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New coach for England (Merged Threads)

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10 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Shuan Wane - backward step- Good as a club coach working with a Wigan side most of whom he would have seen develop through the club's age group structure. International Rugby League is a competely different ball game.

 

I dont think it is.  It takes a good coach to bring kids through and then continue to coach them at senior level standard with such success.  Very few have done that. 

This level is nurturing and managing egos, getting them to gel, getting players to burst their lungs for each other and execute plays.  If he could do one thing, improve our kicking, imo we can win this world cup.

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11 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Always likely. Hopefully brings in a Powell

Really?   Thought they hated each other? 😁

Might work in an ‘odd couple’ kind of way though! 

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

I'd be happy with the appointment of Wane. I think an English based coach is a must after some of selections we have seen from Bennett. It also means that the coach can work with the players much more readily. Wane is a great motivator who knows Super League. He also won't take any rubbish or excuses.

On the whole, I agree. I don't think Wane is the best coach in the world but if we have a chance to win the World Cup at the end of these coming two seasons we will need some of the talent coming through to be identified and managed and I don't think Bennett can do that from the other side of the world.

Wane may lack some imagination as a coach but with so few internationals, sending out a team with a simple game plan, confidence and motivation is probably all we can ask for.

I have supported Bennett over the years and the last World Cup was clearly his best achievement as England coach but I have to say I would look forward to the ashes series more with an English coach at the helm.

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Happy with this appointment, certainly need a coach in the role full time who knows the super league well. Wane isn't the most exciting coach in the world, plays a safe, unspectacular game plan but he gets results so couldn't care less how exciting England will be to watch. Winning the World Cup is the priority above anything else and if we do that playing safe rugby then I'm all for it. 

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9 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Why?

Well so he can dedicate all his time to the development of the team. He will be able to spend so much more time than part-time, aussie based coaches travelling to as many super league games as possible, watching players, especially younger, up coming players, heavily analysing individuals, working out deep game plans, focusing on how individuals will work together on the field, how that fits into the wider game plan which he can work on 24 hrs a day if he wants, spending as much time as he wants studying opposition teams, hopefully putting on more training sessions and meet-ups throughout the year, having more readily direct access to players.

Lots of benefits to a full time coach as opposed to a part time one who has to deligate a lot of responsibilities to his assistant who he might only see a handful of times in a year. 

Edited by The Hallucinating Goose
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26 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Why?

He can actually watch some games, set up some camps, go to Australia and monitor the guys there. Being here and identifying talent to start in 2021 is just as important as who will be in the 17 for the first Ashes test. Some of those young stars with 2 seasons on their backs will be ready for the World Cup but they need nurturing and having someone who actually knows their names, visits their training ground and gives them some advice on how they can crack the squad.

A player like Mark Percival has been ###### around for 2-3 years despite being in the top few centres in the country. Having someone within the national set-up mentoring him month-to-month could really get him ready to step up.

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55 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

Really?   Thought they hated each other? 😁

Might work in an ‘odd couple’ kind of way though! 

Haha maybe, like I said all of English RL should be devoted to us winning this next world cup above all else!

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Just now, Scubby said:

He can actually watch some games, set up some camps, go to Australia and monitor the guys there. Being here and identifying talent to start in 2021 is just as important as who will be in the 17 for the first Ashes test. Some of those young stars with 2 seasons on their backs will be ready for the World Cup but they need nurturing and having someone who actually knows their names, visits their training ground and gives them some advice on how they can crack the squad.

A player like Mark Percival has been ###### around for 2-3 years despite being in the top few centres in the country. Having someone within the national set-up mentoring him month-to-month could really get him ready to step up.

Indeed. David Waite did a lot of good work as a technical director as part of his full time GB coach role.

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I thought Bennett being appointed was a master stroke after McNamara but it’s been anything but. Holding up WC17 as an achievement ignores the fact we were nearly dispatched by Tonga, and NZ imploded. We were far from brilliant in the final when you see it again. Our series win against NZ in 2018 was ok although the opposition didn’t really do themselves justice. 

Wane’s teams initially at Wigan were a level above McGuire with even better ball movement and great moves to balance the aggression. Later on his sides were almost unwatchably dull and at times you wondered how they’d ever win trophies, but he managed to make them peak at the right time more often than not. 

