Time to move challange cup final north

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

EFL play-off finals aren’t always well attended. The last three L2 final crowds were 34k, 37k and 9k but nobody suggests they should be moved.

 

Same with the fa trophy and vase. 

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Havenlad80 said:

The USP would be a major final played in/on the door step of the heartlands at an iconic stadium like anfield or the etihad or st James park at a considerably less expensive cost to the overwhelming majority of the fans.

To be pedantic, the Ethiad isn’t iconic. 
 

Also yesterday, as I walked up the Wembley steps there was a group of blokes, probably in their late 40s early 50s and one of them was saying in wonder about how he never thought he’s see Leigh play at Wembley. I suspect many people yesterday were thinking the same. He wouldn’t have had that sense of magnificence if it was at a northern club football stadium. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Eddie

[moorside roughyed]

Me and my son are in London having gone to a different sporting event. We came down on Friday and we're going home today. We made a bit of a weekend of it. We didn't encounter any problems getting here, hopefully it'll be the same getting home.

Edited August 13, 2023 by moorside roughyed

[Spidey]

9 hours ago, EggFace said:

I don't care as the CC Cup came from our North first and remain in the North sometimes.

Where would you have the game played?

[Sports Prophet]

2 hours ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

We already have a final in the north, let’s stop being so small-minded 

Yesterday was a brilliant event, enjoyed by all who went there. As always, I took quite a few “general sports fans” in my group of 20.  As always, to a man and woman they all loved it. None of them were counting how many people weren’t there (only obsessives on here do that), but enjoying the atmosphere of the huge crowd that was.

There are loads of people like that in London, and all we need to do is sell the event properly and that ground could be full. We need to look at the opportunity this presents, not see the glass as half empty. 

If we didn’t have such a big chip on our shoulder about RU, publicly denigrating the game and it’s supporters anytime many people can, there would be a huge market of curious fans to promote a one off Challenge Cup Final to.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

43 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It was a brilliantly compelling match. A proper final that I've enjoyed catching up with.

But, genuine Q, was it a brilliant event?

Yes, it was, we had a great time. Proper cup final atmosphere.

Yes, the 1895 Cup should be played before the Challenge Cup.

Yes, the RFL needs to do much more to sell tickets to the general sports audience. But that is eminently possible.

All of these things can be simultaneously true 

[Mattrhino]

14 hours ago, EggFace said:

My mates son who is a AFL fan from Perth was watching it but asked why is Rugby League not popular ?

Nearly 60k for our secondary cup final is something most sports could only dream of.

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Nearly 60k for our secondary cup final is something most sports could only dream of.

Maybe this line is part of the issue.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

23 minutes ago, Mattrhino said:

Nearly 60k for our secondary cup final is something most sports could only dream of.

This is how we have to think in my opinion. What other sports outside of football have two events that draw in 60k crowds? RL is one of the most popular sports in this country. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by The Hallucinating Goose

[gingerjon]

16 minutes ago, Damien said:

Maybe this line is part of the issue.

Small time ambition is the curse of rugby league in this country.

The result is being satisfied with a decade-long decline because, well, somehow, it could be worse and, hey, we might sell more tickets next year.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

This is how we have to think in my opinion. What other sports outside of football have two events that draw in 60k crowds? RL is one of the most popular sports in this country. 

By attendance, it is fifth.

Which is not bad. Really.

But our attendances are falling, our income and sponsorship declining, and our footprint decreasing.

And the same people who brought us to this point are in charge now.

So absolute nonsense about what great foundations we have are meaningless until there is any kind of change in how the game is run and what it does.

That's what IMG are for, of course. But there is a lot of work to be done and I am not particularly hopeful that the change required will be delivered,

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Small time ambition is the curse of rugby league in this country.

Retreating to the north would confirm this. I find it weird our fans seem to want to find a stadium that would look full based on poor crowds recently,  instead of working out how to get more fans to fill Wembley

[Gerrumonside ref]

I think if you move away from the national stadium voluntarily then it really will signal decline in the sport and be reported that way too.

Slowly but surely it would sound the deathknell of the Challenge Cup competition too as the motivation to ‘get there’ would be gone.

Yes, we need to build and work harder than just saying, “hey you, these tickets are cheap” and instead say, “hey you, this is worth being there in person!”

 

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

This is how we have to think in my opinion. What other sports outside of football have two events that draw in 60k crowds? RL is one of the most popular sports in this country. 

RU, American Football, Horse Racing, Golf springs to mind. There's several others that only don't either because there isn't always more than one event in England or because of ground size restrictions, the likes of Boxing, Cricket, Tennis (and some of these have considerably more when their events are spread out over various days).

[The Hallucinating Goose]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Same with the fa trophy and vase. 

And this is the point of playing at Wembley. It is about the prestige of playing at Wembley not about playing in front of a massive crowd necessarily. Those non league players playing in some of these smaller football cups are not disappointed when they walk out to a nearly empty Wembley. They have dreamt all their lives, when they were little kids watching Wembley on tv, of walking out at Wembley and playing in one of the most iconic grounds in the world and its the same with RL players. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

We can’t rest on our laurels at all or take our fans (or potential fans) for granted.

