England Vs Samoa - Your Team

[WN83]

The Grand Final lads in the Samoa team only arrived last night I think, so they don’t have much time to get acclimatised and to get over jet lag before they’re in to the game. It feels like the game is one we’d love to win, if anything just to build confidence for if/when we play them again. Advantages like them maybe not being fully acclimatised or being a bit leggy won’t be there come Semi Final time (if they were to meet again). 

[Dunbar]

24 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

I bet he’s top in the stats for head rubbing and third man flops. 

Luai is the second most penalised player in the NRL this year with only Nelson Asofa-Solomona more penalised.  But Asofa-Solomona played more games and so Luai concedes more penalties per game.

[Neutralfan7]

1. Tomkins, 2. Makinson, 3. Farnworth 4. Watkins, 5. Young 6. Welsby, 7. Williams. 8. Oldeski, 9. McIllorum, 10. Thompson, 11. Whitehead, 12. Bateman, 13. Radley SUBS Ackers, Batchelor, Knowles, Burgess

Toss up between Welsby/Sneyd. I think Welsby got to go somewhere due to his ability to play different positions.

[ghost crayfish]

I'm struggling with the right make up for the England bench. Has Morgan Knowles played much edge back row (2nd row), and could he cover that position if one of the starters was injured? I've gone for him as the third bench forward assuming he can cover that spot, but I am not sure if he ever actually has played that edge role... 

Along with two props, I think the bench needs someone who can cover middle or edge forward roles, and someone who can play 9 and also cover the halves. Therefore, I'm also going for Welsby on the bench to play some dummy half, as well as providing backline cover.

1. Tomkins 2. Makinson 3. Farnworth 4. Watkins 5. Young 6. Williams 7. Sneyd 8. Thompson 9. Ackers 10. Hill 11. Whitehead 12. McMeeken 13. Radley 14. Welsby 15. Knowles 16. Oledzki 17. Burgess

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

9 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

I'm struggling with the right make up for the England bench. Has Morgan Knowles played much edge back row (2nd row), and could he cover that position if one of the starters was injured? I've gone for him as the third bench forward assuming he can cover that spot, but I am not sure if he ever actually has played that edge role... 

Along with two props, I think the bench needs someone who can cover middle or edge forward roles, and someone who can play 9 and also cover the halves. Therefore, I'm also going for Welsby on the bench to play some dummy half, as well as providing backline cover.

1. Tomkins 2. Makinson 3. Farnworth 4. Watkins 5. Young 6. Williams 7. Sneyd 8. Thompson 9. Ackers 10. Hill 11. Whitehead 12. McMeeken 13. Radley 14. Welsby 15. Knowles 16. Oledzki 17. Burgess

I fear Tomkins will start over Welsby too...madness 

[WN83]

2 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I fear Tomkins will start over Welsby too...madness 

Welsby seemed to have his minutes limited on Friday, so I'm confident he'll start but probably in the halves. I think it'll be Sneyd who will either miss out or be on the bench. If it's a dry track, I don't have too many issues with that. 

[Dunbar]

I think he have to get Welsby on the pitch - and for 80 minutes.  He is a fantastic attacking player and is full of energy.

I would personally play him at 1 with Williams and Sneyd in the halves, although that is a tight call.

If Wane goes with a fit Tomkins, which you would fully expect as he is captain, I would put Welsby at 6 alongside Sneyd as I think he offers much more of an attacking threat than Williams and we need the kicking game that Sneyd offers.

[WN83]

Just now, Dunbar said:

I think he have to get Welsby on the pitch - and for 80 minutes.  He is a fantastic attacking player and is full of energy.

I would personally play him at 1 with Williams and Sneyd in the halves, although that is a tight call.

If Wane goes with a fit Tomkins, which you would fully expect as he is captain, I would put Welsby at 6 alongside Sneyd as I think he offers much more of an attacking threat than Williams and we need the kicking game that Sneyd offers.

I like Williams as a bench option because he can cover 9 as well, as he did in his early days at Wigan. I think it's a position he actually would've excelled in had he played more games there. 

There's no doubt in my mind Welsby needs to play 80 minutes. I don't think Wane is as daft as some people seem to think and I fully expect Welsby to start (I'm just not sure where). 

[sweaty craiq]

4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I think he have to get Welsby on the pitch - and for 80 minutes.  He is a fantastic attacking player and is full of energy.

