RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Ackroman]

32 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

No they really don’t.

Correct. I've had more conversations about RL in the few weeks than in my previous 54 years. 

It's a shame this thread has gone down a rabbit hole because the women's game and wheel chair games have only just got going.

The combined effect will be massive by comparison.

One other point is that with all the World Cups going on right now, only one represents the vast majority who live in the world. If you want a legacy then we have to ignore the muppets moaning about empty seats and create an untouchable narrative based on our inclusive attitude.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

50 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

No they really don’t.

They do mate....I've had it loads

[Dave T]

16 minutes ago, Ackroman said:

Correct. I've had more conversations about RL in the few weeks than in my previous 54 years. 

It's a shame this thread has gone down a rabbit hole because the women's game and wheel chair games have only just got going.

The combined effect will be massive by comparison.

One other point is that with all the World Cups going on right now, only one represents the vast majority who live in the world. If you want a legacy then we have to ignore the muppets moaning about empty seats and create an untouchable narrative based on our inclusive attitude.

This is an attendance thread. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

I have enjoyed the WC even some of the blowouts, my biggest worry is how much this is all going to cost.

If you do the maths its not a pretty picture, really all down to England for a sell out at Arsenal and Manchester United to turn this around.

 

P 

 

 

[Anita Bath]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

 

Apologies…I purposefully didnt read the negativity thread.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

8 hours ago, pahars said:

My original unedited post said ‘quarter finals onward’ pal. I’m a bit baffled what your point is regarding the QF’s, as the regular RL audience having more money and a positive attitude  plus a smidgeon of an event crowd surely validates what I was saying? 

I was agreeing with you. My point was that you mentioned an 'event crowd', but I'm not convinced that there actually is much of an event crowd in those towns hosting the quarter finals. If they wanted the event crowd, they needed to put those games in vibrant, affluent cities IMO.

[Chrispmartha]

24 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

They do mate....I've had it loads

From casual sports  fans? Ive had nothing but positives from the people i know.

 

So were all square on the anecdotes.

[St Reatham]

Do we all agree that, aside from England games, there’s no real appetite for international rugby league in the heartlands in England?

[Anita Bath]

6 minutes ago, St Reatham said:

Do we all agree that, aside from England games, there’s no real appetite for international rugby league in the heartlands in England?

yes

[Davo5]

8 minutes ago, St Reatham said:

Do we all agree that, aside from England games, there’s no real appetite for international rugby league in the heartlands in England?

Or more likely no appetite to pay more than £20 for it.

[pahars]

20 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I was agreeing with you. My point was that you mentioned an 'event crowd', but I'm not convinced that there actually is much of an event crowd in those towns hosting the quarter finals. If they wanted the event crowd, they needed to put those games in vibrant, affluent cities IMO.

Nah I don’t buy that. In 2013 Huddersfield got 24k for a game, Warrington 14k, even places like Halifax and Rochdale got sell outs. 
 

You don’t have to be in Mayfair to attract casual fans or general sports fans to an event. But the event does have to capture their imagination. 

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, pahars said:

Nah I don’t buy that. In 2013 Huddersfield got 24k for a game, Warrington 14k, even places like Halifax and Rochdale got sell outs. 
 

You don’t have to be in Mayfair to attract casual fans or general sports fans to an event. But the event does have to capture their imagination. 

 

Huddersfield was an England game.

Also attitudes can change over time.

For example, Challenge Cup final and grand Final crowds look down over the same period as well - and by a decent amount. Accepting the impact of COVID and Catalans on some of those.

Edited November 5, 2022 by Leonard

[Chrispmartha]

24 minutes ago, pahars said:

Nah I don’t buy that. In 2013 Huddersfield got 24k for a game, Warrington 14k, even places like Halifax and Rochdale got sell outs. 
 

You don’t have to be in Mayfair to attract casual fans or general sports fans to an event. But the event does have to capture their imagination. 

 

2022 is a very different England to 2013

[Big Picture]

50 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I was agreeing with you. My point was that you mentioned an 'event crowd', but I'm not convinced that there actually is much of an event crowd in those towns hosting the quarter finals. If they wanted the event crowd, they needed to put those games in vibrant, affluent cities IMO.

And by extension, the game's top tier needs clubs in vibrant, affluent cities if it's going to solve the chronic money problems afflicting the game because this World Cup proves the truth of Sean McGuire's observation about the reason for those chronic money problems.

[Anita Bath]

2 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

And by extension, the game's top tier needs clubs in vibrant, affluent cities if it's going to solve the chronic money problems afflicting the game because this World Cup proves the truth of Sean McGuire's observation about the reason for those chronic money problems.

Weve tried that….it was called London.

