Roses series

[OnStrike]

Bringing back the Lancashire v Yorkshire game(s) was discussed on the radio 5 podcast last week. As a recent convert to League, this seems a 'no brainer' as they say, especially with the struggles to get meaningful internationals. 

I know it's been done before, but surely if it's done right, right time of year etc, then a best of 3 series would get alot of interest?

The history is already there, no need to manufacture a rivalry. 

[The 4 of Us]

 

[OnStrike]

Hadn't noticed that thread. Just had a read, some strange ideas about East/West England, All Stars etc. That's just attempting to create a rivalry where none exists and people very easily see through such empty PR attempts.

I'm not from Yorkshire or Lancashire and it would interest me. Londoners, Cumbrians or whoever could declare for one of them of they were interested, and if it was successful they surely would be.

Obviously a thriving International scene would be better but it seems we're a good distance from that.

 

[Richard de la Riviere]

i loved it and thought it was a big mistake to scrap it. 

[Jughead]

Whoever mentions the Roses concept as a genuine idea should have to kit up and run a ball in against Tommy Leuluai. 

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

8 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Whoever mentions the Roses concept as a genuine idea should have to kit up and run a ball in against Tommy Leuluai. 

Explain? You think extra fixtures are the issue? Easy...ditch a loop fixture 

[Adelaide Tiger]

7 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Whoever mentions the Roses concept as a genuine idea should have to kit up and run a ball in against Tommy Leuluai. 

Do you have an alternative suggestion?

[corvusxiii]

9 minutes ago, Jughead said:

Whoever mentions the Roses concept as a genuine idea should have to kit up and run a ball in against Tommy Leuluai. 

I'm not sure why the WotR matches are so derided. I used to like them.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

51 minutes ago, OnStrike said:

Bringing back the Lancashire v Yorkshire game(s) was discussed on the radio 5 podcast last week. As a recent convert to League, this seems a 'no brainer' as they say, especially with the struggles to get meaningful internationals. 

I know it's been done before, but surely if it's done right, right time of year etc, then a best of 3 series would get alot of interest?

The history is already there, no need to manufacture a rivalry. 

I've always said it would need a 5 year approach....build it up just like Aussie Origin was.......my fear is that if it wasn't an instant success they'd ditch it 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I've always said it would need a 5 year approach....build it up just like Aussie Origin was.......my fear is that if it wasn't an instant success they'd ditch it 

Build it up and 5 year approach? We played this fixture for nearly a century. Its not like it hasn't been tried but the interest just isn't there.

[OnStrike]

5 minutes ago, Damien said:

Build it up and 5 year approach? We played this fixture for nearly a century. Its not like it hasn't been tried but the interest just isn't there.

What happened to it? Did it become a kind of pre season friendly or something? If it was done right, a good advertising campaign, good venue, good slot in the season etc I'm sure the interest would be there, look at the success of rivals round.

If we're not going to get a regular round of internationals, we surely have to look at reviving this.

[OnStrike]

16 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

I've always said it would need a 5 year approach....build it up just like Aussie Origin was.......my fear is that if it wasn't an instant success they'd ditch it 

Agreed

[Jughead]

19 minutes ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

Do you have an alternative suggestion?

Yes. International fixtures. LvY is a dated, antiquated idea that has been tried and failed. Bringing it back is on par with Exiles 2.0, which unsurprisingly didn’t work the second time around either. 

20 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Explain? You think extra fixtures are the issue? Easy...ditch a loop fixture 

No, I think the idea is a terrible, antiquated, dated idea that never worked the first time and wouldn’t the second time either. 

[OnStrike]

1 minute ago, Jughead said:

Yes. International fixtures. LvY is a dated, antiquated idea that has been tried and failed. Bringing it back is on par with Exiles 2.0, which unsurprisingly didn’t work the second time around either. 

No, I think the idea is a terrible, antiquated, dated idea that never worked the first time and wouldn’t the second time either. 

Fair enough, I think everyone is agreed on the importance of internationals. If we're not going to get them regularly though...

