2024 attendance thread

[Tre Cool]

At what point do KR become the biggest club in Hull? FC are a basket case.

Edited April 4 by Tre Cool

[dboy]

1 hour ago, East Hull Robins said:

It’s a bit strange the reaction I must admit. 
 

 

 

It's not a strange reaction.

HKRs approach suggests jiggerypokery at best and dishonesty at worst.

People constantly call for openness and transparency - let's see it with timely and honest attendance announcements.

[dkw]

12 minutes ago, dboy said:

It's not a strange reaction.

HKRs approach suggests jiggerypokery at best and dishonesty at worst.

People constantly call for openness and transparency - let's see it with timely and honest attendance announcements.

Thats incredibly disingenuous, just because they dont do something you want them to do that doesnt automatically mean "jiggerypokery at best and dishonesty at worst." 

[Worzel]

13 hours ago, dboy said:

Bunkum.

1. Yes, it literally IS the IMG metric.

2. No, only persons in attendance is the, ya know, attendance.

3. That's just a word soup - no idea what you think you are trying to say there.

1. No it isn’t. Some clubs publish sales after each match (including all members whether they attended or not, because they don’t have the tech to strip that out that quickly), some publish actual attendees.

2. The debate is whether frees or heavy discounts should be weighted in the IMG attendance metric. It’s relevant.

3. No, it isn’t. Hull KR think things like ticket yield, membership growth, corporate sales and other club performance metrics are useful, and want to communicate them together when they do so. This is what they did last year. 

Rovers have no obligation to publish attendees weekly. They do publish it frequently though, and the fact rugby league trainspotters get annoyed by this isn’t our problem.

[Dave T]

34 minutes ago, Worzel said:

 

2. The debate is whether frees or heavy discounts should be weighted in the IMG attendance metric. It’s relevant.

 

I can understand a debate around attendees vs sold, but I absolutely think discounted and freebies that attend should form part of it. IMHO anyone who comes through the turnstyle should count. 

If we start to be too strict around discounts, it doesn't really work as all clubs charge different amounts anyway.

[Worzel]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I can understand a debate around attendees vs sold, but I absolutely think discounted and freebies that attend should form part of it. IMHO anyone who comes through the turnstyle should count. 

If we start to be too strict around discounts, it doesn't really work as all clubs charge different amounts anyway.

I think the point is if "attendance" is an IMG points metric, and clubs are able to inflate it, then that needs to be managed properly. Otherwise some clubs will just game the system... not using frees or incentives as a genuine growth plan, but purely to game the points system. You only have to read about Castleford's "plan B" stadium approach to know that some clubs are wholly missing the point, and see it as box ticking rather than a framework for genuine progress.  

There is less than 1/2 point between the club in 11th and the club in 14th in the provisional gradings, so this isn't some academic exercise it has consequences. It doesn't impact Hull KR, because the club is doing the right things for the right reasons over the long term, but it does impact others. 

 

 

[Josef K]

The Saints attendance Vs wigan last Friday was up 892 on the 2023 match. 

[Dave T]

36 minutes ago, Worzel said:

I think the point is if "attendance" is an IMG points metric, and clubs are able to inflate it, then that needs to be managed properly. Otherwise some clubs will just game the system... not using frees or incentives as a genuine growth plan, but purely to game the points system. You only have to read about Castleford's "plan B" stadium approach to know that some clubs are wholly missing the point, and see it as box ticking rather than a framework for genuine progress.  

There is less than 1/2 point between the club in 11th and the club in 14th in the provisional gradings, so this isn't some academic exercise it has consequences. It doesn't impact Hull KR, because the club is doing the right things for the right reasons over the long term, but it does impact others. 

 

 

I think there can be a tendency to over-complicate things and over-engineer stuff (we do it every day at work and it drives me mad). 

If we are going to use such basic measures as bums on seats, then that's how it should be. I understand that it can be distorted with say, a free game that brings in 10k and adds 1k average for the season at some clubs, but I do also think that as long as those people are in the ground, I don't mind it. 

I think looking at it in the round would see it come back to be a problem on finances if clubs play it too much.

I think the attendance measure is so basic anyway, we don't need to overcomplicate it.

[meast]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I can understand a debate around attendees vs sold, but I absolutely think discounted and freebies that attend should form part of it. IMHO anyone who comes through the turnstyle should count. 

