Sun 22 Oct: International: England v Tonga (at Totally Wicked Stadium, St Helens) KO 2.30pm

[Rovers13]

3 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

From the NrL website 

https://www.nrl.com/news/2023/10/23/i-dont-feel-like-they-beat-us-tonga-lament-mistakes-in-first-test-defeat/

Couple of points from this.  1.  Woolf also made comments on the way the game was controlled and 2.  Tonga knew Lewis was a ‘runner’ .

Im quite happy with the bleating

 

I’ve always said if the opposition coach or players moan you know you’ve done something right. 

[eal]

Great to see some high quality international RL. Why don't we put these games on more often?

[hunsletgreenandgold]

I know this conversation has been had many times before, but I really wish it had been a neutral referee. He didn’t have a terrible game but there were mistakes and a couple of them undeniably favoured England. I’m not for a second suggesting Liam Moore did that with any bias in mind, but it does open us up to criticism. Woolf had a thinly veiled dig at the ref allowing England to slow the play down and the general ruck area - so it’s not like we can say it’s just fans saying it. 

[Guest]

A cancelled WC and then a WC.

Before that we played NZ regularly. 

13 minutes ago, eal said:

Great to see some high quality international RL. Why don't we put these games on more often?

 

[Dunbar]

10 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I know this conversation has been had many times before, but I really wish it had been a neutral referee. He didn’t have a terrible game but there were mistakes and a couple of them undeniably favoured England. I’m not for a second suggesting Liam Moore did that with any bias in mind, but it does open us up to criticism. Woolf had a thinly veiled dig at the ref allowing England to slow the play down and the general ruck area - so it’s not like we can say it’s just fans saying it. 

I thought both sides got away with plenty at the ruck.

And on balance I thought Tonga got the better of the calls.

But yes, 100% for neutral referees.

[Hopie]

Thought England went OK today but like every performance under Wane, they tend to drift between good and bad periods, he really needs to learn how to get that high performance as close to 80 minutes as it can be. Not sure our one man rugby was wise, we looked dangerous when we moved the ball well, but constant drives up the middle were regularly ineffective.

Some weaknesses in the team today, both centres not quite up to the high standard required and surely we have better props available to give Burgess more help. However, its nice to see a half back step up and run at the opposition line, even though suspension and injury prevented Wane's first choices playing, I think we got a real look at the future in the halves today.

[meast]

1 hour ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Got lucky in the Glass Horse and managed to nab a table against potentially insurmountable queues and odds ...nice feed and beers 

Shame we were in the non sunny West stand but enjoyed the action and atmosphere 

Family one done now for the boys weekend in Huddy 

You'll love Huddersfield, it's the best town in West, West Yorkshire

[RayCee]

16 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I know this conversation has been had many times before, but I really wish it had been a neutral referee. He didn’t have a terrible game but there were mistakes and a couple of them undeniably favoured England. I’m not for a second suggesting Liam Moore did that with any bias in mind, but it does open us up to criticism. Woolf had a thinly veiled dig at the ref allowing England to slow the play down and the general ruck area - so it’s not like we can say it’s just fans saying it. 

He was just crying wolf. 

[JohnM]

5 minutes ago, RayCee said:

He was just crying wolf. 

Stop it! Go to your room, now!

[JohnM]

24 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I know this conversation has been had many times before, but I really wish it had been a neutral referee. He didn’t have a terrible game but there were mistakes and a couple of them undeniably favoured England. I’m not for a second suggesting Liam Moore did that with any bias in mind, but it does open us up to criticism. Woolf had a thinly veiled dig at the ref allowing England to slow the play down and the general ruck area - so it’s not like we can say it’s just fans saying it. 

I don't agree. Ref did his job properly and fairly.  Unlike Woolf, who can hardly be said to be neutral: just the usual moaning and excuses from the losing coach.

[Rovers13]

16 minutes ago, meast said:

You'll love Huddersfield, it's the best town in West, West Yorkshire

Can tell he’s never been to fev

[crashmon]

2 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Can drive and get parked up from MK to Headingly in 2.5hours....i know that for a fact 

I don't live anywhere near MK.   I live in Surrey.  I'd love to see you get from Egham in Surrey to Leeds in 2.5 hours either by car or train.  Th e people I would bring live in the Guildford, woking, weybridge, walton area's/  I love to see you travel and park up in headingly in 2.5 hous from those places.

Also if I'm in the car for 4 hours I'm going to be stopping at a service station at least once to take a break and get a drink...  You can add 20 - 30 mins on top for that stop.

[Vyvyan]

Thought we got a couple of calls go our way in the second half but a few went against us in the first half.  They even out in the end.  Wolff moaning about slowing down the PTB is a laugh as Tonga had men lying in the ruck all day long.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Vyvyan said:

Thought we got a couple of calls go our way in the second half but a few went against us in the first half.  They even out in the end.  Wolff moaning about slowing down the PTB is a laugh as Tonga had men lying in the ruck all day long.

Yup. My perception was that Tonga were far worse. 

[dkw]

Tonga got by far the biggest call of tge game with that nonsense obstruction decision, plus we're slowing tackles down from the 50th minute.

[Rovers13]

12 minutes ago, dkw said:

Tonga got by far the biggest call of tge game with that nonsense obstruction decision, plus we're slowing tackles down from the 50th minute.

