Rose-tinted spectacles

[Cerulean]

I listened enthralled to my grandfather (born 1897, a family from Ireland, working as navvies in the Midlands, moving to the northern coalfields at the turn of the century, himself working down the mine  a week before his 12th birthday). He was captivated by this wonderful new sport, immersed himself in it, and shared tales of Harold Wagstaff, Hunslet’s “Terrible Six”, the four cups, T’old Tin Pot and the county matches. He was at Odsal in 1954. Lions and Kangaroo tours. And so much more.

My grandchildren have no interest in the game, in spite of living within sight of one of the game’s iconic grounds, so I have no one to pass on my stories: streams of coaches on the M1 on Wembley day, the exploits of Roger Millward, Alex Murphy, Paul Charlton, Paul Newlove, Martin Offiah, “Alfie” Langer; 30,000 crowds at Wakefield, 30 different ground to visit. And so much more.

For the younger ones, what will your tales be to your grandchildren as they help on the allotment on a Saturday morning? Perhaps glittering nights at Old Trafford at the end of the season, the astonishing stamina and endurance of Graham and Roby, the footwork of Tomkins, the attacking intervention of the best Australian full-backs. And so much more. It would be good to know.

 

The “rose-tinted spectacles” comment is employed to reinforce an argument, score points, win “likes”, and is brought in to be purposefully offensive in an environment very much lacking in respect. It would be nice if better discussion techniques were used.

[welshmagpie]

A young chap called Lee Briers giving Australian’s a masterclass in game management in both 2000 and 2011.

 

[Midlands hobo]

A coach full of rag tag crusaders fans driving to odsal in a monsoon to see them get their first SL win.

 

[rhinos78]

A Headingley evening watching The right edge of Kevin Iro and Jim Fallon, tormenting Wigan en route to a rare Leeds victory against one of the best club sides ever

[Cerulean]

Carl Dooler, spotting a break from the scrum, to score against Leeds and take Rovers to Wembley, semi-final 1967, at Fartown. I can play it in my head as if a high definition video. Then amongst 76,000 at Wembley, Tom Brophy's early try to put Barrow in the lead I can see clearly, but the rest is, oddly, something of a blur.

[fieldofclothofgold]

1 hour ago, Cerulean said:

I listened enthralled to my grandfather (born 1897, a family from Ireland, working as navvies in the Midlands, moving to the northern coalfields at the turn of the century, himself working down the mine  a week before his 12th birthday). He was captivated by this wonderful new sport, immersed himself in it, and shared tales of Harold Wagstaff, Hunslet’s “Terrible Six”, the four cups, T’old Tin Pot and the county matches. He was at Odsal in 1954. Lions and Kangaroo tours. And so much more.

My grandchildren have no interest in the game, in spite of living within sight of one of the game’s iconic grounds, so I have no one to pass on my stories: streams of coaches on the M1 on Wembley day, the exploits of Roger Millward, Alex Murphy, Paul Charlton, Paul Newlove, Martin Offiah, “Alfie” Langer; 30,000 crowds at Wakefield, 30 different ground to visit. And so much more.

For the younger ones, what will your tales be to your grandchildren as they help on the allotment on a Saturday morning? Perhaps glittering nights at Old Trafford at the end of the season, the astonishing stamina and endurance of Graham and Roby, the footwork of Tomkins, the attacking intervention of the best Australian full-backs. And so much more. It would be good to know.

 

The “rose-tinted spectacles” comment is employed to reinforce an argument, score points, win “likes”, and is brought in to be purposefully offensive in an environment very much lacking in respect. It would be nice if better discussion techniques were used.

As a little lad in 1950s not many had TVs and not many had one.not on our estate any way soccer was only on on CUPFINAL day . Rugby league was the only game in town in west Leeds beyond Armley from Bramley over the river Kirkstall Burley road area meanwood woodhouse etc .only thing about football I'd knew about was John Charles going to Juventus etc . Even lads who attended football schools still played RL in streets and the park Headingley just up the Hill Barley Mow up the other hill . We talked about Boston , Bevan ,Jones  Stivvy, I remember sitting on the straw in 1957 Leeds 13 Wigan 11 38000 attendance Boston scoring 2 length of field tries . 