If we start to be too strict around discounts, it doesn't really work as all clubs charge different amounts anyway.

I was always under the impression that "attendance", there's a clue in the name, was the actual amount of people who went through the turnstiles, rather than the amount of people who paid for a full price ticket?

Maybe this is where Hull KR are going?

I'm not sure, but I do find it strange that since IMG announced the grading points that they have taken this measure, that's fine, it's up to them how they do their business, but it just seems odd that they have decided now that attendance figures aren't important.

I agree with others that think normalising this isn't strange, it is, IMO.

It's like Hull KR have gone " ooh look at us, we're going to use business like clever wording to get around publicising our attendance figures, aren't we big and clever"  

 

On another note, I find the whole notion of including season ticket and free tickets distributed who don't attend as part of the attendance as weird too!

[sweaty craiq]

In the summer era most fans will miss 2 or more games per annum so in our case at Leigh that’s 10000 over 13 games or 700+ per game

[dboy]

4 hours ago, dkw said:

Thats incredibly disingenuous, just because they dont do something you want them to do that doesnt automatically mean "jiggerypokery at best and dishonesty at worst." 

If you're going to use big words, at least google them first to check what they mean.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

7 hours ago, JM2010 said:

I’m not sure why people are moaning about Hull KR. They’re doing a lot of things right

Certainly a lot more than a certain club to the West of them!

[dkw]

2 hours ago, dboy said:

If you're going to use big words, at least google them first to check what they mean.

"Someone who is disingenuous is slightly dishonest and insincere in what they say"

Seems pretty apt to me.

[dboy]

I am completely honest and sincere when I state that a club hiding it's actual attendances are being unnecessarily vague, misleading or dishonest.

My beliefs are not in any way disingenuous.  

I'd suggest anyone blithely accepting HKRs nonsensical, word-soup, non-explanations and justifications are indeed being disingenuous.  

[JonM]

Melbourne v Brisbane Broncos today 20 698

Parra vs Wests Tigers on Monday was 28 608

[Damien]

Sellout crowd of 10,308 at Leigh.

[meast]

56 minutes ago, Damien said:

Sellout crowd of 10,308 at Leigh.

Lots of empty spaces even upto the 65 minute mark, how come?

[The 4 of Us]

22 minutes ago, meast said:

Lots of empty spaces even upto the 65 minute mark, how come?

Having a pee, eating a burger, missed the train?

[Leyther_Matt]

28 minutes ago, meast said:

Lots of empty spaces even upto the 65 minute mark, how come?

Non attending season ticket holders more than likely, particularly the ones near the halfway line

[meast]

59 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Non attending season ticket holders more than likely, particularly the ones near the halfway line

There was loads of empty spaces in the Wigan end as well.

[Leyther_Matt]

6 hours ago, meast said:

There was loads of empty spaces in the Wigan end as well.

Unreserved seating so 10% left empty would explain most of those. It’s quite a ’zoomed’ camera position at LSV so every empty seat is more visible in comparison to other grounds with a higher gantry etc.

Wigan had a good chunk of the East Stand too so I certainly won’t be criticising their numbers, even though plenty of them would have been able to walk home after the game. 

[M j M]

Why wouldn't they just sell reserved seating for this game? 

[Farmduck]

Expect the crowds in Sydney to take a hit this week with heavy rain Thursday, Friday and possibly Saturday.

Quote

The NSW State Emergency Service (SES) is advising people to stay indoors and avoid unnecessary travel as significant rainfall impacts much of the NSW east coast.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-04-05/nsw-queensland-wet-weather-forecast-flood-warning-live-update/103670440

[meast]

1 hour ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Unreserved seating so 10% left empty would explain most of those. It’s quite a ’zoomed’ camera position at LSV so every empty seat is more visible in comparison to other grounds with a higher gantry etc.

Wigan had a good chunk of the East Stand too so I certainly won’t be criticising their numbers, even though plenty of them would have been able to walk home after the game. 

Not criticising at all, it's a good crowd, just wondered how so many places were sold, but unused that's all.

[sweaty craiq]

10 hours ago, meast said:

Lots of empty spaces even upto the 65 minute mark, how come?

South stand - Wigan end -  is not allocated seating therefore 200 empty seats when sold out. You always get a few seats empty in the West as these are allocated to 'diners' in corporate who may decide to stay indoors and watch on TV or through the glass