Sun 8th Oct: Ch S/F: Featherstone Rovers v London Broncos KO 18:30 (Viaplay)

[Simon Hall]

Some grade A teddy out the pram behaviour from some Fev fans after last night's defeat, it's like they thought it was their God given right to go up this time. Fact is you weren't good enough on the pitch when it mattered (again), nothing to do with the structure of the game or expansion.

Time people at that club looked inwards as to why there's repeated choking when it matters, different coaches & money chucked at players and it's the same result. The whole culture at the club needs to change before success will happen, constantly being arrogant towards other clubs, mickey taking on social media, (minority) fan & club staff behaviour doesn't bring success it just breeds an attitude of not really giving a toss.

Some of the Fev fans really are the best in the game, they actually went and rebuilt the ground with their own hands so there's a core there that are an absolute credit to the town and game, that's what the club should be built around, not the "no one likes us and we don't care" attitude.

I've got a lot of time for James Ford for what he did at York but he was on a hiding to nothing at Fev, I don't think he even really wanted to be there, saying that you get the impression that some of the players don't either and are just there for the cash, they just showed a massive lack of heart when it mattered and money can't buy that.

[Harry Stottle]

22 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

No, the recruitment was a cut above really in terms of preparation, and there was clearly more money to be spent than at almost any previous championship club. Not to mention this was also after multiple attempts.

As a Uni boy, I think you will understand the failures that went before was lessons taken on board and rectified, what Mr Beaumont devised was the new blueprint for Championship clubs with how to deal effectively with promotion to SL, then it was stopped for the new system, but who knows money men having seen that there is a way to succeed may have thought that could be good to have a punt at, I very much doubt any of those rich guys will be enticed by IMG's system.

[Rovers13]

HKR bronco you can dress it up how you like and I know you’re not alone in wanting this img system. But if you think I’m spending £250 to watch friendlies you’re mistaken mate. If I wanted to watch some meaningless throwing a rugby ball about I’d go to local park and throw ball about with my grandson 

[TrueBull]

I put this in the Sheffield vs London thread before that game. “London have improved steadily through the season. Good skill levels but poor game management. Since Rhys Lovegrove joined they’ve been working on structure. Should be a good game.”

I saw it when Bradford narrowly won in London, but they’ve just peaked to another level since then. 
Unfortunately, I can’t see past a Toulouse win. 
Cracking season ahead next year with Wakey instead….

[Spidey]

3 hours ago, Fevrover said:

Soon ? Trial is February 2025 !

didn’t realise it was that far away. He’s got a lot on his mind at the moment then

[Harry Stottle]

42 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

This argument basically boils down to "under the old system you could buy your way into the league by paying for a squad that plays at a different level to anyone else in the comp"

Well my view is that's an unfair, and irrational, way of deciding which teams get into the top league. It certainly isn't an equal 'sporting' outcome. Nor does it bear any relationship to an assessment of which clubs will make the elite league better, or more valuable. Why are Featherstone better than Halifax, or Bradford, or whoever? "Because a bloke wants to spend money for a couple of years" doesn't strike me as the most compelling answer to that question. 

Off course, but what as ever changed and it has still not changed, looking at recruitment for next season I can't see Wigan being eclipsed for the continuation of being League Leaders once more so it could be that I quote, with minor adjustments :-

"This argument basically boils down to "under the old system you could buy your way to being the league leaders by paying for a squad that plays at a different level to anyone else in the comp"

Shouldn't be allowed that in this day and age any club should be able to buy their way to a title.

PS isn't that HKR's plan?

 

Edited October 9, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[Fevrover]

8 minutes ago, Spidey said:

didn’t realise it was that far away. He’s got a lot on his mind at the moment then

Plenty !

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Off course, but what as ever changed and it has still not changed, looking at recruitment for next season I can't see Wigan being eclipsed for the continuation of being League Leaders once more so it could be that I quote, with minor adjustments :-

"This argument basically boils down to "under the old system you could buy your way to being the league leaders by paying for a squad that plays at a different level to anyone else in the comp"

Shouldn't be allowed that in this day and age any club should be able to buy their way to a title.

PS isn't that HKR's plan?

 

I'm happy with Hull KR's plan. But then I'm not the one saying "life isn't fair because I tried to buy my way to promotion and it didn't work"

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

I'm happy with Hull KR's plan. But then I'm not the one saying "life isn't fair because I tried to buy my way to promotion and it didn't work"

Hull KR are a credit and doing all the right things. 