Times change but cherish the memories 

[Expatknight]

3 minutes ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

As a little lad in 1950s not many had TVs and not many had one.not on our estate any way soccer was only on on CUPFINAL day . Rugby league was the only game in town in west Leeds beyond Armley from Bramley over the river Kirkstall Burley road area meanwood woodhouse etc .only thing about football I'd knew about was John Charles going to Juventus etc . Even lads who attended football schools still played RL in streets and the park Headingley just up the Hill Barley Mow up the other hill . We talked about Boston , Bevan ,Jones  Stivvy, I remember sitting on the straw in 1957 Leeds 13 Wigan 11 38000 attendance Boston scoring 2 length of field tries . 

Times change but cherish the memories 

Talking of straw, going down to Clarence street to help clear the straw off the pitch on wintry Sunday mornings so the game can be played, the hired floodlights when we played the Australian tourists, going to Odsal on a foggy night when you could barely see half the pitch, or going to Headingly and watching Mick Maketo ‘the panty hose prop’ tearing the loiners apart. Happy days, life was much simpler then.

[Cerulean]

8 minutes ago, fieldofclothofgold said:

 ...I remember sitting on the straw ...

Times change but cherish the memories 

Yes, remember that at a couple of grounds.

[Cerulean]

47 minutes ago, Midlands hobo said:

A coach full of rag tag crusaders fans driving to odsal in a monsoon to see them get their first SL win.

 

Took my nephew down to Bridgend, hours of traffic, arrived just in time for a much needed pint in the pub nearest to the ground and asked for a pint of Brains. "Brains is off today" I was told.

[Andy JG]

My greatest childhood memory is being taken to the 1978 Challenge Cup Final, Leeds v St Helens by my uncle and auntie, who were staunch Saints fans.  I was aged 11. 

My first time at Wembley, and recall the journey down on a chartered train from St Helens Shaw Street. In one of those carriages with a corridor and individual compartments.

The size of the stadium, the atmosphere 96,000 crowd, but above all the quality of the match. I think it beats the 1985 Final (which I attended also) for excitement and drama with a 2nd half Leeds comeback.

It is available in full on youtube and it stands up against anything you see today; i've watched it many times, and love the different attacking lines of play and the contested scrums. Brilliant stuff.    

[Big Picture]

 

@Cerulean  have you asked your grandchildren why they're not interested in the game?

If the same is true across the heartland the reason why the younger generation isn't interested is key to working out how to broaden the game's appeal.

[Cerulean]

14 hours ago, Big Picture said:

 

@Cerulean  have you asked your grandchildren why they're not interested in the game?

If the same is true across the heartland the reason why the younger generation isn't interested is key to working out how to broaden the game's appeal.

It’s always worth investigating why kids - and others - take an interest in a sport sufficient to invest time, money, and enthusiasm in it.

I may have been unaware of comparative existences as a child, but for me it was an escape from a cold, grey, impoverished 1950s world; the sport a massive part of the town’s life, an activity to become immersed in, played in streets and gardens and parks and playgrounds; free, always available; the professional game a pinnacle of what we did, cheap to access, local heroes, thrilling, a gateway to other places and other names; the beginnings of ambition in general, and identifiable pathways for progress in the sport.

Clearly a world long gone, so I’m not worth asking. But do ask those of today’s world what it would take to encourage them to invest time, money, and long-term enthusiasm in this activity which, after all, is just one of thousands of other activities seeking to capture young attention. In other words - and here’s a thread you could start - what are the game’s USPs, and are they equally applicable in established areas and areas chosen for development?

[Dunbar]

My greatest childhood memory of Rugby League is the first ever game I attended.

Despite growing up just outside of Wigan, I didn't know too much about the game as a young boy.  My father was from Swindon and a big football fan and we would go and see Swindon play when they visited the Lancashire and West Yorkshire teams.  I enjoyed the days and especially enjoyed them when the Town won as it made my Dad happy.  But I never really got in the game and would kind of drift off during the 90 minutes.

Then, as a 13/14 year old, a school friend who played Rugby League asked me if I wanted to go along and train / play.  I did and I immediately loved it, the physical nature of the game suited me perfectly.

I asked my Dad if he would take me to a professional game and we went to the 1984 Lancashire Cup final.  It was the first time I had seen professional Rugby League played and I was awe struck at the size, strength and skill of these players.  I probably would have been anyway but it helped that Saints had a certain Mal Meninga playing in the centre and I had never seen a human being so big, so strong and so fast before.  I was sat on the wall of Central Park and in front of me he handed off a young Shaun Edwards.  He was like something from a super hero movie.

I knew from that first training session and my first game that I was now a Rugby League player and I knew from that first game I attended I would be a Rugby League fan for the rest of my life.  And almost 40 years later, I am (a fan now, not a player!).

