England Vs Samoa - Your Team

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, MattSantos said:

STOP BEING OPTIMISTIC. I CAN'T COPE!!

 

And I haven't even posted in the RLWC Positivity Thread yet!

[Tex Evans Thigh]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

While I think there is no doubt that the pack members you list were all quality, there are some positives in 2022.  Walmsley is a big miss but we have to cope without him.

Tom Burgess is a better and more mature player than he was in 2017 and has been leading the Souths pack for a couple of years now and was probably the best middle forward in last years Grand Final.

Luke Thompson is probably at the height of his career and something to prove - I think he will have a big World Cup.

While players like Farnworth and Young may grab headlines, I think Mikolaj Oledzki could be the emrging England player in this tournament.  I think he is a very good prop - big, mobile and an outstanding defender.

Those three are the tip quality for me and Hill, Lees and Cooper can do a job as well.  

Plus we have two very good 13's in Knowles and Radley and edge options in Batchelor, McMeeken, Whitehead and Bateman actually on the edge rather than in the centre where he belongs.

Dont disagree but I'd take the 2017 pack over this one in a heartbeat, particularly if we're including hookers.

[Damien]

43 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

I think England are stronger. Yes, Burgess, Roby and Graham are not there. But our backs are better (and have pace!), especially the halves and the pack is solid with some excellent talent and experience. 

So do I. I think the backs are substantially better. I don't think the forwards are even as bad as some are making out. In 2017 we had Ben Currie in the second row and Heighington on the bench. I think even James Graham was past his best at that stage too. For me there is only Burgess and Roby as the standouts that would improve things. I think there is a lot to be excited about with the forwards in this England team.

[graveyard johnny]

notice Australia have already named their team for sat - confidently resting the panthers and eels players - when will our team be announced or will we look to be dithering already? NRL 2022: Rugby League World Cup, teams, Australia vs Fiji, Kangaroos, who plays halfback, Daly Cherry-Evans (foxsports.com.au)

 

 

Edited October 11, 2022 by graveyard johnny

[Tex Evans Thigh]

57 minutes ago, Damien said:

So do I. I think the backs are substantially better. I don't think the forwards are even as bad as some are making out. In 2017 we had Ben Currie in the second row and Heighington on the bench. I think even James Graham was past his best at that stage too. For me there is only Burgess and Roby as the standouts that would improve things. I think there is a lot to be excited about with the forwards in this England team.

O'Loughlin was world class and we really suffered when he didnt play, even though he too was back end of his career.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

O'Loughlin was world class and we really suffered when he didnt play, even though he too was back end of his career.

I was referring to the final team. O'Loughlin was indeed world class though.

[StandOffHalf]

3 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

There was a period for St George about 4 or 5 years ago where he was unplayable and arguably the best player in the world, certainly best in his position. There's a lot of negativity towards Widdop, perhaps because he didn't hit the heights with England all the time but he was far from poor. He was very good when moved to full back in 2017 and really got our attack going once he slotted in there. 

I'd rather have 2017 Widdop at FB than current Tomkins. I'd rather have Welsby than both.

Nicely said, Tex. 

[UTK]

4 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

There was a period for St George about 4 or 5 years ago where he was unplayable and arguably the best player in the world, certainly best in his position. There's a lot of negativity towards Widdop, perhaps because he didn't hit the heights with England all the time but he was far from poor. He was very good when moved to full back in 2017 and really got our attack going once he slotted in there. 

I'd rather have 2017 Widdop at FB than current Tomkins. I'd rather have Welsby than both.

Just by coincidence I saw the 2017 SF highlights between England and Tonga pop up on my feed on Youtube yesterday so I had a look at them, England don't even get a sniff at the final if Widdop isn't playing. 

He created every single one of Englands points, a couple of times where he had absolutely no right to and made a handful of brilliant defensive saves that kept Tonga at bay early before the frontline got overrun late in the game - highly recommend everyone goes and watches it because it really was a special performance. 

 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

6 minutes ago, UTK said:

Just by coincidence I saw the 2017 SF highlights between England and Tonga pop up on my feed on Youtube yesterday so I had a look at them, England don't even get a sniff at the final if Widdop isn't playing. 

