Relegation battle

[Wellsy4HullFC]

15 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

Totally agree, however there are four or maybe five clubs who think the financial share of the cake should be even bigger. They would prefer a 10 way cut or even an 8 way cut. 

They can prefer what they like. A 10 team league is never going to happen.

[GeordieSaint]

Squeaky bum times at Huddersfield and Wakefield...

[DEANO]

The team that finishes bottom will go down unless it’s leeds

[Dunbar]

There is no chance of Leeds finishing bottom.  There are four games left and they are 4 points ahead of London with a +246 better for & against differential which is unlikely to be turned around so effectively 6 points (with no draws this year).

This means that London have to win three more games that Leeds do in these last 4 fixtures to finish above them.  Even if Leeds win none that means London have to win three and if Leeds get one more win London have to win all of their remaining fixtures.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

24 minutes ago, DEANO said:

The team that finishes bottom will go down unless it’s leeds

Either really poor fishing or extremely poor 'banter'. 

[Tre Cool]

I can see London winning 2 or 3 of the last 4.  They have it in them.  I can also see them losing all 4.  But I wouldn't say London are definitely going down by any stretch.  Leeds should be ok but Hudds and Wakey in particular could struggle with their fixtures.  KR should be ok but again could struggle.

[Andy Capp]

10 hours ago, RugbyLeagueMan said:

I would have loved the Broncos to have stayed in SL, but I don't feel David Hughes has invested anywhere enough funds into marketing the club.

Another issue is that they didn't seem to do much in the way of recruitment when they got promoted. They just carried on with the same team from the Championship , more or less. I thought they would have made some big signings if they were being ambitious to stay up. The Coach has instilled a fantastic team spirit. But they surely need some strengthening in the middle of the field. They have some very creative and talented players but they needed a few big lads that could make metres in the middle, dragging defenders along behind them.

[Lowdesert]

2 hours ago, RugbyLeagueMan said:

Makes perfect sense to expand Super League to 14 in 2020 bringing TWP and TO to elite level.

Neither are elite level.  If both were promoted now they would struggle. TWP would need to go on spending spree but I doubt TO could afford that.  

The last 10 or so games has shown TOs lack of strength in depth.  They would need a lot stronger squad to avoid yo-yo ing back down again.  Of course, they could follow the theme of buying at the death to escape relegation but that is a gamble.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

45 minutes ago, Andy Capp said:

Another issue is that they didn't seem to do much in the way of recruitment when they got promoted. They just carried on with the same team from the Championship , more or less. I thought they would have made some big signings if they were being ambitious to stay up. The Coach has instilled a fantastic team spirit. But they surely need some strengthening in the middle of the field. They have some very creative and talented players but they needed a few big lads that could make metres in the middle, dragging defenders along behind them.

I think this is what will be their ultimate undoing. They've basically got a championship squad and Wardy has done an amazing job to get the very best out of them. If they had invested in even 2 more quality players I think they'd be all but safe already. I'm surprised they didn't splash the cash on a couple of short term signings towards the end of the season when they were still in touch.

I think London's best chance is to hope HKR win this week, pick up a win themselves in the next three games and then take it to the last game v Wakey. As others have pointed out, the points difference is a big factor as well so it almost doesn't matter if they win 2 as a loss against Wakey would send them down. All this assumes Wakey will lose their next 3.

[Chris Taylor]

2 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:

Neither are elite level.  If both were promoted now they would struggle. TWP would need to go on spending spree but I doubt TO could afford that.  

The last 10 or so games has shown TOs lack of strength in depth.  They would need a lot stronger squad to avoid yo-yo ing back down again.  Of course, they could follow the theme of buying at the death to escape relegation but that is a gamble.

I'd disagree, I don't think there's much between the bottom 4 sides and the top 4 in Championship. 

With the bridge in gap with funding, Championship clubs have gained momentum - whilst Super League sides have stayed still. You only have to look at how London have performed to see this (imo).

[HawkMan]

Yes it probably will be London going down, and a great shame for the game that they'll be no SL presence in London, but isn't it wishful thinking that TGG can crack London ?

I remember Mike " Stevo" Stephenson telling Eddie Hemmings that London simply doesn't care for RL, end of story. After thirty years trying, gates of 2000 are testament to that. Can you imagine telling The Broncos thirty years ago that they'll have those attendance figures in 2019, they'd either have laughed or given up . There's lots of good work at grassroots happening to be applauded, but no real sign of a thriving SL club just waiting to take off. However if they could get into partnership with a big football club, willing to invest, even take them over, using the brand name of the club, it could just work. Anyone for Chelsea RL or Tottenham RL Spurs!!