But moving away from Wembley is extreme and not without repercussions in my mind.

 

[The Hallucinating Goose]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

RU, American Football, Horse Racing, Golf springs to mind. There's several others that only don't either because there isn't always more than one event in England or because of ground size restrictions, the likes of Boxing, Cricket, Tennis (and some of these have considerably more when their events are spread out over various days).

This sort of relates to what I just posted above, especially cricket. Cricket could build a 90,000 capacity ground in this country if they wanted because the popularity is there to fill it but in cricket you have these iconic, historical grounds that players want to play at. Watching an Ashes test at Lords is one of the great sporting events in the world, watching an Ashes test at the 90,000 capacity Cinch Bowl in Dagenham would not be quite so amazing. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

I firmly believe that once we start downsizing stadiums then crowds will follow. 58k at Wembley does not mean we get 58k in the North or elsewhere. 

Much is always made about Tottenham's ground but the fact is we went there last year and there were plenty of empty seats and a crowd of only 51,628. That was for a new RL stadium with all the novelty attached.

We’ve proven this time and time again. Smaller grounds mean smaller general sports fan appeal. I’ve been at a GB/Aussie Ashes match in Wigan that didn’t sell out, in the 2003 series where every game was tight. Previously we’d got 40,000 at Old Trafford and people were moaning because it wasn’t full.

The location’s stature is part of the “event”. Wembley creates its own audience, which would not all exist elsewhere. 

[JM2010]

I suppose this thread is redundant now anyway as they’ve announced the CC Final is staying at Wembley for the next 2 years and will probably stay there after that. 

60K is the baseline for the final now. Hopefully IMG and the RFL can put some plans in place to increase this year on year to at least above 70K

[phiggins]

10 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

We’ve proven this time and time again. Smaller grounds mean smaller general sports fan appeal. I’ve been at a GB/Aussie Ashes match in Wigan that didn’t sell out, in the 2003 series where every game was tight. Previously we’d got 40,000 at Old Trafford and people were moaning because it wasn’t full.

The location’s stature is part of the “event”. Wembley creates its own audience, which would not all exist elsewhere. 

Exactly this. We can either do better at selling tickets at Wembley, or shrink to fit. We have done the latter for internationals, and seen games move from Wembley and Old Trafford to Huddersfield and Saint Helens. 
 

I struggle to see how anyone that wants the game to grow could want it’s major cup competition to decline.

[Andy JG]

moving it north it then becomes another game...a Regal trophy final..18,000 crowds.

Keep it at Wembley

[Archie Gordon]

6 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

I suppose this thread is redundant now anyway as they’ve announced the CC Final is staying at Wembley for the next 2 years and will probably stay there after that. 

60K is the baseline for the final now. Hopefully IMG and the RFL can put some plans in place to increase this year on year to at least above 70K

I actually feel the current 55k or so leaves the CCF at Wembley in a fight for its existence. That seems to be the break even figure for RL Commercial, holding everything else constant. A 2 year deal seems only to add to the uncertainty. I hope the Final is still at Wembley in 2026 but some part of the formula needs to change.

[Tommygilf]

5 hours ago, Havenlad80 said:

The USP would be a major final played in/on the door step of the heartlands at an iconic stadium like anfield or the etihad or st James park at a considerably less expensive cost to the overwhelming majority of the fans.

You have heard of the grand final right? And even Magic Weekend?

Moving the cup final North would kill it dead imo. Would soon go the way of the regal trophy etc. 
 

[Liverpool Rover]

The Final needs to be at Wembley, it's where every fan wants to see their team play and where ever player wants to play. Seeing the Saints and Leeds players yesterday and what it meant to them to actually be there is something that can't be taken away from them.

[Tommygilf]

Being in the capital is still part of the event. It's not the thousands of pub trips that used to happen for northerners who had never left the north, but for many attendees, being in London is still an attractive part of making the cup an aspect of a wider trip to one of the best cities to visit in the world. 

Equally, Wembley isn’t "iconic" to some, but that's because they grew up with the old one. The next generation, my generation, have the second largest stadium in Europe and a big arch as our image of our national venue now not the twin towers. It will only grow more iconic the longer it is used and my generation tell their kids about visits in the past.

The issues are that there are not enough club fans of most teams; and the Cup Final itself isn't an attractive enough proposition to entice enough people to otherwise come to fill Wembley. 

How does the sport build up club fanbases? well partly that is what IMG are here to help, but some will help themselves more than others.

How does the sport make the final more of an attractive event? There are so many possible ways to do this. Given this is the highest profile Rugby League match that will be held in the capital this year, did it feel like RL took over any part of the city for more than just that day in Wembley? Was there a fanzone activity in the city centre? Was there any build up other than the bit immediately outside the stadium? The NFL didn't just magic up thousands of people willing to part with significant sums of money each. Neither will we, its hard work. Do the RFL have either the stomach or the finances to do that, I'm not sure.