Sat 12th Nov: RLWC SF: England v Samoa KO 14:30

[Gerrumonside ref]

Some people really taking this loss badly and losing all sense of perspective.

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Alan Robertson said:

He is a flat track bully. Over the last few of decades, how many of our halves have played well against top-class international opposition?

He's 21 and playing in his first World Cup ffs. He has played a total of 5 games for England, all in this World Cup. He also has played pretty well until yesterday. To dismiss him as a flat track bully when far more experienced internationals lost their heads is ridiculous.

[bratman]

12 minutes ago, Damien said:

He's 21 and playing in his first World Cup ffs. He has played a total of 5 games for England, all in this World Cup. He also has played pretty well until yesterday. To dismiss him as a flat track bully when far more experienced internationals lost their heads is ridiculous.

Easy to forget he's only 21, imagine how good he could be in his prime in 5+ years time, and with more international games under his belt.

[Pulga]

Imagine if Samoa could get all of their stars. 

Tino, Murray Tualagi, Ronaldo Mulitalo, NAS, Isiah Papall’ii, Dylan Brown, Moses Leota, Payne Hass.

That's scary. 

Bring back RTS from union!

[Dave T]

26 minutes ago, Damien said:

Australia maybe but the rest no way. Playing terribly and still drawing after 80 mins against Samoa does not mean we are not at their level.

Yup. I repeat, NZ lost to Fiji in the last WC and almost did so again this time. 

We played poorly and lost to Samoa after dropping the ball over the line, throwing an intercept and playing sudden death like a PlayStation game. 

We'd beat Samoa 8 out of 10 times, I've no doubts about that. 

[OMEGA]

14 hours ago, Gomersall said:

Unfortunately it wasn’t that entertaining. Especially the first 40. The closeness of the score made it watchable.

That depends on what you’re comparing it to, if you’re using Rugby League standards it was a poor game but if you’re using Rugby Union standards it was an absolutely phenomenal experience the likes of which Union followers never usually see

[Alan Robertson]

32 minutes ago, Damien said:

He's 21 and playing in his first World Cup ffs. He has played a total of 5 games for England, all in this World Cup. He also has played pretty well until yesterday. To dismiss him as a flat track bully when far more experienced internationals lost their heads is ridiculous.

If being 21 is a defence, why didn't we pick one of our more experienced (and, presumably, better) players?

Apart from Watkins, which players were as bad as (or worse than) Welsby?

Edited November 13, 2022 by Alan Robertson

[Gomersall]

46 minutes ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Looking at some of the comments on here its ridiculous bordering on pathetic the way posters are pullung apart Welsby. I am not a saints fan but people calling him a flat track bully, hes a young talented player who has influenced grand finals but is young and not the finished article. Give him a break he is going to be a top player. 

He already is and hopefully will get even better.

[Dave T]

Players will have bad games. We suck it up and move on, we don't toss them onto the scrap heap. 

[OMEGA]

35 minutes ago, Damien said:

He's 21 and playing in his first World Cup ffs. He has played a total of 5 games for England, all in this World Cup. He also has played pretty well until yesterday. To dismiss him as a flat track bully when far more experienced internationals lost their heads is ridiculous.

I can concede all of your points, even agree with them but that doesn’t change his performance in the biggest game of his career so far.

Where the dislike for him comes from I can only guess but his eagerness to get in the faces of a player who’s made an error, the head rubbing, the screaming at them etc is probably one reason. That’s why my first comment about his performance yesterday was that I hope it teaches him some humility

Edited November 13, 2022 by OMEGA

[ELBOWSEYE]

3 minutes ago, Alan Robertson said:

If being 21 is a defence, why didn't we pick one of our more experienced (and, presumably, better) players?

Apart from Watkins, which players were as bad as (or worse than) Welsby?

Its a reason not a defence, it happens with young players. 

On your players who played poorest micky mac. 

[Wendigo7]

1 hour ago, overtheborder said:

For me the game yesterday just tells me England need more big-match practice. That was the first time as I recall they've had a pressure game since Wane has been in, so to me we can't be that surprised they were caught cold against a team that had to scrap for a win the week before.

For me we need more games, more time to really nail down processes and structures so that the basics don't go out of the window during big games and hopefully there'll be some improvement.

It was a disappointing result for England of course, but I'm not panicking.

Great post. The international game HAS to be prioritised now. Any games almost will do.

Give us a 6N RL, anything that drags us into consistent year on year competition. If we win great, if we lose actually I don't care... we need games at this point.

We also need an SOO equivalent. North vs South, or whatever that may look like. Just something that puts together all the best players against each other, in a best of 3 pressurizing game.

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, Alan Robertson said:

If being 21 is a defence, why didn't we pick one of our more experienced (and, presumably, better) players?

Apart from Watkins, which players were as bad as (or worse than) Welsby?

Its not a defence. His age and experience just illustrates how ridiculous it is writing off a 21 year old with a good 10 years left in the game. We did pick our more experienced players and they were our worst, the likes of Watkins, Tomkins, McIlorum, Williams.

