Sat 12th Nov: RLWC SF: England v Samoa KO 14:30

[north yorks trinity]

26 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Tonga beats the Kiwis and kangaroos and the international games grows. Samoa beats England and its the other way around? Geez

Because that's how it actually is. Because growth of the game means real growth in countries that don't rely on heritage players from Australia or New Zealand. So Australia losing (and to a lesser extent NZ) helps growth. England, France and PNG losing doesn't help growth. 

I'm not against heritage nations at all as we need them to have a meaningful world cup and they actually have as much right as any other country to prosper. Once we've set the rules, one person's eligibility is as good as anyone else's. But I think it's clear to most dispassionate observers (whilst accepting that I don't tick that box ) that England getting to a world cup final or even, heaven forbid, winning it, would benefit the game of rugby league world wide immeasurably more than Tonga or Samoa achieving the same.

[Mojo]

The last time we saw Walsby on field

[Loiner]

3 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

Yes. Full spine will be different, only Welsby still there probably. Who is coming through in those positions? Our best players have been burgess, hill, whitehead and Radley. I’ll bet that none of them will play in 2025 for different reasons. Who replaces them? 

I think we’ll be really poor in 3 years, but hope I’m wrong, as always.

On the basis of this world cup what makes you think Welsby will still be there ? Not lived up to the hype.

[Mojo]

If England wants to get better they need to organise gamed against Samoa and Tonga every year. It'll benefit England and the Island nations

Edited November 13, 2022 by Mojo

[Mojo]

Next world cup in 3 years and I see Haas, Tino and Nanai replacing the veterans in the Samoan team. And a whole heap of up and coming samoan stars in the NRL.

[WN83]

8 minutes ago, Loiner said:

On the basis of this world cup what makes you think Welsby will still be there ? Not lived up to the hype.

Jeez, I’m sick of Welsby winning big games here but he’s proper rattled you. We’re masters in our game at crucifying young players. Yes the lad has an attitude but it’s what helps set him apart. Sam Tomkins has had to put up with British RL fans BS for over a decade and Welsby is next in line it would seem. 
 

At club level I can’t stand the kid but I wish we had a dozen of him. He deserves better from fans of the game here. 

[WN83]

8 minutes ago, Mojo said:

If England wants to get better they need to organise gamed against Samoa and Tonga every year. It'll benefit England and the Island nations

I think we’d love that but will the NRL allow it? They call the shots and want To’o, Luai, Taumalolo and co well rested. 

[Chamey]

As a positive, I've heard more about this game than every other league game put together from non-hardcore fans, still a missed opportunity to build buzz for the final.

[Mojo]

2 minutes ago, WN83 said:

I think we’d love that but will the NRL allow it? They call the shots and want To’o, Luai, Taumalolo and co well rested. 

The players have the power to say no to the nrl. The nrl used to in the past when the samoa were hardly competitive but I don't think that's the case anymore. International games growing so much players wants to get involved.

I would love to see Samoa play England every year.

[WN83]

1 minute ago, Mojo said:

The players have the power to say no to the nrl. The nrl used to in the past when the samoa were hardly competitive but I don't think that's the case anymore. International games growing so much players wants to get involved.

I would love to see Samoa play England every year.

I’m keeping everything crossed. I was at Warrington last Sunday and in London today and who wouldn’t want more of that? 

I’m just shy of 40, I’ve watched Wigan win everything a few times over and I’m ready to watch more games like those two and the game last night. It’s just the best IMO. 
 

 

[Dunbar]

4 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

You also told us Samoa were terrible and it was stupid to think they could beat us so…

I'm happy to hold my hand up when I am wrong on here and I have done so several times about Samoa since the game earlier today.

I said Samoa were overhyped and not as good as people were saying and I was wrong as they are in the World Cup final.

But at no point did I say they were terrible and I try not to call other posters stupid and so please don't put words in my mouth to make a point.

[Mojo]

On 08/11/2022 at 23:43, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

For all the talk that Samoa have found form, I still reckon that it'll be England by 40+.

Morning

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

Yeah Luai the one trick pony as one person on here called him. And in the same breath managed to say nothing about young Jack.

What do you mean I have have managed to say nothing about Jack Welsby, I have said plenty about him?

[rlno1]

5 hours ago, Damien said:

England just didn't perform and paid the price, as NZ did at home in 2017 against Fiji. England have no one to blame but themselves for what happened today.

We all want a more competitive international RL scene and it seems weird to moan when that comes to fruition.

It's not moaning it's grieving

[rlno1]

5 hours ago, Tippytoe said:

Nothing changes though dose it we can't match intensity at highest level. 

Aussies will find a way to win.

Why can't England match intensity most of them play or have played in the NRL.

Edited November 13, 2022 by rlno1

[Alan Robertson]

11 minutes ago, rlno1 said:

Why can't England match intensity most of them play or have played in the NRL.

I am not sure but I think even more of our lads need exposure to the NRL. I'll get my body armour ready but, until we beat them (preferably, regularly), I believe I have a decent point.

[rlno1]

3 hours ago, Alan Robertson said:

I haven't yet become desensitised to these losses. I don't think I ever will.

Both of Farnworth's tries were superb and he was one of the few England players who didn't deserve that result. Whitehead is another strong example of that. 

