Hull FC bought by Multi-Millionaire partnership

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

How much does it cost to maintain a stadium?

[jacksy]

This may be of interest to some.

Our new owners have looked at the agreement we have with the SMC. And have said they do not wish to alter it.

In fact, they seemed very pleased with it.

Edited November 14, 2024 by jacksy

[Gooleboy]

5 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

“Work in progress” - I hope my (unborn as yet) grandchildren are around to see Belle Vue meeting the Framing the Future targets. 

Framing the Future. I bet a copy of that is rarer than Fly Fishing by JR Hartley!

Edited November 14, 2024 by Gooleboy

[George Watt]

5 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

My all time off the top of my head favourite Hull FC team: 

Kemble Eastwood Schofield Leuluai Horne (if he’s good enough for GB on the wing…) Topliss Sterling

Skerrett Swain Crooks Crane Knocker Smith 

They have had so many greats. 

If I were to name mine from first watching/supporting them from 1945 to now, maybe a couple of the above would be included.

[Exiled Wiganer]

10 hours ago, George Watt said:

If I were to name mine from first watching/supporting them from 1945 to now, maybe a couple of the above would be included.

It was off the top of my head somewhat, and I would be interested in seeing yours.

You will see that mine went from the early 80s. Might Knocker, Schofield and Sterling make the cut? If not, the better player must have been something. 
Last year, my auntie - whose season ticket I am about to renew - picked her favourite 13 of Wigan players she had seen. She started going to games in 1932 so had a lot to choose from. 
 

[Padge]

22 hours ago, Agbrigg said:

For years I looked at other SL clubs with envy playing in their brand new stadia. Things now seemed to have come full circle. Clubs sharing with soccer wanting to quit as they realise this is far from ideal. Belle Vue is a dump but work in progress to sort it out. However surely the stadium being 100% owned by the club , with no other tenants or stadium companies involved is by far the best business model.

Not really, if a clubs owners get into financial trouble, and the club goes into administration, the biggest financial asset is the stadium. Administrators will look to sell the ground to pay off debts leaving the club homeless as when this happens the ground is sold for a purpose other than sport. Separating the club and the ground avoids this scenario.

Sports stadia are expensive to run and maintain using it once a fortnight for half of the year is not going to give you a good return on your investment. Sports clubs are notoriously bad at running and maintaining stadia, hence we have a lot of rotting old infrastructure requiring a lot of money to bring up to standard. When it comes to where the money goes clubs will always pick the team first, thus a blind eye is turned to the stadium.

A stadium company has only one focus (legaly bound) and that is to make money for the stadiums shareholders that means maximising all usage and sales. This is another thing sports clubs are utterly useless at as their focus is on the team.

I'll put a small wager on when Belle Vue development is finished it is put under the control of a stadium company and not the club.

 

 

[M j M]

10 minutes ago, Padge said:

Not really, if a clubs owners get into financial trouble, and the club goes into administration, the biggest financial asset is the stadium. Administrators will look to sell the ground to pay off debts leaving the club homeless as when this happens the ground is sold for a purpose other than sport. Separating the club and the ground avoids this scenario.

Sports stadia are expensive to run and maintain using it once a fortnight for half of the year is not going to give you a good return on your investment. Sports clubs are notoriously bad at running and maintaining stadia, hence we have a lot of rotting old infrastructure requiring a lot of money to bring up to standard. When it comes to where the money goes clubs will always pick the team first, thus a blind eye is turned to the stadium.

A stadium company has only one focus (legaly bound) and that is to make money for the stadiums shareholders that means maximising all usage and sales. This is another thing sports clubs are utterly useless at as their focus is on the team.

I'll put a small wager on when Belle Vue development is finished it is put under the control of a stadium company and not the club.

 

 

Warrington and Saints stadia are part of the same groups as the operating club, the shareholders are the same so it's not really separate in that sense. I'd be surprised if Wakefield moved the asset out of their trading company, if that's where it currently lives.

[Taffy Tiger]

19 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

My all time off the top of my head favourite Hull FC team: 

Kemble Eastwood Schofield Leuluai Horne (if he’s good enough for GB on the wing…) Topliss Sterling

Skerrett Swain Crooks Crane Knocker Smith 

They have had so many greats. 

From a Cas fan's point of view my favourite FC squad ever would have to be last year's 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

4 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

It was off the top of my head somewhat, and I would be interested in seeing yours.

You will see that mine went from the early 80s. Might Knocker, Schofield and Sterling make the cut? If not, the better player must have been something. 
Last year, my auntie - whose season ticket I am about to renew - picked her favourite 13 of Wigan players she had seen. She started going to games in 1932 so had a lot to choose from. 
 

Remember seeing Sterling give one of the finest half back displays I've ever witnessed in a cup quarter final replay at Naughton Park.

[Old Frightful]

1 hour ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

Remember seeing Sterling give one of the finest half back displays I've ever witnessed in a cup quarter final replay at Naughton Park.

I was at that one, we won 13-19 if memory serves with Knocker dropping a goal late on to put the game out of your lot's reach.

[Superb Chops]

20 hours ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

How much does it cost to maintain a stadium?

Millions if you don't keep on top of things.

With £8m currently quoted for Wigan's stadium by a locally regarded poster, bottom message. 

https://forums.rlfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=649034

Worryingly, the Brick Stadium only opened 25 years ago. 

[Padge]

3 hours ago, M j M said:

Warrington and Saints stadia are part of the same groups as the operating club, the shareholders are the same so it's not really separate in that sense. I'd be surprised if Wakefield moved the asset out of their trading company, if that's where it currently lives.