I would personally play him at 1 with Williams and Sneyd in the halves, although that is a tight call.

If Wane goes with a fit Tomkins, which you would fully expect as he is captain, I would put Welsby at 6 alongside Sneyd as I think he offers much more of an attacking threat than Williams and we need the kicking game that Sneyd offers.

Williams looked like he knew what was expected of him (confidence) and wanted to play for Wane v Fiji, I cant see how you change that Right side. With Viktor at 13 he will run with 1 hooker - Ackers for me - and Hill did enough to get a grunt spot and has the size that will be needed

[Saint Toppy]

On 09/10/2022 at 04:02, Mojo said:

Since I'm Samoan and seeing all the strong English line ups I'll put up my samoan prediction squad

1 Joseph Suaali'i- Pretty obvious he'll be the starting fullback. I think he'll slot right in with the Panthers boys and do well. Pretty much everyone who watches the NRL will be keeping an eye on him especially to see if he lives up to the hype.

2 Tylan May- Similar to Brian To'o has a very big engine to run over 15 hit ups a game. Doesn't shy away from contact and I'm looking forward to his battle with Dominic Young.

3 Izack Tago- Another young prospect from the panthers. Did very well in his debut season in the nrl and didn't shy away from the big occasion. Also another exciting match up against Farnworth.

4 Stephen Crichton- One of the smartest and safest Center in the Nrl. His main strengths is Defense. Reads the game well on the defensive and offensive end. And threatening when competing for the high kicks on attack.

5 Brian To’o- The best winger in the Nrl without a doubt. Combination with Stephen Critchon will be crucial against England. Has the ability to break the whole game open on the wing and dominate.

6 Jarome Luai- Panthers left side edge has been the most dominant edge for the last 2 years in the nrl and that's thanks to Jarome Luai's footwork, vision and kicking game. He's always judged because he's next to Cleary, the best halfback in the world but now it's his chance to prove that he can shine without being in Clearys shadow.

7 Anthony Milford- Has a underrated kicking game and the leader of this team. Samoa needs him to be at his best to have any chance to beat England.

8 Junior Paulo- Would've slotted in the kangaroos starting line up easily. Very strong ball runner and on his day can be the best prop in the world.

9 Danny Levi- Playing in the SL will give the samoan forward pack some insight on what to expect. Has a good passing game and good vision.

10 Josh Papali'i- Another one that would've made the the kangaroos squad. Has huge experience in big matches and has played alot of games with junior paulo in the samoan team.

11 Kelma Tuilagi- Started off with a bang for the Tigers at the start of the season and he was their best player. But than dropped off form in the 2nd half of the season that probably came down to the Tigers management letting players go during the season and ruined any chemistry the tigers had left. He should do well and has the ability to do what kikau did on the left edge for the samoan team running off Luai.

12 Jayd'n Sua- A very strong defensive player. Who's also good on the offensive end. Played Origin last year and he was in the Rabbitohs squad that made the grand final against the Panthers last year.

13 Martin Taupau- Played at lock for the Kiwis in the past so has a lot experience. Also played lock when Aloiai came off injured against the cook islands and was the best forward in that game. Needs to be at his best for samoa to have a chance against England.

14 Tyrone May- I can see Taupau going hard for 25 mins and than they put May on at lock to play the playmaking type style at the back to spread the ball to the backline. Another Panthers player that was part of the title win last season. Knows Luai's game more than anyone in that forward pack.

15 Josh Aloiai- Strong ball runner and was one of Manlys best forward this season.

16 Spencer Leniu- Probably the best impact player off the bench in the nrl. Damaging ball runner and brings alot of energy off the bench.

17 Braden Hamlin-Uele- Very underrated prop. Has a big engine to make 30+ tackles and run all day. Will be the key on the defensive end against the big English pack early in that 2nd half.

If that's the Samoan's team then i'd be disappointed if England didn't win comfortably. Aside from Papali'i and Leniu I don't rate that pack at all. For me Paolo is the most over-rated prop in the NRL, rarely runs his weight and goes down far too easily for such a big guy. Tuilagi & Sua work hard but aren't anything special and Tapau is well past his best.

Their backs could cause some problems for England if given too much space but those Penrith guys thrive off the back of the dominance of the Penrith forwards and the quick PTB's they get, and Luai is quick to lose his head when he's not getting things his own way. Queensland showed if you dont give him the space to run he's more headless chicken than match winner.