By vibrant affluent do you mean southern?  I think Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle and Sheffield are as vibrant as anything you will find in the northern part of the country…and we also now have a team in Birmingham representing the ‘midlands’. We previously tried Nottingham.

 

[RigbyLuger]

16 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

It is worth saying that with some tickets having been on sale for 2 years it is likely there has been large numbers of no shows for games. The Coventry game for example had over 13,000 tickets sold. The wheel chair is more likely to affected as the tickets were a lot cheaper, especially early bird. 

Exactly. When I booked for today's double header, I was expecting it to be at Anfield and wasn't expecting a train strike. Thankfully, I've given them away to a family friend and bought tickets elsewhere, but there have been a few things we bought tickets for pre-Covid we haven't been able to get to after rearrangements. I'm sure some live in a bubble where nothing other than RL exists.

Imagine the fuss if the website sold the same ticket twice because they didn't have the process they described a few posts above.

[Dave T]

6 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

And by extension, the game's top tier needs clubs in vibrant, affluent cities if it's going to solve the chronic money problems afflicting the game because this World Cup proves the truth of Sean McGuire's observation about the reason for those chronic money problems.

Cool. People should just set them up then. 

Because SL has shown we are absolutely open to it. We've had Paris, London, Sheffield, Gateshead, South Wales, Toronto, we've taken games to Edinburgh, Cardiff, Newcastle etc - but they haven't bitten yet. 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, RigbyLuger said:

Exactly. When I booked for today's double header, I was expecting it to be at Anfield and wasn't expecting a train strike. Thankfully, I've given them away to a family friend and bought tickets elsewhere, but there have been a few things we bought tickets for pre-Covid we haven't been able to get to after rearrangements. I'm sure some live in a bubble where nothing other than RL exists.

Imagine the fuss if the website sold the same ticket twice because they didn't have the process they described a few posts above.

Many people took the refunds on offer. 

[Toby Chopra]

1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I was agreeing with you. My point was that you mentioned an 'event crowd', but I'm not convinced that there actually is much of an event crowd in those towns hosting the quarter finals. If they wanted the event crowd, they needed to put those games in vibrant, affluent cities IMO.

It's interesting that much of our debate around attendances relates to whether a particular town turns out for a game they are hosting because it's not how other comparable tournaments look at things.

England has hosted a number of global/continental sporting championships in recent years - Men's and women's euros, RuWC, Cricket WC etc - and they all drew fans from far beyond the local town, especially for the big games.

My belief is that the RLWC organisers weren't looking at whether particular towns would turn out, but simply at which venues were available at the right size/cost for a World Cup match, subject to the northern England stipulation.

They strongly expected that people would travel - certainly within the heartlands,  and even from beyond  - for a tournament of this significance. And the opening weekend suggested they might have been right, until it turned out that was the high point. 

Whether it's the culture of rugby league fans to stay local, the issues about oversaturation, affordability and lack of games in the south, or simply that the RLWC isn't as big a deal as we'd hoped it would be, the organisers really misjudged how people would access the tournament.

They basically thought: It's a World Cup - build it and they will come. Turns out, for a whole variety of reasons - some under their control, some not - they haven't.

I suspect people WILL travel for the London semi and the final - they have the same cachet as the opener - the crowds will be satisfactory . Not sure about the Leeds semi on a Friday night, although that might pass the 'event crowd' test in a large city with a culture of rugby/cricket on Friday nights.   

So lots for the organisers to be accountable for at the end, but I tend to think that pointing the finger at certain towns for not turning out in the right numbers wouldn't be the right focus.    

(btw not saying you we're saying that @RugbyLeagueGeek)

Edited November 5, 2022 by Toby Chopra

[RL Tragic]

2 hours ago, RL Tragic said:

I am tired of some of the posts that seem to defend the tournaments attendances as a ok and that we in turn should be ok with that not a single sole on here wants to be at the point we are at  . However The facts of the matter are . 
 

1/ RL fans are watching games and thinking, The attendance doesn’t looks great .

2/ Non RL fans ,  I’ve sat and watched many games with RU fans over the last few weeks ,  and the P taking has been to a man immense , I’ve also sat with non sporting neutrals who watching games with me on TV and one of the big points is , Doesn’t it look empty. One even thought there were still covid restrictions! . No one , and I mean NO one  I have talked to has not commented on the poor attendance.
 

3/ The attendances have physically  been poor (9k average ) and have looked much much worse than that on TV due to a number of factor’s 

4/ This is a professional entertainment event , the size of the crowd and the atmosphere DO matter . Think wrestlemania with 6000 people there , no music and fans so silent you can hear big show scratch His ###### .

