2017 General Election - Results & Reaction Thread

[Tyrone Shoelaces 970]

Just now, Robin Evans said:

Genuine this...

The memsahib developed The work allocation tool... for the district nurses in rovrum

You may have to explain these to Niels, he appears to have had a sheltered up bringing.

[Johnoco 7,341]

1 hour ago, Martyn Sadler said:

The same is largely true also of the 70s punks.

No it's not, not in the main. Most are pretty much the same as they were. I'm not like, I've changed a lot of my views, some haven't.

[nadera78 2,232]

2 hours ago, Saintslass said:

The DUP have been working with the government since 2010.  I would imagine the reason that it hasn't been discussed before is because it hasn't been as much of a necessary arrangement.  According to all reports this isn't going to be a formal coalition or anything but a more formalised version of what has been going on anyway.

The DUP are the pro-union party in Northern Ireland.  The Conservatives are pro-union.  Their partnership is natural.  Sinn Fein could always take up their seats in Parliament and argue their case with the pro-federalist parties but they don't, so they can't really complain about any arrangements with the party that does.

Interesting assertion, because it goes to the heart of the DUP.

For a hundred years the Ulster Unionist Party was the pro-Union party of Northern Ireland. The DUP refused to have anything to do with the Good Friday Agreement (and every other attempted solution), both the negotiating and them implementation of it, which the UUP under David Trimble and Ken Maginnis worked incredibly hard to achieve. The effort required to bring the entirety of the Unionist/Loyalist community with them was incredible. The DUP, meanwhile, stood on the sidelines throwing insults and threats, and encouraging the involvement of violent men. Once the hard work had been done they continued to criticise the UUPs actions, and the process as a whole, to the point that the peace process almost collapsed and the majority of Unionist voters switched to them. The DUP did this out of cynical exploitation of the fears and doubts of the Unionist community. Having taken all the risk, and the retribution, the UUP got none of the reward, being reduced to such a point that they allied with the Tories in 2010.

Ian Paisley, besides being wiling to encourage the murder of innocent Catholics, was a cynical, manipulative, right wing (borderline-fascist) religious extremist - and the DUP was not only build in his image but continues to operate in such a way to this day. There is a long list of senior DUP people who were actively involved in terrorist (sorry, "paramilitary") activities. Many, many people were murdered because of them. You say they were not the political wing of the UDA, and that's true, instead they simply formed their own organisation called Ulster Resistance which worked with and alongside the UDA/UVF/LVF. They are every bit as despicable as the IRA/Sinn Fein.

If I'd had the misfortune i 1978 to be born in Northern Ireland, rather than England, the DUP leadership would have been perfectly happy to see me killed, simply for being Catholic. In fact, they may even have been complicit in it by virtue of buying the weapons used and preaching the hatred that entered the minds and hearts of so many young, scared, impressionable young protestants.

I've been one of Jeremy Corbyn's most consistent critics on here, as a Labour member, particularly over the people he has associated with in the past. That you are so readily (might even say desperately) prepared to defend Theresa May doing a deal with these people speaks very badly of you. 

[nec 208]

1 hour ago, Saintslass said:

None of that has passed me by, although some of it being before my time has meant me leaning on history books, but the DUP being endorsed by the UDA for example is not the same as the DUP being the political wing of the UDA.  The EDL endorsed the Leave campaign last year but that does not make the Leave campaign a fascist organisation.  Political parties cannot control who endorses them.  However, Sinn Fein were the political wing of the IRA.  There was a difference.

However, my point in the post of mine that you quoted was clearly that people on here defended Corbyn, in spite of his links with the IRA (including appearing on stage with known killers), and people on here during the election campaign dismissed those links because they were in the past and anyway Corbyn was a great peacemaker in NI apparently, but they are not applying the same approach to the DUP even though the current leader of the DUP has been working with the political wing of the organisation which killed her own father.  

There are numerous examples of DUP politicians past and present appearing on stage with loyalist thugs, plus there was their pro apartheid stance in the 1980's, these people are the local equivalent of the Tea Party with red hands instead of confederate flags. They are an embarrassment to these islands and I would happily see 're-unification postponed to keep them on that side of the Irish sea. 