He created every single one of Englands points, a couple of times where he had absolutely no right to and made a handful of brilliant defensive saves that kept Tonga at bay early before the frontline got overrun late in the game - highly recommend everyone goes and watches it because it really was a special performance. 

 

There's a definite recency bias when people talk about Widdop. I can clearly recall in 2017 we looked really disjointed in attack until he went to full back and we kicked on from there. He was another genuinely world class player, just maybe wasn't as consistent for England as he could have been.

[Damien]

21 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

There's a definite recency bias when people talk about Widdop. I can clearly recall in 2017 we looked really disjointed in attack until he went to full back and we kicked on from there. He was another genuinely world class player, just maybe wasn't as consistent for England as he could have been.

A genuinely world class player would be consistent. Widdop was better at full back in 2017 but the vast majority of his England games prior to that were at stand off and he was average to say the least.

[Mojo]

43 minutes ago, UTK said:

Just by coincidence I saw the 2017 SF highlights between England and Tonga pop up on my feed on Youtube yesterday so I had a look at them, England don't even get a sniff at the final if Widdop isn't playing. 

He created every single one of Englands points, a couple of times where he had absolutely no right to and made a handful of brilliant defensive saves that kept Tonga at bay early before the frontline got overrun late in the game - highly recommend everyone goes and watches it because it really was a special performance. 

 

I was just about to say this. I watched the full game last night and Widdop was outstanding in that game at fullback

[The Rocket]

9 hours ago, Mojo said:

You can't wait until this weekend to find out? Literally everyone knows this samoan teams the best team they've ever assembled. You keep going to the past and comparing teams. Leilua and Lafai we're way past there prime. Seve (a center) was in the halves with Luai. Mulitalo was 18 years old and he was nowhere near the player he is now. Tino was also another 18 year old starting his career. So most of those young players who are stars now weren't playing at the high level like they are now. Stop looking at the past teams to compare and look at the current players and how they're performing in the nrl level now. Most of those if not all are elite talent now in the nrl.

I think a massive difference with this WC is that these Island teams are coming into it with the genuine belief that they can win, unlike previous tournaments where they probably knew they were only making up numbers and also on holiday with their mates, a fatal combination.

This time they are riding the wave of this cultural identity pride phenomenon that is sweeping the world, amplified by the recognition of how good the Pacific Islanders are at Rugby League ( > 50% of NRL players; absolutely dominating in the junior ranks coming through ) - a deadly combination.

These blokes have nothing to lose and everything to gain, watch as they steamroll other teams early and then tear them to shreds after that.

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I think a massive difference with this WC is that these Island teams are coming into it with the genuine belief that they can win, unlike previous tournaments where they probably knew they were only making up numbers and also on holiday with their mates, a fatal combination.

This time they are riding the wave of this cultural identity pride phenomenon that is sweeping the world, amplified by the recognition of how good the Pacific Islanders are at Rugby League ( > 50% of NRL players; absolutely dominating in the junior ranks coming through ) - a deadly combination.

These blokes have nothing to lose and everything to gain, watch as they steamroll other teams early and then tear them to shreds after that.

Tonga have proved to everyone that Australia and NZ (and GB) are very beatable. If they can do it then it gives Samoa the confidence that it is possible. Players for these teams have won NRL Grand Finals and have nothing to fear, they know they are as good or better than any player they face.

It's all quite different from the days when teams were beaten against Australia before they even stepped foot on the field.

[Mojo]

18 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I think a massive difference with this WC is that these Island teams are coming into it with the genuine belief that they can win, unlike previous tournaments where they probably knew they were only making up numbers and also on holiday with their mates, a fatal combination.

This time they are riding the wave of this cultural identity pride phenomenon that is sweeping the world, amplified by the recognition of how good the Pacific Islanders are at Rugby League ( > 50% of NRL players; absolutely dominating in the junior ranks coming through ) - a deadly combination.

These blokes have nothing to lose and everything to gain, watch as they steamroll other teams early and then tear them to shreds after that.