He needs strong assistants and I’d definitely make the role full time to include a technical director role. The less Sinfield gets involved the better. 

Edited by Mushy
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This the Shaun Wane who,when guiding his Wigan side to success,had lower attendances.

His assistant,Iestyn Harris,a bit like former assistants and former players under Sir Alex Ferguson at Manchester United,failed to go on to any success - so continuity will be lacking.

Will the 'Wiganness' of Shaun Wane lead to the alleged situation when Tony Smith was in charge,of cliques between players of rival clubs?

Looks like the victimisation by the rugby league journalists is at the fore,again - and they've got their own way.

 

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Yay, get rid of the one dimensional stubborn coach... Then bring in another exactly the same. Amazing idea. I suppose its consistent.

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3 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

This the Shaun Wane who,when guiding his Wigan side to success,had lower attendances.

His assistant,Iestyn Harris,a bit like former assistants and former players under Sir Alex Ferguson at Manchester United,failed to go on to any success - so continuity will be lacking.

Will the 'Wiganness' of Shaun Wane lead to the alleged situation when Tony Smith was in charge,of cliques between players of rival clubs?

Looks like the victimisation by the rugby league journalists is at the fore,again - and they've got their own way.

 

If we had 2000 at a World Cup win I wouldnt give a toss about the crowd. 

This is the stigma in wanting fluent, football, end to end spectacle.  International level is just points.  It still takes a great performance to win it, despite it might not be pretty.

 

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Don't get how Bennett gets any support to be honest. He got the little bit of luck that Mac didn't get in 2013 world cup semi final to get us to the 2017 version but apart from that we were no better imo. 

After the last tour he had to go, it was a shambles. I'm not a Wane fan but i'm certain he will get every bit out of the set of players available to him in the limited time available. A good choice

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Think it was the logical choice really, Powell's ship has sailed I'm afraid and McDermott's never got in the water, think he's rubbed up too many people the wrong way, especially Sinfield, to have a chance. After that who else, Watson's had minor success but was involved in the GB horror show, how much input he had is open to question  but he needs more mileage under his belt I think.

Wanes team's may not be easy on the eye but you only have to watch a few games for England not a full season's worth and if they are successful all will be forgiven, and  we are not exactly blessed with scintillating half backs and centre's to control games are we.

At least a Wane team will be committed, know what's expected of it and most likely English and playing in their recognised positions.

Er, on that last point who was it who started playing Bateman at centre?🙄

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As for the overall style of the national side, a national coach only works with his players for very limited periods each year. What you need is someone who can focus everyone on teamwork, unity and attitude, and do so in a short time. Wane may be that man.

Edited by Futtocks
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Positives:

- Actually watches Super League
- Has coached for many years in Super League
- Already knows a few of our NRL based players
- A track record of success (said through gritted teeth as a Saints fan)
- Appears to be decent motivator
- Overachieved at Wigan considering the squad at his disposal

Negatives:

- Very limited attacking coach
- Overemphasis on wrestle
- Inflexible tactically
- Possibly overly partisan nature towards Wigan and its players (although he may leave that to one side now England coach)

Overall, I agree with the decision to replace Bennett. It was no longer feasible to keep him as coach when at times he displayed disdain and contempt for the England team. For example, last week it was reported that Wayne Bennett thought Paul Wellens was a player and not a coach when he arrived at training. That, if true, is a simply unacceptable lack of knowledge and attention to detail.

Wane will not have that problem at all. I do worry that he has some of the same tactical flaws of Bennett, but on the whole it seems to be an upgrade.

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Well the Australian side is certainly at a low in terms of stars.  Of course they are favourites bug very beatable 

Tonga vs England final would be nice if it's possible 

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2 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Positives:

- Actually watches Super League
- Has coached for many years in Super League
- Already knows a few of our NRL based players
- A track record of success (said through gritted teeth as a Saints fan)
- Appears to be decent motivator
- Overachieved at Wigan considering the squad at his disposal

Negatives:

- Very limited attacking coach
- Overemphasis on wrestle
- Inflexible tactically
- Possibly overly partisan nature towards Wigan and its players (although he may leave that to one side now England coach)

Overall, I agree with the decision to replace Bennett. It was no longer feasible to keep him as coach when at times he displayed disdain and contempt for the England team. For example, last week it was reported that Wayne Bennett thought Paul Wellens was a player and not a coach when he arrived at training. That, if true, is a simply unacceptable lack of knowledge and attention to detail.