This for me too I’ve been watching game years and for some reason this season the obstruction rule passes me by, for me it was obstruction we need to have clear rules on this because Wigan Leigh game I thought both were obstructions too one given one wasn’t. For me if an attacker goes into the defensive line and makes contact it’s obstruction for me. Whether the defender is at fault or not because if he doesn’t make that tackle we would be saying why didn’t you tackle him today. They train all the time these plays so no attacker should be over running a pass. 

Edited October 22, 2023 by Rovers13

[UTK]

Just finished up watching on delay, very good test.

As I'd predicted at the start of the thread, Woolf selecting Hopoate at fullback killed any chance of an upset, bloke was absolutely putrid and is 1/10th the player of Koula at this point in time. Don't see this changing given Hoppa senior is obviously well-involved in that setup and Woolf loves junior despite the overwhelming evidence against him. Forward rotations were pretty poor, Olakau'atu is arguably their best backrower yet didn't see the field for the first 52 minutes 

Mikey Lewis - what a debut, he absolutely killed Tonga on that edge was MOTM without doubt. Loved seeing his post-game interview and him interacting with what was presumably his family in the crowd. 

England's middles were stellar against a quality Tonga side - Matty Lees in particular led linespeed through that first 20 and brought AFB and Fotuaika to a halt, Burgess and McMeeken the strongest carrying the ball, Hill probably the only weak link in the middle. 

TJ was brilliant, King defended very well alongside him given how much Tonga sent down that edge - wasn't much danger of Harry Smith making a tackle on his own so he effectively had to cover both the centre and the backrower which was no small task against Koloamatangi and Penisini.

 

Only complaint is that I've gotta wait a week til the next game.

[Pie tries]

Loved seeing international rugby league on the Beeb !

Great game, all players fabulous, Mikey Lewis - take a bow.

More please !!

Are Tonga playing France?

[north yorks trinity]

5 hours ago, Tre Cool said:

You must live way south of London for it to take 4 hours. A coach from MK to Leeds is like £30 and takes max 3 hrs.

The second sentence is true but bears no relation to the first one which isn't.  

On the day of the Leeds test I've just found a coach from Finchley Road (which isn't way south of London, or even south of London) to Leeds leaving at 08:30 and arriving at 12:35 in central Leeds

[north yorks trinity]

5 hours ago, Gomersall said:

That’s a bit dramatic mate. If the Kangaroos tour in the next few years I’d expect them to make sure one game is in London.

The kangaroos actually tour???

[north yorks trinity]

5 hours ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Mikey Lewis simply has to play for me next week btw 

Hands off. England have first dibs.

Edit: Sorry, I see Bob Bruce got in about 5 hours before me, though TBF I was driving on the M62 at that point.

Edited October 22, 2023 by north yorks trinity

[hunsletgreenandgold]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

I thought both sides got away with plenty at the ruck.

And on balance I thought Tonga got the better of the calls.

But yes, 100% for neutral referees.

I think the main things that were noticeable to me were Moore not picking up on barely an English foot attempting to play the ball (apart from some of our NRL contingent) compared to Tonga. We know SL is lazy with that but can’t be let go at international level imo. Then, as per Woolf’s alleged ‘analysis’ in his presser - it did feel like Tonga were being called off tackles and/or giving away repeat sets for less holding down than England. Woolf reckons a full second difference on average - I’d be interested to see that analysis. There was a pretty blatant obstruction/crossing that nearly saw Burgess go over. As I say, these are all common game issues but you invite this level of scrutiny when the referee not only referees in a league where most of one team play, but is also from that country. Surely wouldn’t have been hard to get an Aus/NZ ref.

 

edit: not unsurprisingly the first NRL article I’ve seen about the game focuses on AFB and Woolf not been happy about the calls they did/didn’t get. I know teams moan when they lose but I myself raised this because I think there’s some merit in them feeling slightly aggrieved. The worry now is whoever refs next week will have all this going on in their mind, no matter how professional they are. 
https://www.nrl.com/news/2023/10/23/i-dont-feel-like-they-beat-us-tonga-lament-mistakes-in-first-test-defeat/

Edited October 22, 2023 by hunsletgreenandgold

[phiggins]

39 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

This for me too I’ve been watching game years and for some reason this season the obstruction rule passes me by, for me it was obstruction we need to have clear rules on this because Wigan Leigh game I thought both were obstructions too one given one wasn’t. For me if an attacker goes into the defensive line and makes contact it’s obstruction for me. Whether the defender is at fault or not because if he doesn’t make that tackle we would be saying why didn’t you tackle him today. They train all the time these plays so no attacker should be over running a pass. 

You want to ban dummy runners?

(Both tries were disallowed in the Leigh - Wigan game btw)

[Chris22]

Very enjoyable test match today. It is such a huge benefit to the international game that it is no longer just three nations who can be competitive at the top level. With a match under their belts, a Tonga win next week would not be a surprise at all.

Lewis was the stand out for me, a brilliant debut. Loved his interview at the end, good on him for being willing to show how much it meant. I didn't particularly like Shaun Wane's faux-perfectionism when discussing Lewis' performance, which I thought showed poor man management. Welsby and McMeeken were also very good.

That game could have gone either way and sets us up for another couple of decent tests. The best test series build as they go through and today laid a very solid foundation.

Edited October 22, 2023 by Chris22

[unapologetic pedant]

39 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

 For me if an attacker goes into the defensive line and makes contact it’s obstruction for me.

Onus is on the defender to adjust. If he can but doesn't, it's a poor read. If he can't, tough luck. Being tackled off the ball is not obstruction.