[The Masked Poster]

43 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Some people really taking this loss badly and losing all sense of perspective.

I can't speak for anyone else but for me, it's about stopping fooling yourself like I have been doing for umpteen years. And the truth is often depressing.

[GUBRATS]

1 hour ago, overtheborder said:

For me the game yesterday just tells me England need more big-match practice. That was the first time as I recall they've had a pressure game since Wane has been in, so to me we can't be that surprised they were caught cold against a team that had to scrap for a win the week before.

For me we need more games, more time to really nail down processes and structures so that the basics don't go out of the window during big games and hopefully there'll be some improvement.

It was a disappointing result for England of course, but I'm not panicking.

Agree , we suffered partly because we steamrolled PNG last week , when we needed a scare , we didn't get one , Samoa had a perfect warm up against Tonga 

Just the way it goes 

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, OMEGA said:

I can concede all of your points, even agree with them but that doesn’t change his performance in the biggest game of his career so far.

Where the dislike for him comes from I can only guess but his eagerness to get in the faces of a player who’s made an error, the head rubbing, the screaming at them etc is probably one reason. That’s why my first comment about his performance yesterday was that I hope it teaches him some humility

He wasn't alone in that. Bar a couple of players everyone performed poorly, including those more experienced players and those who should have been providing leadership and composure.

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 minute ago, The Masked Poster said:

I can't speak for anyone else but for me, it's about stopping fooling yourself like I have been doing for umpteen years. And the truth is often depressing.

I think some are going overboard though.

[The Masked Poster]

Just now, Gerrumonside ref said:

I think some are going overboard though.

I don't think so. If anything too many people are clutching their comfort blankets and saying "next time will be different". I'm just admitting that it won't. 

I actually drifted away from RL and this tournament got me back into it as....yes, you guessed it, this time it was going to be different! What a Muppet, I should have known better!! 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I don't think so. If anything too many people are clutching their comfort blankets and saying "next time will be different". I'm just admitting that it won't. 

I actually drifted away from RL and this tournament got me back into it as....yes, you guessed it, this time it was going to be different! What a Muppet, I should have known better!! 

We lost a game of Rugby. Isn't that what we love about sport? The risk element. The wins and the losses? 

[GUBRATS]

It's always difficult going up against a team you've just pasted 3 weeks earlier , mentally it's very difficult to see that team as genuine competition , even when going behind early on , mentally you just think " it will happen " , rather than " we have to make it happen " and that's where the overplaying comes in , you start to try too hard 

Samoa off the back of the battle last weekend at Warrington were up for revenge , no doubt humiliated by the score we put on them , they had nothing to lose , and played that way 

It's sport , it's why we pay to watch it 

[Gerrumonside ref]

4 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:

I don't think so. If anything too many people are clutching their comfort blankets and saying "next time will be different". I'm just admitting that it won't. 

I actually drifted away from RL and this tournament got me back into it as....yes, you guessed it, this time it was going to be different! What a Muppet, I should have known better!! 

I was really disappointed too when the kick went over.

But I don’t think going in really hard on ourselves and our players is going to achieve much.

Better to get over the disappointment and come back to it with a clear head.

Lets not forget the levels that Australia and New Zealand reached in their semi final.

It would have been a huge challenge to match that for 70-80 mins and defeat the Roos.

I would have liked the opportunity though in a David vs Goliath sense.

For me England have shown in part in the tournament what we can be capable of and it brought me a lot of pride and exciting times tbh.

[Alan Robertson]

13 minutes ago, Dave T said:

We lost a game of Rugby. Isn't that what we love about sport? The risk element. The wins and the losses? 

When it comes to the teams that I support, I only love the wins.

[Dave T]

Just now, Alan Robertson said:

When it comes to the teams that I support, I only love the wins.

Of course. But if there is no risk, there is less fun. 

I'll be honest, I was quite chilled yesterday. Had a nice day pottering roundlondon, couple of drinks, lunch etc. I didn't feel pumped for the game, and subconsciously I obviously thought it was going to be a comfortable win. By the end of the game I was worried for my heart, such was the stress and excitement levels. 

That's why I love sport. Not many other forms of entertainment make you feel like you could drop dead at any moment. 

[Alan Robertson]

Just now, Dave T said:

...if there is no risk, there is less fun. 

By the end of the game I was worried for my heart, such was the stress and excitement levels. 

 

First part - true.

Second part - me too!

[Mojo]

It's funny most of the posters in here said the samoan forward pack wouldn't last against England. But the England middles got dominated and they looked defeated for most of the game. You would think after the Samoans middle did a good job against Tonga you English fans would know it was going to be a tough game. But too many in here were riding off the first game, but forgetting samoa had 3 injuries in that first half and had 1 bench player left for most of that 2nd half.

Tomkins and Walsby were talking alot of smack to Luai and some of the samoan boys during that first game. Man it was good seeing Luai give it back to them