Wane will not have that problem at all. I do worry that he has some of the same tactical flaws of Bennett, but on the whole it seems to be an upgrade.

That can't be true surely, if do then not only should he not be England coach we should sue him for a lack of effort and professionalism. 

Your worries about wane match mine, if he brings the same style of play and emphasis on dirtying up games then he won't win us anything. 

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12 minutes ago, dkw said:

That can't be true surely, if do then not only should he not be England coach we should sue him for a lack of effort and professionalism. 

Your worries about wane match mine, if he brings the same style of play and emphasis on dirtying up games then he won't win us anything. 

This is where I saw the Wellens / Bennett story. It is fair to point out that it's just a rumour, but it isn't exactly something that is unbelievable given Bennett's attitude.

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/off-the-record-rugby-league-rumours-and-gossip-194/

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5 hours ago, Chris22 said:

This is where I saw the Wellens / Bennett story. It is fair to point out that it's just a rumour, but it isn't exactly something that is unbelievable given Bennett's attitude.

https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/off-the-record-rugby-league-rumours-and-gossip-194/

It's outrageous if true.

One of the things I have never been able to square with Bennett is that all the players clearly rate him and speak very highly of him and yet he seems to have a complete disregard for the competition they play in and their performances in it.

Edited by Dunbar
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28 minutes ago, Chris22 said:

Positives:

- Actually watches Super League
- Has coached for many years in Super League
- Already knows a few of our NRL based players
- A track record of success (said through gritted teeth as a Saints fan)
- Appears to be decent motivator
- Overachieved at Wigan considering the squad at his disposal

Negatives:

- Very limited attacking coach
- Overemphasis on wrestle
- Inflexible tactically
- Possibly overly partisan nature towards Wigan and its players (although he may leave that to one side now England coach)

Overall, I agree with the decision to replace Bennett. It was no longer feasible to keep him as coach when at times he displayed disdain and contempt for the England team. For example, last week it was reported that Wayne Bennett thought Paul Wellens was a player and not a coach when he arrived at training. That, if true, is a simply unacceptable lack of knowledge and attention to detail.

Wane will not have that problem at all. I do worry that he has some of the same tactical flaws of Bennett, but on the whole it seems to be an upgrade.

Seeing as he's never had the chance to show, or not show, any hint of a partisan nature, this point is surely a case of digging for any imagined negative.

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"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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I realise I'm not always as positive as I might but as Shaun Wane is a Pie Eater, this is perfectly understandable. But here goes: Wane puts emphasis on the wrestle and controlled agression, Watson puts the stress on working together and working hard, Powell works on forward movement and playing what you see. That should be a pretty good recipe moving forward.

Though I'm sure that my interpretation of their focus might take a bit of stick!

Edited by Oxford

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4 hours ago, Jim Prendle said:

So, who would you choose for the job?

If your criteria is 1. Super League Coach 2. English - then Daryl Powell is the standout candidate. The english coach that comes closest to turning water into wine in a Rugby League sense

4 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

I dont think it is.  It takes a good coach to bring kids through and then continue to coach them at senior level standard with such success.  Very few have done that. 

This level is nurturing and managing egos, getting them to gel, getting players to burst their lungs for each other and execute plays.  If he could do one thing, improve our kicking, imo we can win this world cup.

Wigan are one of the top three clubs in the Country with the age group pathway to match, so its actualy easier to be a  successful coach when your resources are greater than the majority of your competitors.. Internationally the roles are reversed with the playing and junior strength in Australia and New Zealand with the pacific nations coming up fast on the rails.By contrast, as is commented on at length on TRL threads, paying numbers and the quality of Super League is down

Still It will be interesting when the behind the scenes team talk from Shaun Wane is broadcast after the watershed on sky 😉

 

Edited by THE RED ROOSTER
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4 hours ago, Cheshire Setter said:

Really?   Thought they hated each other? 😁

Might work in an ‘odd couple’ kind of way though! 

I doubt that’ll happen but if ego’s could be shoved to one side, it could be an excellent partnership.  

I think Watson is patient and passionate enough to keep his role.  Proved he can do the business last season too.

 

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