5/ This is not what we were PROMISED John Dutton and Co have failed by ANY measure . If we are still saying there are seats available for Tonga v Samoa in an RL town then our leaders shouldn’t be leading . 
 

6/ The pricing structure has been a Cluster funk the only evidence of if pricing is right or wrong is customer take up . Think Tescos chief pricing strategist getting it this wrong . And then blatantly lying about there errors . They would be out the door next day .

7/ The ticketing website is substandard. In this day and age platforms are available , quite readily to allow businesses to offer smooth transactional process . No excuses here .
 

 

I’m looking to send the below as an open letter to the organisers, prompted by last night that I felt was shameful for players on both sides of such quality. I do however look forward to going to NZ v Fiji tonight , come on Fiji !!!!!

 

Dear RLWC

 

I was wondering if anyone at your organisation was monitoring the general feelings of anger by a large number of grassroots supporters over the mismanagement and failure of this edition of the World Cup . I urge you to look at the forums to educate yourselves on great anger within the core fan foundation of the game for what is felt, rightly born out by the dismal crowds , technical and promotional issues and failure to deliver on the promises we received before the World Cup . I have attended many games of this edition and I feel it was a much less entertaining and atmospheric version y to o 2013 . In 2013 I felt I was at a World Cup , this edition feels clunky , amateurish and soulless with little atmosphere at grounds . The players ,community work and additional tournaments are without doubt an excellent addition and deserve praise so please leave these out of any response as I am focusing on the mens tournament that the vastly general feeling is has not only failed to deliver, but has actually  regressed from 2013 . I think the fan base would like to know that after the tournament has ended there will be a proper review culminating  in those who it generally felt have squandered a golden opportunity for the game brought to book .
 

Sent from my iPhone

[Toby Chopra]

53 minutes ago, St Reatham said:

Do we all agree that, aside from England games, there’s no real appetite for international rugby league in the heartlands in England?

No, I don't agree. Several hundred thousand existing RL fans in the heartland will attend this tournament. The problem is is the organisiers have priced out/scheduled out/locationed out many others, especially those less familiar with RL.

If we could have a do-over on this tournament, the majority of games would still be in the current locations.        

[Anita Bath]

8 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

It's interesting that much of our debate around attendances relates to whether a particular town turns out for a game they are hosting because it's not how other comparable tournaments look at things.

England has hosted a number of global/continental sporting championships in recent years - Men's and women's euros, RuWC, Cricket WC etc - and they all drew fans from far beyond the local town, especially for the big games.

My belief is that the RLWC organisers weren't looking at whether particular towns would turn out, but simply at which venues were available at the right size/cost for a World Cup match, subject to the northern England stipulation.

They strongly expected that people would travel - certainly within the heartlands,  and even from beyond  - for a tournament of this significance. And the opening weekend suggested they might have been right, until it turned out that was the high point. 

Whether it's the culture of rugby league fans to stay local, the issues about oversaturation, affordability and lack of games in the south, or simply that the RLWC isn't as big a deal as we'd hoped it would be, the organisers really misjudged how people would access the tournament.

They basically thought: It's a World Cup - build it and they will come. Turns out, for a whole variety of reasons - some under their control, some not - they haven't.

I suspect people WILL travel for the London semi and the final - they have the same cachet as the opener - the crowds will be satisfactory . Not sure about the Leeds semi on a Friday night, although that might pass the 'event crowd' test in the large city with a culture of rugby/cricket on Friday nights.   

So lots for the organisers to account for at the end, but I tend to think that pointing the finger at certain towns for not turning out in the right numbers wouldn't be the right focus.    

(btw not saying you we're saying that @RugbyLeagueGeek)

I posted a few weeks ago that games were sold off to bidders. The organisers applied no strategic thinking…simply chose locations based on the size of bids. Rochdale bid for a Fiji game ( a great success at the previous world cup) but the bid was not successful (presumably they were out bid)

 

So not sure how the financials work…who takes the hit for poor attendences…the parties who won the bids and awarded games or the WC organising committee?

[Big Picture]

11 minutes ago, Anita Bath said:

Weve tried that….it was called London.

By vibrant affluent do you mean southern?  I think Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle and Sheffield are as vibrant as anything you will find in the northern part of the country…and we also now have a team in Birmingham representing the ‘midlands’. We previously tried Nottingham.

By vibrant and affluent I mean vibrant and affluent, wherever those cities may be.  But I mean only vibrant, affluent cities, not trying one or two such cities added onto a league full of smallish, economically disadvantaged towns because the latter obviously won't work.  Not only in London, it doesn't work too well in the northern cities you mentioned either.

[OriginalMrC]

Has this thread got worse. Yes I think it's got worse  

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

Has this thread got worse. Yes I think it's got worse  

Good contribution. The bar has been set.