[GeordieSaint]

10 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

1. Tomkins 2. Makinson 3. Farnworth 4. Watkins 5. Young 6. Williams 7. Sneyd 8. Thompson 9. Ackers 10. Hill 11. Whitehead 12. McMeeken 13. Radley 14. Welsby 15. Knowles 16. Oledzki 17. Burgess

That’s the team I expect to play but with the two wingers and centres swapping numbers - Young and Watkins will play right side. 

[MattSantos]

Dunbar et al have articulated it better than me, but i really fancy us on Saturday.

This could be hope dominating rational thought as ive not watched Superleague at all, but i've watched nearly all the NRL and i'm confident in my assessment that a lot of that Samoa team are overrated.

 

 

[Mojo]

42 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

If that's the Samoan's team then i'd be disappointed if England didn't win comfortably. Aside from Papali'i and Leniu I don't rate that pack at all. For me Paolo is the most over-rated prop in the NRL, rarely runs his weight and goes down far too easily for such a big guy. Tuilagi & Sua work hard but aren't anything special and Tapau is well past his best.

Their backs could cause some problems for England if given too much space but those Penrith guys thrive off the back of the dominance of the Penrith forwards and the quick PTB's they get, and Luai is quick to lose his head when he's not getting things his own way. Queensland showed if you dont give him the space to run he's more headless chicken than match winner.

If Samoa wins this weekend I'm coming back to this

[Dunbar]

17 hours ago, anjado said:

This is where stats don't tell the whole story. 

Penrith's left side of attack has been the dominant side of attack in the NRL with the exception of Souths. 

In that time it's been 

2020 - Luai,Kikau,Crichton Mansour

2021 - Luai,Kikau,Burton,To'o 

2022 - Luai,Kikau,Tago,May 

Now Kikau is a superb and unique player and he obviously is a huge help, but one of the strengths of Luai is he plays within himself. He replaced James Maloney who would be one of the top 5 stand off's of the previous decade and he has done a far better job because he doesn't try and do too much. 

It doesn't mean he can't or won't or doesn't have the ability he is an excellent player. We have had wholesale changes on the left side of our attack every season with 4 of those players being rookies Crichton, Burton, Tago and May and the fact we haven't had a drop in standards is a huge credit to Luai who runs that side of the pitch. 

As for the game I think England will win, purely for one of the reasons you stated which is cohesion I feel Samoa will grow into the tournament. England are at home Infront of a big crowd I would expect them to play really well Samoa will be caught a bit cold but should be a great game. 

I am not convinced at all that the Penrith left edge is second only to Souths at all.

The Sharks left side of Talakai and Mulitalo have more run metres, more line breaks and more tackles breaks per game than the Penrith centre and wing.  They fall just short in tries per game.

On the other hand, the Brisbane left side of Farnworth and Oates have comfortably more tries per game than the Penrith pair and also have more run metres.

I think the best player in that left side for Penrith is Kakau - you could put the Sharks or Brisbane centre/wing combination into that Penrith system and they would be just as effective.  I believe more so.

[Saint Toppy]

31 minutes ago, Mojo said:

If Samoa wins this weekend I'm coming back to this

If England can't beat that Samoa team they don't deserve to even make it out of the qualifying group

[Hughsehhh]

Can't wait for this and hope England do an absolute number on this Samoa team. I get the NRL Facebook feed and everything linked to it and I'm so sick of hearing the Aussies talk about how Samoa will turn us over, it's the NRL versus super League and so barely a contest etc. 

[Chris22]

Can use this link to pick your team. I'd recommend as more engagement = more publicity and investment.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/63163800

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, Hughsehhh said:

Can't wait for this and hope England do an absolute number on this Samoa team. I get the NRL Facebook feed and everything linked to it and I'm so sick of hearing the Aussies talk about how Samoa will turn us over, it's the NRL versus super League and so barely a contest etc. 

I agree.  I just read on my Facebook feed someone "tipping England to upset Samoa".  I am really not sure how we got to the position where Samoa are so far ahead of England that it will be an upset if England win. 

To be honest, I hope that Samoa are buying into this hype.

[WN83]

50 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I am not convinced at all that the Penrith left edge is second only to Souths at all.

The Sharks left side of Talakai and Mulitalo have more run metres, more line breaks and more tackles breaks per game than the Penrith centre and wing.  They fall just short in tries per game.