When they went down the fans rallied around and they didn't ##### and moan. 

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

As a Uni boy, I think you will understand the failures that went before was lessons taken on board and rectified, what Mr Beaumont devised was the new blueprint for Championship clubs with how to deal effectively with promotion to SL, then it was stopped for the new system, but who knows money men having seen that there is a way to succeed may have thought that could be good to have a punt at, I very much doubt any of those rich guys will be enticed by IMG's system.

To an extent I think you have to learn what works for your individual clubs. Other than, spend lots of money on good players, what would someone on the outside take from Leigh last season?

If I was to be frank, and having met a fair few of them, I think the problem with the old system is that these men weren't actually that rich at all (relatively) and couldn't put in the sums needed. For all Fev were "big spenders", they weren't full time, have a consortium of investors, and did not smash everyone they played like Leigh mostly did. This isn't a personal dig, its just that in the world of professional sport, the sums involved are pretty small fry. 

That may discourage some of the "2 bob millionaires" from thinking they will lead a lower league club into Super League, but equally it will ensure that you need more than just that to get to Super League in the first place. If you're going to do it, you're going to have to be able to really afford it.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

To an extent I think you have to learn what works for your individual clubs. Other than, spend lots of money on good players, what would someone on the outside take from Leigh last season?

If I was to be frank, and having met a fair few of them, I think the problem with the old system is that these men weren't actually that rich at all (relatively) and couldn't put in the sums needed. For all Fev were "big spenders", they weren't full time, have a consortium of investors, and did not smash everyone they played like Leigh mostly did. This isn't a personal dig, its just that in the world of professional sport, the sums involved are pretty small fry. 

That may discourage some of the "2 bob millionaires" from thinking they will lead a lower league club into Super League, but equally it will ensure that you need more than just that to get to Super League in the first place. If you're going to do it, you're going to have to be able to really afford it.

This is a good point. There's no point blowing £500k for one season in order to reach Super League, if you haven't got the £3m required to solidify yourself there. It's a bit of a fools errand, and as others on here have said is there much in it for fans to watch their team get battered for 27 weeks the next year? If you can afford to build a more long term plan, you can still move up the pyramid - perhaps even more so in the new model. 

That's one reason why Toulouse might be a better bet than London next season, I'm not sure Hughes has the resources (or inclination) any more to be able to do what would be needed next season.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Hull Kingston Bronco
Typo

[Nothus]

So, how many years before Wakey and Fev bite the bullet and do a merger?

 

*ducks for cover*

[roversspud]

32 minutes ago, Nothus said:

So, how many years before Wakey and Fev bite the bullet and do a merger?

 

*ducks for cover*

Never, ever happen.

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

To an extent I think you have to learn what works for your individual clubs. Other than, spend lots of money on good players, what would someone on the outside take from Leigh last season?

If I was to be frank, and having met a fair few of them, I think the problem with the old system is that these men weren't actually that rich at all (relatively) and couldn't put in the sums needed. For all Fev were "big spenders", they weren't full time, have a consortium of investors, and did not smash everyone they played like Leigh mostly did. This isn't a personal dig, its just that in the world of professional sport, the sums involved are pretty small fry. 

That may discourage some of the "2 bob millionaires" from thinking they will lead a lower league club into Super League, but equally it will ensure that you need more than just that to get to Super League in the first place. If you're going to do it, you're going to have to be able to really afford it.

I'd also fling in, as part of the general discussion, that London winning this game and potentially taking a Super League place next season doesn't stop them being a weirdly resourced basket case of a club with no strategic direction and the development strategy of a mayfly.

It just means they can be all that and still get within 80 minutes of European rugby league's top tier.

And I don't think that reflects particularly well on where we are a sport.

[sheddingswasus]

Sadly I think this is wrong. Featherstone won the league at a canter. They should have been promoted. I know they n knew the rules but the top steam should have got promoted and not be robbed over one bad day. 

[Simon Hall]

17 minutes ago, sheddingswasus said:

Sadly I think this is wrong. Featherstone won the league at a canter. They should have been promoted. I know they n knew the rules but the top steam should have got promoted and not be robbed over one bad day. 

No they shouldn't. That isn't the rules of the competition.

[glossop saint]

4 hours ago, Rovers13 said:

My point is who’s going to turn up watch Widnes win league by 30 points get denied promotion for a say Toulouse side who finish 6th lol 

I would expect Widnes to have an equal if not better stadium grading than TO. Maybe TO do better on the finances, I have no idea but I'm not sure there will be too much difference. TO will likely do better on catchment but that isn't a huge score and I'm not sure exactly how that works off the top of my head (County/borough/Council area/etc and whether that includes St Helens or Warrington). So the 2 deciders will be league position and attendance. Ironic if Widnes fans don't turn up to watch their team win the league which means that they then miss out on promotion.