Edited December 12, 2023 by Dunbar

[Cheadle Leyther]

The whole season of 1981/2, when a Leigh team containing mainly local lads won the title with only 5 defeats - unlikely to happen again with no academy allowed.

[Cerulean]

If the weather was at all decent, my son and I would drive up on a Saturday to camp in Langdale for the night, then over the pass and on to a match in Cumbria on the Sunday. It was always further than we'd thought. We certainly felt that we'd earned a game. Wonderful memories.

[Wigan Riversider]

53 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

My greatest childhood memory of Rugby League is the first ever game I attended.

Despite growing up just outside of Wigan, I didn't know too much about the game as a young boy.  My father was from Swindon and a big football fan and we would go and see Swindon play when they visited the Lancashire and West Yorkshire teams.  I enjoyed the days and especially enjoyed them when the Town won as it made my Dad happy.  But I never really got in the game and would kind of drift off during the 90 minutes.

Then, as a 13/14 year old, a school friend who played Rugby League asked me if I wanted to go along and train / play.  I did and I immediately loved it, the physical nature of the game suited me perfectly.

I asked my Dad if he would take me to a professional game and we went to the 1984 Lancashire Cup final.  It was the first time I had seen professional Rugby League played and I was awe struck at the size, strength and skill of these players.  I probably would have been anyway but it helped that Saints had a certain Mal Meninga playing in the centre and I had never seen a human being so big, so strong and so fast before.  I was sat on the wall of Central Park and in front of me he handed off a young Shaun Edwards.  He was like something from a super hero movie.

I knew from that first training session and my first game that I was now a Rugby League player and I knew from that first game I attended I would be a Rugby League fan for the rest of my life.  And almost 40 years later, I am (a fan now, not a player!).

I remember the hostility in the ground that afternoon and yes, Mal Meninga was unstoppable too!!

[gingerjon]

I've said this before but it's one of the ones that makes me smile.

My great-grandad (who I never met) took my great-grandma to Watersheddings when they were courting. The first tackle came crunching in and she turned, appalled, and said to him, "But they're hurting each other."

Some ninety years later, I took Tiny Ginger to his first non-Olympics live sport: Hemel v Oldham.

The first tackle went in. He turns to me shocked and says, "But they're hurting each other."

[bobbruce]

56 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

My greatest childhood memory of Rugby League is the first ever game I attended.

Despite growing up just outside of Wigan, I didn't know too much about the game as a young boy.  My father was from Swindon and a big football fan and we would go and see Swindon play when they visited the Lancashire and West Yorkshire teams.  I enjoyed the days and especially enjoyed them when the Town won as it made my Dad happy.  But I never really got in the game and would kind of drift off during the 90 minutes.

Then, as a 13/14 year old, a school friend who played Rugby League asked me if I wanted to go along and train / play.  I did and I immediately loved it, the physical nature of the game suited me perfectly.

I asked my Dad if he would take me to a professional game and we went to the 1984 Lancashire Cup final.  It was the first time I had seen professional Rugby League played and I was awe struck at the size, strength and skill of these players.  I probably would have been anyway but it helped that Saints had a certain Mal Meninga playing in the centre and I had never seen a human being so big, so strong and so fast before.  I was sat on the wall of Central Park and in front of me he handed off a young Shaun Edwards.  He was like something from a super hero movie.

I knew from that first training session and my first game that I was now a Rugby League player and I knew from that first game I attended I would be a Rugby League fan for the rest of my life.  And almost 40 years later, I am (a fan now, not a player!).

Great game to go to for your first game Meninga was an absolute beast in that and the premiership final that year. 

[JohnM]

My late parents had, and my children and grandchildren have, absolutely no interest in rugby league, rugby union, soccer, or dwile flunking in any way shape or form. 

As a youth, I was encouraged and supported in following the game - and playing at a very low level - but the interest never shared, despite (or because of) my dad knowing people like Bryn and Jack Evans, Peter Smethurst, Peter Norburn.

Jack Evans was a "gentle giant" as  I recall seeing him on the dance floor at some Ladies Evening somewhere or other in the 1950s.

One memorable incident: my dad's ill-humour in having to drive (late 1950s early 1960s) pre-motorway to Wigan to fetch me from Central Park as I'd lost my train ticket after a Wigan/Swinton game and as usual I was too skint to buy another. 

[Spotty Herbert]

What a superb thread.

I will bore my grandkids (who are in Scotland, so at risk of not appreciating the greatest game) rigid with stories of Roy Powell's tackling, Ellery's incredible skills and that night in Huddersfield in 2015 when Ryan Hall chased a speculative kick and a helicopter had to turn round.