On the other hand, the Brisbane left side of Farnworth and Oates have comfortably more tries per game than the Penrith pair and also have more run metres.

I think the best player in that left side for Penrith is Kakau - you could put the Sharks or Brisbane centre/wing combination into that Penrith system and they would be just as effective.  I believe more so.

I watched Penrith in the play offs, after not watching much of them for a while and Kikau made so much room for players outside of him, simply because they would use him as a decoy and teams were so focussed on him, he'd suck defenders in and there would be acres of space on his outside. I kept finding myself wanting to see him getting the ball because he's great to watch and becoming frustrated when he didn't but just his presence made such a difference to that left edge. 

[Dunbar]

We keep hearing that this Samoan squad is a massive upgrade on previous years.  Here is the team from 2017 when England won 30 - 10.

So, not a bad middle unit at all.  Kasiano, Paulo and McGuire with Asiata and Ese'ese off the bench.

And we hear about the Penrith backs - are May, Tago and Crichton really head and shoulders above Maumalo, Leilua and lafai?

 

1) Peter MATA'UTIA

2) Ken MAUMALO

3) Joey LEILUA

4) Tim LAFAI

5) Antonio WINTERSTEIN

6) Anthony MILFORD

7) Fa'amanu BROWN

8). Sam KASIANO

9) Suaia MATAGI

10) Junior PAULO

11) Sione MATA'UTIA

12) Leeson AH MAU

13) Josh McGUIRE (c)

 

14) John ASIATA

15) Sauaso SUE

16) Herman ESE'ESE

17) Pita GODINET

Edited October 10, 2022 by Dunbar

[RP London]

12 hours ago, ghost crayfish said:

I'm struggling with the right make up for the England bench. Has Morgan Knowles played much edge back row (2nd row), and could he cover that position if one of the starters was injured? I've gone for him as the third bench forward assuming he can cover that spot, but I am not sure if he ever actually has played that edge role... 

Along with two props, I think the bench needs someone who can cover middle or edge forward roles, and someone who can play 9 and also cover the halves. Therefore, I'm also going for Welsby on the bench to play some dummy half, as well as providing backline cover.

1. Tomkins 2. Makinson 3. Farnworth 4. Watkins 5. Young 6. Williams 7. Sneyd 8. Thompson 9. Ackers 10. Hill 11. Whitehead 12. McMeeken 13. Radley 14. Welsby 15. Knowles 16. Oledzki 17. Burgess

There is quite a lot of flexibility in that team to be fair. Welsby can cover center with Watkins moving into the second row. Radley arguably could go into the second row too if there were injuries. 

I am slightly surprised no one seems to see Tomkins in the halves as a possibility. potentially I would look at him and Sneyd with Welsby at fullback.  Sneyd has to play for me as his kicking game could be vital, Tomkins can then fit around with Welsby attacking with pace from fullback...

Equally with that the case I can see him giving Tomkins another week to get fit and then having easier run outs in the rest of the group matches to build up match fitness. 

[Dunbar]

4 minutes ago, RP London said:

Equally with that the case I can see him giving Tomkins another week to get fit and then having easier run outs in the rest of the group matches to build up match fitness. 

I can see a lot of sense in this.

Welsby is fit and in form and Tomkins hasn't played for some time.  Samoa is the tough game in the group. 

Give Welsby the #1 for Samoa with Williams and Sneyd together and then there is two more matches for Tomkins to play himself into some form.

[Just Browny]

1. Tomkins

2. Young

3. Watkins

4. Farnworth

5. Makinson

6. William's

7. Sneyd

8. Oledzki

9. McIlorum

10. Thompson

11. McMeeken

12. Whitehead

13. Knowles

 

Cooper, Burgess, Radley, Welsby

 

Keep Welsby as fresh as possible but bring him on to make something happen if we need him to.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Just Browny
Forgot Bateman was suspended

[MattSantos]

Is Bateman available?

[FearTheVee]

13 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Keep Welsby as fresh as possible but bring him on to make something happen if we need him to.

My view is Welsby is a player we need on the pitch as much as we possible can.

Other than the captaincy and Wane relationship I'd say there is very little to justify Tomkins starting ahead of Welsby this weekend.  I'll support Sam to the hilt if he's out there though (it would be nice to have a WC without parochial club-centric whining about selections).

Edited October 10, 2022 by FearTheVee