[Tommygilf]

17 minutes ago, sheddingswasus said:

Sadly I think this is wrong. Featherstone won the league at a canter. They should have been promoted. I know they n knew the rules but the top steam should have got promoted and not be robbed over one bad day. 

If it were like that, then the other teams might have pushed harder during the league season and Featherstone might not have finished top.

Leeds have won 8 Super Leagues but just 3 League Leaders Shields. That is the rules.

[sheddingswasus]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

If it were like that, then the other teams might have pushed harder during the league season and Featherstone might not have finished top.

Leeds have won 8 Super Leagues but just 3 League Leaders Shields. That is the rules.

I am not arguing that ou t. I am just saying the league leaders (just as Dewsbury in L1) should be promoted as they won the league. By all means have a playoff for another place. Although the insular selfish SL clubs wouldn’t allow that 

[JohnM]

16 minutes ago, sheddingswasus said:

Sadly I think this is wrong. Featherstone won the league at a canter. They should have been promoted. I know they n knew the rules but the top steam should have got promoted and not be robbed over one bad day. 

They didn't win the league, though. The  winners will be decided when Tououse play London.

All of this is known in advance to each and every club and it is up to each of them to run their season on that basis. That's why for example, early season form isn't necessarily a guide to end of season performance. Maybe teams "coming good" at the end of the season are those who have worked towards it.

[JohnM]

IMG have not just walked in and imposed their scheme. It's been done after extensive consultation, discussion and then by agreement. It's the duty of all clubs to critique it, oppose it , whatever, but once that process is over and the proposal agreed, then all clubs have a duty to to work to that scheme. Yes, work on the inside to develop it, evolve it , etc, but not to sabotage it.

Edited October 9, 2023 by JohnM

[Blind side johnny]

18 hours ago, Steven Grason said:

I do not know how London transformed from average team to the slick unit we saw tonight. Our indiscipline is what cost us. And our discipline has been excellent all year. We have now come top of the championship 5 times and not been promoted. For me, loyalties aside, there is something very wrong with that. IMG will be the death knell of the game as we know it in my opinion.

This system is nothing to do with IMG and they weren't involved the other times that you didn't get promoted.

[Expatknight]

2 hours ago, Simon Hall said:

Some grade A teddy out the pram behaviour from some Fev fans after last night's defeat, it's like they thought it was their God given right to go up this time. Fact is you weren't good enough on the pitch when it mattered (again), nothing to do with the structure of the game or expansion.

Time people at that club looked inwards as to why there's repeated choking when it matters, different coaches & money chucked at players and it's the same result. The whole culture at the club needs to change before success will happen, constantly being arrogant towards other clubs, mickey taking on social media, (minority) fan & club staff behaviour doesn't bring success it just breeds an attitude of not really giving a toss.

Some of the Fev fans really are the best in the game, they actually went and rebuilt the ground with their own hands so there's a core there that are an absolute credit to the town and game, that's what the club should be built around, not the "no one likes us and we don't care" attitude.

I've got a lot of time for James Ford for what he did at York but he was on a hiding to nothing at Fev, I don't think he even really wanted to be there, saying that you get the impression that some of the players don't either and are just there for the cash, they just showed a massive lack of heart when it mattered and money can't buy that.

Sadly as far as Fordy goes it will look as if he has failed which isn’t good for his CV, I too was a big fan when he was at York, he certainly turned the club round along with John Flatman but you HAVE to have the people there with the right attitude and I don’t think that is the case at Featherstone, a bit like a couple of seasons ago whenYork signed a load of ex Super League stars who just didn’t have the heart of the club in them. I hope they don’t sack him over this loss, I think he will do a good job at Fev with his own guys there as long as the buy into his ethos.

[Derwent Parker]

11 minutes ago, sheddingswasus said:

I am not arguing that ou t. I am just saying the league leaders (just as Dewsbury in L1) should be promoted as they won the league. By all means have a playoff for another place. Although the insular selfish SL clubs wouldn’t allow that 

Not only would they not have a second relegated team - they now have IMG who will next season pull up the drawbridge.

[JohnM]

4 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:

Not only would they not have a second relegated team - they now have IMG who will next season pull up the drawbridge.

That's incorrect.