Well said. Just by looking at the Samoan teams social media page. They look absolutely focused and they aren't taking this for granted. It's a very different vibe to the previous world cup. If they live up to that team list on paper it'll definitely be a scary samoan team this weekend. I'm picking Suaali'i to be the dark horse player of the tournament. He's finally able to train fulltime at fullback and I can't wait to see him show his potential. I know for sure if Suaali'i plays awesome at fullback every roosters fan are gonna be nervous because I don't think they'll be able to keep in the roosters jersey next year lol 

[Balmain1969]

[Mojo]

2 minutes ago, Balmain1969 said:

That's a fan made team. The official line up isn't up yet

[Just Browny]

I'm glad people have made the points about how good Widdop was in the second phase of his England career. In his first few years he definitely went in the same bucket as Josh Hodgson and was rubbish. But at full back he was absolutely top class and a star of the 2017 World Cup.

[SydneyRoosters]

10 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I'm glad people have made the points about how good Widdop was in the second phase of his England career. In his first few years he definitely went in the same bucket as Josh Hodgson and was rubbish. But at full back he was absolutely top class and a star of the 2017 World Cup.

He was a star in 2017 as a whole. Finished 3rd in the dally M medal and lead he’s country to the World Cup final, what a season he had.

Edited October 12, 2022 by SydneyRoosters

[Just Browny]

3 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

He was a star in 2017 as a whole. Finished 3rd in the dally M medal and lead he’s country to the World Cup final, what a season he had.

Aye. When I saw him in the NRL he was always good, it was with England where it took him a while to make an impact.

[The Rocket]

28 minutes ago, SydneyRoosters said:

He was a star in 2017 as a whole. Finished 3rd in the dally M medal and lead he’s country to the World Cup final, what a season he had.

I`m a St. George supporter and no johnny-come-lately on the Gareth Widdop popularity stakes. 

People refer to player`s having class, Widdop oozed class and you could have played him anywhere in the backline and he would have been a star. I was a big fan.

[FearTheVee]

Fair enough - I need to watch the 2017 games back as I’ve been consistently underwhelmed by him in an England shirt.

Very happy to defer to those with better memories but not a player I thought was in any way consistently good for England.  That’s not a comment on his NRL career.

[JonM]

11 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I think a massive difference with this WC is that these Island teams are coming into it with the genuine belief that they can win, unlike previous tournaments where they probably knew they were only making up numbers and also on holiday with their mates, a fatal combination.

This time they are riding the wave of this cultural identity pride phenomenon that is sweeping the world, amplified by the recognition of how good the Pacific Islanders are at Rugby League ( > 50% of NRL players; absolutely dominating in the junior ranks coming through ) - a deadly combination.

I think you're absolutely right here, but I wonder how quickly they'll come together as a team. They've had a bit over a week of training together here, and an opposed session with Ireland at Castleford yesterday. A lot of late joiners in the squad - it's not like they've been getting together over the course of the year either.

[Davo5]

4 hours ago, SydneyRoosters said:

He was a star in 2017 as a whole. Finished 3rd in the dally M medal and lead he’s country to the World Cup final, what a season he had.

That’s stretching it,yes he had a good season in the NRL but wasn’t he moved from halfback after a couple of pretty average England WC games.

[Damien]

15 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

That’s stretching it,yes he had a good season in the NRL but wasn’t he moved from halfback after a couple of pretty average England WC games.

Yes, there is some revisionism going on. He was shifted to full back during the poor Lebanon match with Williams coming on in the halves. He then stayed at full back for the final group game against France and subsequent knock out games. He did play much better from full back but ultimately that's 3 games out of 29 for England.

[Davo5]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Yes, there is some revisionism going on. He was shifted to full back during the poor Lebanon match with Williams coming on in the halves. He then stayed at full back for the final group game against France and subsequent knock out games. He did play much better from full back but ultimately that's 3 games out of 29 for England.

Losing your halfback place to the likes of Luke Gale & Kev Brown tells its own story on his status,I agree he was better at fullback in that campaign but he hardly led us to the final.