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Chris Taylor said:

I'd disagree, I don't think there's much between the bottom 4 sides and the top 4 in Championship. 

With the bridge in gap with funding, Championship clubs have gained momentum - whilst Super League sides have stayed still. You only have to look at how London have performed to see this (imo).

Fair enough Chris but by form, TO have lost to Halifax, Sheffield and Swinton this year.  With respect to those teams TO should be winning convincingly especially at home.  Bradford beat them at home too with a team that’s just been promoted from Div 1.

We have to factor in the intensity of SL taking it out on squads.  TO have a fairly young side (ave age circa 26) but imo don’t have the quality just yet.

Yes, London.  The overall result is they’re bottom.  I’d love them to stay up but I don’t think they really committed to staying up with recruitment.

Edit: I thought Fax beat them but they didn’t.

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, Chris Taylor said:

I'd disagree, I don't think there's much between the bottom 4 sides and the top 4 in Championship. 

With the bridge in gap with funding, Championship clubs have gained momentum - whilst Super League sides have stayed still. You only have to look at how London have performed to see this (imo).

I disagree with your good self Chris, and I am a fan of as we stand today the Championships highest placed English club I would suggest any 4 sides in the Championship would require 6 maybe 8 signings of SL capable player's to acheive mid table of the SL and that includes Toronto.

Having an equal funding will not nessacarilly enable one team to find all the player's they will require in the short time from securing promotion to the start of the next season, if 2 clubs are promoted sourcing the required playing roster would be more than twice as hard, Leigh were that club in 2017 they spent up to the cap level and wether it was a combination of the of the right players available or the wrong choice they were not good enough to secure SL status, let me ask you a simple question if Saints lost most of their team at the end of the season do you think they could recruit and replace a team anywhere near as good in a 4 month period?

Are you a supporter of a Championship club Chris? I think the quality of the rugby on show is every bit as good as SL it is not as stereotypical, but even the best (your top 4) would not beat the clubs from SL with anything like enough regulatory to avoid a season long relegation battle. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

Yes it probably will be London going down, and a great shame for the game that they'll be no SL presence in London, but isn't it wishful thinking that TGG can crack London ?

I remember Mike " Stevo" Stephenson telling Eddie Hemmings that London simply doesn't care for RL, end of story. After thirty years trying, gates of 2000 are testament to that. Can you imagine telling The Broncos thirty years ago that they'll have those attendance figures in 2019, they'd either have laughed or given up . There's lots of good work at grassroots happening to be applauded, but no real sign of a thriving SL club just waiting to take off. However if they could get into partnership with a big football club, willing to invest, even take them over, using the brand name of the club, it could just work. Anyone for Chelsea RL or Tottenham RL Spurs!!

Salary Cap Hawkman, "Willing to invest" two words for you Marwan Koukash he was desperate to invest and wasn't allowed to do so, the same will happen with Toronto their owner could by alll the league, but he wont be allowed to do so.

All the best teams always have a nucleus of very good player's which they add to with very good player's as seen fit and dispose of those past their sell by dates, it is easy to deplete a team through bad management (see Leeds Rhinos or Bradford) but it takes years to build up a regular pot hunter.

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Salary Cap Hawkman, "Willing to invest" two words for you Marwan Koukash he was desperate to invest and wasn't allowed to do so, the same will happen with Toronto their owner could by alll the league, but he wont be allowed to do so.

All the best teams always have a nucleus of very good player's which they add to with very good player's as seen fit and dispose of those past their sell by dates, it is easy to deplete a team through bad management (see Leeds Rhinos or Bradford) but it takes years to build up a regular pot hunter.

I agree Harry but with the changes to the salary cap since then (2 marquee players, dispensation for RU signings and the NRL), I think there is much more scope for Toronto this time around. Koukash probably would have looked to bring in a Sonny Bill Williams type figure, under the previous rules he'd have taken up nearly half the salary cap, now on a 2 year deal he wouldn't come close. I agree though with your point that team management is really hard and as a Leeds fan can attest that poor recruitment and planning can be terrible.

[Oxford]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

that team management is really hard and as a Leeds fan can attest that poor recruitment and planning can be terrible.

Can't be that bad you took Lui Barstewards !

Mind you I'd like to thank you for who you sent the other way, what a gem. what a find!

[Harry Stottle]

7 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Thing is though Harry they aren't. Their USP to the League is they are the most successful modern non M62 club and they are the only English top flight team based outside that Northern Heartland. 