And many, many more .........

[Big Picture]

On 12/12/2023 at 10:50, Cerulean said:

It’s always worth investigating why kids - and others - take an interest in a sport sufficient to invest time, money, and enthusiasm in it.

I may have been unaware of comparative existences as a child, but for me it was an escape from a cold, grey, impoverished 1950s world; the sport a massive part of the town’s life, an activity to become immersed in, played in streets and gardens and parks and playgrounds; free, always available; the professional game a pinnacle of what we did, cheap to access, local heroes, thrilling, a gateway to other places and other names; the beginnings of ambition in general, and identifiable pathways for progress in the sport.

Clearly a world long gone, so I’m not worth asking. But do ask those of today’s world what it would take to encourage them to invest time, money, and long-term enthusiasm in this activity which, after all, is just one of thousands of other activities seeking to capture young attention. In other words - and here’s a thread you could start - what are the game’s USPs, and are they equally applicable in established areas and areas chosen for development?

I think you misunderstood my question, I was asking whether you've asked your grandchildren why they're not interested.  I think you gave me the answer in your observations about social change in Britain though. 

Back then RL was well accepted despite its small time ways because heartland residents had nothing to compare it with. And even if they'd been able to make comparisons, back then the differences between the RL's offering and those of other British sports weren't overly great.

As you pointed out that's not how things are now though.  Technology has brought other options to the attention of heartlanders, and the offerings of competing sports are much better (and more cosmopolitan) now than they were back then; Man U vs Preston or Bolton has been replaced by Man U vs Barcelona or Bayern Munich, in a stadium much improved compared to what it offered then.

RL hasn't kept up with that change, its offering remains essentially the same as it was back in the day and unfortunately that doesn't measure up too well against the competition.  Unless I'm mistaken that's why so many of the children and grandchildren of the RL players and fans of yesteryear aren't interested in the game.

[Gooleboy]

The 1983 Challenge Cup Final and a Championship winning Hull side with their world class Kiwi contingent in their team, while the nearest we had to an overseas star was Steve Quinn, all the way from York!

[Harry Stottle]

Nothing particular of any player or team and I have hundreds of those.

But I do miss the times stood on the terraces, wearing umpteen layers, banging my feet on floor to get the circulation going, getting a hot drink oxo/bovril or the like at half time, and witnessing the steam rising from the players when they formed the scrum, call me strange but I enjoyed 'winter' rugby.

I never wanted the pro game to move to 'summer' but the biggest disappointment was when the amateurs followed suit west of the pennines and  also moved to summer, it was a great disappointment not to have year round rugby.

I argued with a number of folk at the time that it would do the amateur side of the sport  no good in the long run, they said the opposite would happen more kids and juniors would turn up in summer than in the winter and the open age would be better for it, not playing on muddy fields, I argued that the women folk would want to do something to go out, take holidays etc when the sun is shining, they would not be bothered when it was cold and damp and less would play the sport it irks to say to them, told you so.

[Dunbar]

3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

I argued with a number of folk at the time that it would do the amateur side of the sport  no good in the long run, they said the opposite would happen more kids and juniors would turn up in summer than in the winter and the open age would be better for it, not playing on muddy fields, I argued that the women folk would want to do something to go out, take holidays etc when the sun is shining, they would not be bothered when it was cold and damp and less would play the sport it irks to say to them, told you so.

This is not a single factor issue though, participation in most organised team sports has reduced considerably.

In fact, there is a pretty strong argument to say that the switch to summer has helped Rugby League in comparison to peer sports.

The switch to summer Rugby League for the community game happened in 2012 I believe.  According to the Sport England Active Lives survey, which measures adult participation in sporting activities, Rugby League has seen 'No change' in participation from its baseline in 2015 to 2022 while both Football and Rugby Union, which have remained winter sports, have each seen a 'Significant decrease' in participation over the same period.

[sam4731]

Growing up in London, I'd never really heard of rugby league. I moved up north in 2013 for uni and met my now wife. She is from St Helens and I went to my first Saints game on 2014. The game in question was the WCC against the bunnies. I was engrossed. A sold out Langtree Park, fireworks, lights and Russell Crowe had even missed the Oscars to be there. Yes we lost 39-0 but I didn't care, I was hooked. Imagine my disappointment a few weeks later, watching us play Cas on a cold Friday night in front of a half empty stadium.

That's one for the grandkids but the story for my 7 month old baby when he grows up is his first match at just 4 weeks old, with us beating Wigan again in front of a sold out stadium in the blazing sunshine.