Welsby was unbelievably poor. He's a 'flat track bully' at this stage.

England's 'game management', in extra time, was as bad as it gets.

I can't stop thinking about 'what might have been' .

 

Agree Elliott was fantastic, could play at a high level all day. Would have loved him to take that last tackle at the death rather then throw an awkward pass. It would have given one chance for Williams to have a shot and the right side for him too.

Agreed Welsby offered little and isn't a top standard international stand off. Also thought Wane could have moved Bateman to centre for Watkins and brought a bench player on.

[rlno1]

4 hours ago, Mojo said:

If England wants to get better they need to organise gamed against Samoa and Tonga every year. It'll benefit England and the Island nations

I would like to see England play a schedule similar to this:

Year 1 - 7 games

In season v Wales (h) v France (a)

post season v Fiji (h) v Tonga (h) and 3 tests v Australia (h)

***Fiji, Tonga and Australia can also play one off tests v Wales and France

 

Year 2 - 5/6 games plus extra tour tests 

In season v Wales (a) v France (h)

post season a 4N tournament down under next tournament would be in Nth Hemisphere

 

Year 3 - 7 games

In season v Wales (h) v France (a)

post season v PNG (h) v Samoa (h) and 3 tests v NZ (h)

***PNG, Samoa and NZ can also play one off tests v Wales and France

 

Year 4 - 5 to 8 games

In season v Wales (a) v France (h)

World Cup

 

England would come down under every 8 years. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by rlno1

[MatthewWoody]

Still devastated. 

Home World Cup...

Am I the only one with the impression that England should have kept it simple, instead of always looking for the extra pass, the moneyball etc? 

By the way, the way we "played" extratime was embarrassing. The forward pass itself...why? There, you just have to advance tackle by tackle, then kick and have Samoa start from deep. Instead, after getting out of prison free the first time (thanks to Whitehead's miracle), you just gifted them another chance. 

Kicking game and game management was unacceptable at test level. The lads were just unable to play under pressure. And I won't start talking about defence...

Who's responsible for all this? Can it mean (some of the) players aren't good enough? Is the "being used to the intensity of the NRL" really a myth (as most of us forumers think)? Cause yesterday it was clear out players had something less. 

Whenever Samoa attacked, I had a feeling we were vulnerable. Whenever they "opened" their game and were quick and expansive. 

Why do I have a feel we've been backwards? 

Australia would have beaten us by 40 points and I won't be surprised if they keep snubbing us.

[The One]

Still feel gutted, would have been great to watch England in the final at OT.

[StandOffHalf]

8 hours ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

It might be but it’s frustrating. I could feel this coming, we’re a small sport with a small mentality over here. I’ve loved Shaun Wane during this tournament but he lost it today, angry every time the camera was on him, taking blokes off because he was mad not for tactical reasons. 

We had it too easy up to this point.

Good point. Wane and England didn't do well when the blow-torch came on.

That inferiority complex came out under pressure.

[JohnM]

12 hours ago, The Legend said:

Agree with all of that. I thought it looked obvious that we were getting the rub of the green. Samoa even complained about it at half time. 

That penalty for us on Tomkins was embarrassing. 

1. How do you know Samoa complained about anything at half time?

2. Does anyone or any team complaining about anything actually constitute an incontrovertible truth? 

 

[ELBOWSEYE]

5 hours ago, Loiner said:

On the basis of this world cup what makes you think Welsby will still be there ? Not lived up to the hype.

I thought he had a poor game but your rants are way over the top, he is going to be a top talent and the way to the top is not a simple straight line. Some experienced players had their worst game of the tournament so hanging the youngest is poor form. 

[JohnM]

6 hours ago, WN83 said:

Left the house at 7am and got back about half an hour ago. What can you say?! We just put ourselves in a bad spot and couldn’t quite pull it back. We should’ve won the game, even playing like that but we just couldn’t settle and find the patience needed. 
 

What I hate on days like today is how the fingers start pointing, based on your club loyalties-It’s Watkins fault, Wanes fault, Tomkins and Micky Macs fault, Welsby’s fault, Whiteheads fault, Radleys fault, a mixture of them all and everything in between. It was the teams fault, not any individuals. We started slowly and got no intensity going until the last 15 mins and even then, we couldn’t stop panicking. 

Pretty gutted tbh, I thought we’d at least get a day out next Saturday. In the main the players and coaching staff have been great in the tournament. We need more internationals and we personally need to regroup and come again. I think we’ve a very decent side forming, with some big players to come back in and young lads to break through. It’s tough to keep putting these disappointments behind us but I’ve seen 2 amazing games in the last couple of days and I want more of it. 

Oi you! You can't come on here spouting stuff like that! I mean to say, it's far too close to the truth, far too reasonable and accurate.  You've omitted to call for Wanes head, too and not moaned about the alleged crowd numbers, either. You've not had a go at the way the fixtures were configured either 

Yellow cad for you, I'm afraid.

[moorside roughyed]

1 hour ago, The One said:

Still feel gutted, would have been great to watch England in the final at OT.

But would it? I think we'd have been leathered by the Aussies judging by what was on display yesterday. The other semi final was 100% better than yesterdays. It was sublime.Good luck to Samoa but they'll have to bring their best "A" game too.