Fev for example coming up changes nothing in terms of local interest, media spread etc: the Wakefield Express will still cover them basically how they do now and little will change beyond that. London get reports etc in the Evening standard that would largely not exist were they not in the top flight. They are the focal point for almost all RL south of Sheffield which kind of makes them a big deal in my eyes at least. That doesn't mean they're perfect, far from it, but strategically they are important as Brisbane Broncos and Melbourne Storm are for the NRL. 

I can see London beating a woeful at times Catalans side this weekend and then who knows. They have nothing to lose as nobody gives them a chance.

Are those Evening Standard reports enticing people to the ground? there are lots of things in the newspapers I take no heed of in fact I cannot remember reading anything whatsoever with regards to the round ball game, what I am actually saying is something can be printed but if one is not interested it won't be read.

What does it matter being the focal point of all Rugby League south of Sheffield if the audience is in the hundreds, it's like a pork butcher trying to peddle his wares to the organisers of a Bar Mitzvah party, he won't sell much at all.

[Tommygilf]

12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Are those Evening Standard reports enticing people to the ground? there are lots of things in the newspapers I take no heed of in fact I cannot remember reading anything whatsoever with regards to the round ball game, what I am actually saying is something can be printed but if one is not interested it won't be read.

What does it matter being the focal point of all Rugby League south of Sheffield if the audience is in the hundreds, it's like a pork butcher trying to peddle his wares to the organisers of a Bar Mitzvah party, he won't sell much at all.

That's just one example, for results being reported on local TV and radio, general awareness and accessibility of the game and of course player development having London in SL is a valuable commodity. Just as having a Welsh side in the top flight massively boosted the number of Welsh RL players. In any case, some coverage is better than none and whether we like it or not the vast majority of our media and financial clout in this country is based in the south east. 

It being the focal point is that it is a huge area with a huge population that is simply not served by the rest of the RL community. Just like Newcastle are for the North East, London Broncos are the heart of RL in the south of England and provide that point despite being a basket case basically since the change to Quins RL.

[Oxford]

14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

it's like a pork butcher trying to peddle his wares to the organisers of a Bar Mitzvah party, he won't sell much at all.

That's a poor analogy Harry there is no diametrically opposed idea to RL in London we're not selling something culturally abhorrent and religiously distasteful. All it is is identification of what it does take.

[Harry Stottle]

12 minutes ago, Oxford said:

That's a poor analogy Harry there is no diametrically opposed idea to RL in London we're not selling something culturally abhorrent and religiously distasteful. All it is is identification of what it does take.

Lighten up Oxford you are not to thick to know what I meant, nothing meant culturally or religiously, just generalising, but you already was aware of that.

[Lowdesert]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Salary Cap Hawkman, "Willing to invest" two words for you Marwan Koukash he was desperate to invest and wasn't allowed to do so, the same will happen with Toronto their owner could by alll the league, but he wont be allowed to do so.

All the best teams always have a nucleus of very good player's which they add to with very good player's as seen fit and dispose of those past their sell by dates, it is easy to deplete a team through bad management (see Leeds Rhinos or Bradford) but it takes years to build up a regular pot hunter.

Yes, and having the time to do some form of due diligence as to whether a player is right and will fit in is a luxury these teams scrambling to get promoted don’t have.

Staying in the division another year might benefit TO.  New stadium agreement might bring more supporters in and more money - I think they only average around 2500 now.  The only game changer I could foresee would be a cash injection from a big sponsor such as Aerospace.

[DEANO]

Don’t understand why anyone would think they need London in sl. What exposure and fans do they bring to the game. If they go down it’s because their not good enough same as any team

[Lowdesert]

1 minute ago, DEANO said:

Don’t understand why anyone would think they need London in sl. What exposure and fans do they bring to the game. If they go down it’s because their not good enough same as any team

I think they’ve been sleepwalking towards recruitment.  

 

[The Future is League]

3 hours ago, HawkMan said:

Yes it probably will be London going down, and a great shame for the game that they'll be no SL presence in London, but isn't it wishful thinking that TGG can crack London ?

I remember Mike " Stevo" Stephenson telling Eddie Hemmings that London simply doesn't care for RL, end of story. After thirty years trying, gates of 2000 are testament to that. Can you imagine telling The Broncos thirty years ago that they'll have those attendance figures in 2019, they'd either have laughed or given up . There's lots of good work at grassroots happening to be applauded, but no real sign of a thriving SL club just waiting to take off. However if they could get into partnership with a big football club, willing to invest, even take them over, using the brand name of the club, it could just work. Anyone for Chelsea RL or Tottenham RL Spurs!!

How long have they been playing Rugby League in Salford and Huddersfield?as i don't see many home fans queing when i go to there grounds

[OMEGA]

Wakefield’s nine lives are all used up I’m afraid