 

The DUP obstructed the peace process for years before deciding that was a strategic mistake as they were losing votes to the UUP. Paisley realised that Martin McGuiness was a fine politician that had considerable local support and great charisma, better to work with him than be punished for bringing stormont down.

[westlondonfan 638]

One for you John Drake. ?

 

And Nadera78!

Edited June 10, 2017 by westlondonfan

[Jasper 123]

After explaining to my Tory mate how and why I though May almost lost the election (so much to choose from), he sent me this

saying its the only thing that's made him smile in the last two days.  I told him to laugh now, as she won't be there in a couple of months time .....

[shaun mc 1,253]

Maybe if the Tories had devoted 1% of the time & effort they spent name-calling Corbyn (with the help of their fawning Press) into engaging with the youth vote, they may have got 10 seats more

Instead the Tories chose empty rhetoric over substance and the younger voters saw through that and were more enthused by a leader who actually had something worth listening to (even of you disagreed with the policies).  Hopefully the younger vote has been engaged more than previously and that carries through to the next elections

[Bedford Roughyed 6,988]

Nick Timothy has resigned.

[Bedford Roughyed 6,988]

And Fiona Hill goes too.

No shocks there, the price being paid to remain PM.

[westlondonfan 638]

16 minutes ago, Jasper said:

After explaining to my Tory mate how and why I though May almost lost the election (so much to choose from), he sent me this

saying its the only thing that's made him smile in the last two days.  I told him to laugh now, as she won't be there in a couple of months time .....

Paul Nuttal might like it too.

[Just Browny 6,902]

1 hour ago, nadera78 said:

Interesting assertion, because it goes to the heart of the DUP.

For a hundred years the Ulster Unionist Party was the pro-Union party of Northern Ireland. The DUP refused to have anything to do with the Good Friday Agreement (and every other attempted solution), both the negotiating and them implementation of it, which the UUP under David Trimble and Ken Maginnis worked incredibly hard to achieve. The effort required to bring the entirety of the Unionist/Loyalist community with them was incredible. The DUP, meanwhile, stood on the sidelines throwing insults and threats, and encouraging the involvement of violent men. Once the hard work had been done they continued to criticise the UUPs actions, and the process as a whole, to the point that the peace process almost collapsed and the majority of Unionist voters switched to them. The DUP did this out of cynical exploitation of the fears and doubts of the Unionist community. Having taken all the risk, and the retribution, the UUP got none of the reward, being reduced to such a point that they allied with the Tories in 2010.

Ian Paisley, besides being wiling to encourage the murder of innocent Catholics, was a cynical, manipulative, right wing (borderline-fascist) religious extremist - and the DUP was not only build in his image but continues to operate in such a way to this day. There is a long list of senior DUP people who were actively involved in terrorist (sorry, "paramilitary") activities. Many, many people were murdered because of them. You say they were not the political wing of the UDA, and that's true, instead they simply formed their own organisation called Ulster Resistance which worked with and alongside the UDA/UVF/LVF. They are every bit as despicable as the IRA/Sinn Fein.

If I'd had the misfortune i 1978 to be born in Northern Ireland, rather than England, the DUP leadership would have been perfectly happy to see me killed, simply for being Catholic. In fact, they may even have been complicit in it by virtue of buying the weapons used and preaching the hatred that entered the minds and hearts of so many young, scared, impressionable young protestants.

I've been one of Jeremy Corbyn's most consistent critics on here, as a Labour member, particularly over the people he has associated with in the past. That you are so readily (might even say desperately) prepared to defend Theresa May doing a deal with these people speaks very badly of you. 

Bang. To. Rights.

[Johnoco 7,341]

There's still a difference between someone doing a deal with a political party, however ghastly, and actually attending their meetings or protests. Theresa May has not done this whereas Jeremy Corbyn has.

For the record, I'm of an Irish Catholic background.

[Robin Evans 3,265]

She'll be attending a few meetings with them now John

[gingerjon 12,385]

13 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

There's still a difference between someone doing a deal with a political party, however ghastly, and actually attending their meetings or protests.

There is. In this case, what Theresa is doing is potentially far more damaging.

And I write here as someone who has damned, and will continue to damn, Corbyn for his filthy pro-IRA stance.