The way it works is company A is separated from company B, the shareholders can be anybody, but as ltd companies assets of A cannot be used to pay the debts of B.

[Ullman]

20 hours ago, Jill Halfpenny fan said:

How much does it cost to maintain a stadium?

A heck of a lot.

Especially when they get beyond twenty years old and the floodlights fall over.

[Worzel]

2 minutes ago, Padge said:

The way it works is company A is separated from company B, the shareholders can be anybody, but as ltd companies assets of A cannot be used to pay the debts of B.

Precisely this. Hull KR have separate companies for the club and the property development venture around the stadium for precisely this reason, but the articles of the property company explicitly state that it exists for sole purpose of benefiting the rugby club. So money can't be hived away for another purpose, but you want things legally separated like this because don't want the possibility of a failed business venture bringing the club down with it if something goes wrong.

Unfortunately less scrupulous owners of other football and rugby teams in the past have set things up in such a way that they can detach assets from the sporting club, and leave the club asset-less. Fans definitely need to be alert. 

[M j M]

10 minutes ago, Padge said:

The way it works is company A is separated from company B, the shareholders can be anybody, but as ltd companies assets of A cannot be used to pay the debts of B.

I'd forgotten Saints stadium is actually also in the trading company.

And Warrington have a cross-guarantee between the holding co, which owns the stadium, and the trading company.

[Padge]

1 minute ago, M j M said:

I'd forgotten Saints stadium is actually also in the trading company.

And Warrington have a cross-guarantee between the holding co, which owns the stadium, and the trading company.

The Warrington one means one cannot be sold without the consent of the other but neither is responsible for the others debts.

 

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

1 hour ago, Old Frightful said:

I was at that one, we won 13-19 if memory serves with Knocker dropping a goal late on to put the game out of your lot's reach.

I'd have to look up the score, just remember you won. Strangely I remember the original game at the Boulevard ended 6 all. But going back to Sterling, don't think we laid a hand on him all night.

[Agbrigg]

5 hours ago, Padge said:

 

I'll put a small wager on when Belle Vue development is finished it is put under the control of a stadium company and not the club.

 

 

No chance , I'll take you up on that. The Ellis family will keep total control themselves. Why bring in outsiders to operate an asset you own. 

[Padge]

Just now, Agbrigg said:

No chance , I'll take you up on that. The Ellis family will keep total control themselves. Why bring in outsiders to operate an asset you own. 

You do not understand the concept of how this works do you?

[Agbrigg]

Just now, Padge said:

You do not understand the concept of how this works do you?

Oh please give it a rest of course I do. If he was going to do it , it would have been done by now. OK at some time in the future they may form ' a paper company' to keep the operation separate but the same people will own everything. 

 

[Padge]

Just now, Agbrigg said:

Oh please give it a rest of course I do. If he was going to do it , it would have been done by now. OK at some time in the future they may form ' a paper company' to keep the operation separate but the same people will own everything. 

 

So why did you say it won't happen when you have just said (see above) that it may happen.

Who owns it is irrelevant, it is the separation that is important.

I can have shares in 50 ltd. companies, if one goes down I do not lose my shares in all the others to pay off the debts of the one that has down.

It may be beneficial at the moment to access grant funding to keep the ground as a sports club asset, that way development grants from the likes of sport England are available, once the grants are spent and the legal contractual period preventing sale are met it will change to a stadium company.

 

[fieldofclothofgold]

Bradford? Hull both lage cities . Hull Fc get new owners who by RL standards seem minted and talking of building a new stadium . Why not Bradford?

[Agbrigg]

6 hours ago, Padge said:

 

A stadium company has only one focus (legaly bound) and that is to make money for the stadiums shareholders that means maximising all usage and sales. This is another thing sports clubs are utterly useless at as their focus is on the team.

 

 

 

Let's look at what you posted

The stadium company you suggest is obviously very business savvy and well run and it's only purpose is to make money for its directors, The Ellis family.

The sports ( rugby league club )   has other directors who are reckless and will over spend on the team with money they haven't got . The same Ellis family

That's how interpret your post , you have pointed out a theoretical example where both are entirely different entities and by description operated by entirely different directors. This is obviously a model in many clubs. Trinity is different and like I say a paper company may happen but inpractice the same people will run everything as one. I understand the financial reasons of the model and possible other benefits, but I don't see it happening at Trin

[Padge]

Just now, Agbrigg said:

Let's look at what you posted

The stadium company you suggest is obviously very business savvy and well run and it's only purpose is to make money for its directors, The Ellis family.

The sports ( rugby league club )   has other directors who are reckless and will over spend on the team with money they haven't got . The same Ellis family

That's how interpret your post , you have pointed out a theoretical example where both are entirely different entities and by description operated by entirely different directors. This is obviously a model in many clubs. Trinity is different and like I say a paper company may happen but inpractice the same people will run everything as one. I understand the financial reasons of the model and possible other benefits, but I don't see it happening at Trin

If you fail to separate the management then there is no point in splitting the companies as you still have the same idiots running the circus. You split club and stadium and split management of each.

If it's a garbage concept clubs would not be doing it.

It will happen, people don't get rich, and stay rich, by being dumb.

[Agbrigg]

16 minutes ago, Padge said:

If you fail to separate the management then there is no point in splitting the companies as you still have the same idiots running the circus. You split club and stadium and split management of each.

If it's a garbage concept clubs would not be doing it.

It will happen, people don't get rich, and stay rich, by being dumb.

Again you contradict yourself, how can idiots running a circus as you describe, be the same smart people who made them selves rich. Please explain this in Trins case.