum's was only a penalty. I think the refs have had new direction this week

[Chris22]

The gap between Saints and Wigan was huge last year and this year is small. I still think we are slightly better, but there's not much in it.

Thought both sides were poor in the first half. Wigan made lots of errors and we were poor in attack. I suppose that was offset by several outstanding tries in the second half.

Hopoate assured for us at full back today and Batchelor outstanding. His composure for the last try especially was superb. 

I'm not sure if the red card swung it or not. But a shoulder charge with direct contact with the head has been a red card for the last decade now. Reckless and avoidable by Singleton.

We are without our first three choice kickers, so I can forgive the missed conversions. But I think it was wrong to put the responsibility on Bennison. He has never been a regular goalkeeper (I believe) and a senior player like Lomax should have taken the responsibility.

I suspect we may see these sides in the Grand Final, unless something unexpected happens.

[Jim Prendle]

11 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

He has been a lucky lad, would Lam have been any different with Field and French performing as they have done all season, it was Lam who took both to Wigan but could never utilise them together, and of course he has Briers, O'Loughlin and Wane as 'ASSISTANTS'!

Sorry mate but that’s nonsense.

Lam was the most negative coach I have ever seen at Wigan.

[gingerjon]

10 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

To the victor the spoils. You’re entitled to win any which way you like. Had Farrell got away with his milking it, I wouldn’t have cared in the slightest. It worked for him, and them, so it was worth doing. If you love seeing it, good on ya. 

 

[Old Frightful]

Quite enjoyed the game, always had an idea that Saints would win, even after Field’s intervention. Felt that Donaldson was sent off for his reputation rather than his actions, yellow would have sufficed for me.

As regards players feigning injury, it seems to be very prevalent in our game now and I can’t see anyway back. It’s a professional sport and the canny coaches will use whatever they can to gain advantage. The vast majority of our players have massive mutual respect for each other, you would hope that that would be enough to stop this annoying trait but also you can’t help but know that human nature tells you that it won’t.

 

[wiganermike]

15 hours ago, andyscoot said:

At least the Saints one is a charity one. Wigan isn't even their away one.

Wigan's pink kit is a charity one too (Cancer Research). It has been used 3 or 4 times this season.

[EagleEyePie]

The only way to stop players feigning injury and staying down long enough that the video ref is forced to see a replay is to go back to the way it used to be and stop the video ref from having any input. That's the only thing that will stop it.

The protocols don't really give the ref much leeway. If a player stays down he has to stop play and then if he gets the instruction from the video ref he can't really ignore it. He also can't second guess what is or isn't a feigned injury. I've seen countless seemingly minor knocks to the head result in players failing concussion assessments and also some players return from nasty collisions. 

From the perspective of a fan it's frustrating. You want the sport to always be tough and you don't want to see the game end up like football where play acting is part of the game.

On the other hand if I was a player the only thing that matters is winning the game and doing what's best for the team. If you're 2 points down and someone commits what you know is foul play you're potentially ruining your teams chances by getting up and brushing it off. The team comes first.

It doesn't really matter what the rule is, if it exists then players will always look for ways to exploit it. Stripping the ball when you're confident officials are unsighted, trapping defenders to win penalties, it's all an extension of the same thing - that players will do whatever they can get away with in order to win and to get the decisions.

Refs need to stick with their decisions and not be influenced by players staying down. In terms of video refs, the game has to weigh up what's more important - them having an input to rectify instances of foul play that may have been missed, or reducing instances of players staying down in the hope of winning penalties.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Old Frightful said:

Felt that Donaldson was sent off for his reputation

Is that because he once played for KR, Rob?

[Harry Stottle]

36 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

The only way to stop players feigning injury and staying down long enough that the video ref is forced to see a replay is to go back to the way it used to be and stop the video ref from having any input. That's the only thing that will stop it.

The protocols don't really give the ref much leeway. If a player stays down he has to stop play and then if he gets the instruction from the video ref he can't really ignore it. He also can't second guess what is or isn't a feigned injury. I've seen countless seemingly minor knocks to the head result in players failing concussion assessments and also some players return from nasty collisions. 

From the perspective of a fan it's frustrating. You want the sport to always be tough and you don't want to see the game end up like football where play acting is part of the game.

On the other hand if I was a player the only thing that matters is winning the game and doing what's best for the team. If you're 2 points down and someone commits what you know is foul play you're potentially ruining your teams chances by getting up and brushing it off. The team comes first.

It doesn't really matter what the rule is, if it exists then players will always look for ways to exploit it. Stripping the ball when you're confident officials are unsighted, trapping defenders to win penalties, it's all an extension of the same thing - that players will do whatever they can get away with in order to win and to get the decisions.

Refs need to stick with their decisions and not be influenced by players staying down. In terms of video refs, the game has to weigh up what's more important - them having an input to rectify instances of foul play that may have been missed, or reducing instances of players staying down in the hope of winning penalties.

In other words, both the on-field and video refs have to make a judgement on who is a cheat or not?

There was a time when I used to argue with my 'football' loving mates that in their game the player's spent most of the time feigning injury to influence the ref and gain penalties and conversely RL player's tried not to show the opposition that they were hurting as the result of a tackle as it would display a sign of weakness, sadly in this modern era that argument no longer applies the cheating aspect is as prevalent in RL as it has ever been in football.

And just as an observation it mostly started the more the game's governing body developed rules that were designed to 'sanitise' it, there is a lot more player's can do to try to influence the ref(s).

Edited July 10, 2022 by Harry Stottle

[Griff]

18 hours ago, Barry Badrinath said:

Does bateman not put him onside there?

I thought that.