 

[bobbruce]

Possible v probables would work better for me get the England coach to pick a squad. Then another SL or guest coach pick a squad to go up against them. All England players. Acouple of years of players going head to head for test spots will soon crank the rivalry up. 

[Adelaide Tiger]

41 minutes ago, Damien said:

Build it up and 5 year approach? We played this fixture for nearly a century. It’s not like it hasn't been tried but the interest just isn't there.

The last game was 20 years ago.  The RL landscape has now changed.

The vote taken to support IMG’s ‘Reimagining the Game’ MAY be a catalyst to commit to a long term approach at some point to grow a rep game series.

Or the alternative is to just play France once per year (I am referring to games during the SL season and not to any international window at the end of the season).

 

 

Edited April 23, 2023 by Adelaide Tiger

[Futtocks]

32 minutes ago, OnStrike said:

What happened to it? Did it become a kind of pre season friendly or something? If it was done right, a good advertising campaign, good venue, good slot in the season etc I'm sure the interest would be there, look at the success of rivals round.

If we're not going to get a regular round of internationals, we surely have to look at reviving this.

What happened to the "War of the Roses" concept was that people lost interest, crowds dwindled beyond anything that made financial sense for the fixture and clubs became more and more reluctant to release their top players.

Then it was revived ten years later as the "County of Origin" series and limped on in the face of mass indifference 'til the last game in 2003.

Edited April 23, 2023 by Futtocks

[GUBRATS]

Why does there need to be a ' Rivalry ' ? , Surely just a game of RL is enough ?

[Man of Kent]

I’d rather this is the IMG new game idea than home and away Cup fixtures or whatever. 

Played at the right time, in the right ground, with a fan-friendly vibe, it could be a success.

[Archie Gordon]

Trouble is, sooner or later Lancy get 50 put on them and it gets dropped from the calendar.

[nec]

If you did a massive rebrand and had a kind of Lancashire lightning v Yorkshire Vikings or similar, possibly in a different format it might work. Otherwise it would like along for 3 seasons after a promising start them be quietly dropped, again.

[gingerjon]

Around the world there is, pretty much, one example of an origin style series 'working'.

That is, a representative 'test' series that sits above club sides but below national sides which draws enough viewers, sponsors etc and which the players commit to without question.

The problem for rugby league in this country is that the one that works is in rugby league in Australia.

And so we have far too many people believing that it is replicable because it's rugby league - rather than realising it most likely isn't because pretty much none of the circumstances that made State of Origin work apply to England.

[Toby Chopra]

11 minutes ago, nec said:

If you did a massive rebrand and had a kind of Lancashire lightning v Yorkshire Vikings or similar, possibly in a different format it might work. Otherwise it would like along for 3 seasons after a promising start them be quietly dropped, again.

This is the thing that nags at me - the roses rivalry works in the case you mention so clearly there's enough people left who still have a connection with the county identities. So why not in RL?

Perhaps, as gingerjon alludes to in his post, because there's no (mass spectator) club game sitting below the cricket counties so the counties serve that purpose too?

[OnStrike]

4 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Around the world there is, pretty much, one example of an origin style series 'working'.

That is, a representative 'test' series that sits above club sides but below national sides which draws enough viewers, sponsors etc and which the players commit to without question.

The problem for rugby league in this country is that the one that works is in rugby league in Australia.

And so we have far too many people believing that it is replicable because it's rugby league - rather than realising it most likely isn't because pretty much none of the circumstances that made State of Origin work apply to England.

Take your point but would argue some of the circumstances do apply to England.

-Lack of competitive internationals (for the Aussies because they were miles ahead)

-The natural end of the tour as a means of playing internationals

-Two geographical states where the game is prominent and a lack of national exposure 

-A history of rivalry between said states (generally, not just in rugby league)

Obviously these are not exactly the same in England in 2023 as in Australia in the 80s but there are some similar circumstances.

 

[Chrispmartha]

I get the impression that being from Lancashire just isn’t as tribal as Yorkshire?

 

how often do you hear ‘lancashire’ being shouted at games? ‘Yorkshire’ gets chanted all the time.