[tonyXIII 2,203]

13 minutes ago, Robin Evans said:

She'll be attending a few meetings with them now John

Is it possible to 'hold your nose' decorously? Probably not.

Then again, she might like the smell.

 

[Bob8 6,279]

22 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

There's still a difference between someone doing a deal with a political party, however ghastly, and actually attending their meetings or protests. Theresa May has not done this whereas Jeremy Corbyn has.

For the record, I'm of an Irish Catholic background.

Indeed. Circumstances mean the Conservative party have to make this deal.  Corbyn made an active choice.

Politics is the art of dealing with people you disagree with. 

This became an issue on the thread as since the deal has been made, some posters believe the DUP have nothing to do with terrorism. It is an unnecessary self-delusion. 

[Robin Evans 3,265]

Surely the Tories have an active choice. They can get into bed with the DUP, a party aligned with terror, or not?

[Tyrone Shoelaces 970]

Just now, Bob8 said:

Indeed. Circumstances mean the Conservative party have to make this deal.  Corbyn made an active choice.

Politics is the art of dealing with people you disagree with. 

This became an issue on the thread as since the deal has been made, some posters believe the DUP have nothing to do with terrorism. It is an unnecessary self-delusion. 

That's a nice bit of sophistry. Is your tongue in a knot now ?

Edited June 10, 2017 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Tyrone Shoelaces 970]

Just now, Robin Evans said:

Surely the Tories have an active choice. They can get into bed with the DUP, a party aligned with terror, or not?

On the other hand she could resign and keep her own hands clean. That's an active choice as well.

Edited June 10, 2017 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Tyrone Shoelaces 970]

1 hour ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

And Fiona Hill goes too.

No shocks there, the price being paid to remain PM.

You're got to hand it to the Tories they certainly know how to disappear people.

They could give the Mafia a lesson or two.

What do they say - " Greater love hath no man than to lay down your friends for your career " ?

Edited June 10, 2017 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Bedford Roughyed 6,988]

23 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

On the other hand she could resign and keep her own hands clean. That's an active choice as well.

I would imagine that she wants to go, many in the party want her to go, but they all know that changing leaders now would look terrible (worse than her staying I'd say) due to the EU negotiations starting in a week or so, plus they campaigned on 'strong and stable'.  The 'optics' would be pretty awful.

On the other hand, she is wounded, lacks authority, lacks the mandate she wanted, has lost key aides and no doubt allies....

 

[JonM 2,495]

1 hour ago, Bob8 said:

Indeed. Circumstances mean the Conservative party have to make this deal.  Corbyn made an active choice.

Politics is the art of dealing with people you disagree with.

I agree. I despise the DUP, but I don't see what option Mrs. May has. She doesn't have a majority. If she goes to the Queen and asks her to ask Mr. Corbyn to form a government, he can't get a majority either. We need to have a government and it doesn't look like a CON-LAB or CON-SNP coalition is on offer. John Major had to do something similar in 1996.

[Bedford Roughyed 6,988]

I would imagine the story of where the DUP got £435,000 towards their brexit campaign might get a few more views now.  And who they happened to spend it with/on.

[gingerjon 12,385]

Just now, JonM said:

I agree. I despise the DUP, but I don't see what option Mrs. May has. She doesn't have a majority. If she goes to the Queen and asks her to ask Mr. Corbyn to form a government, he can't get a majority either. We need to have a government and it doesn't look like a CON-LAB or CON-SNP coalition is on offer. John Major had to do something similar in 1996.

She could attempt a minority government. Or given that Labour did not oppose Article 50 she could even try and find common ground enough for a grand coalition on that one issue (which will be the defining one of this parliament).  Or any other options she wants to look at.

For starters.

[gingerjon 12,385]

10 minutes ago, Bedford Roughyed said:

I would imagine that she wants to go, many in the party want her to go, but they all know that changing leaders now would look terrible (worse than her staying I'd say) due to the EU negotiations starting in a week or so, plus they campaigned on 'strong and stable'.  The 'optics' would be pretty awful.

On the other hand, she is wounded, lacks authority, lacks the mandate she wanted, has lost key aides and no doubt allies....

 

She has no allies and no confidantes.

It's all that being bloody difficult.

And rubbish.