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The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread


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26 minutes ago, SL17 said:

RL is a hobby to these guys. You don’t pump money into this game expecting a return. 
The budget went through the window with SBW’s on board. 

These are facts, not tiddlywinks.

 

It also made it impossible to run a full squad under the salary cap, as did a number of other big signings. An accident waiting to happen.

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I am devastated by todays decision.Obviously I think its wrong but I think it shows the narrow minded thinking of most super league clubs.I very much doubt the Wolfpack will ever be back as I don't se

Rugby League as a sport - fans, owners, administrators, the lot - gets what it deserves. There was an opportunity here, an owner who's spent £10m, a growing fanbase and a very attractive market,

To avoid the forum being swamped with dozens of individual threads about Toronto which generally all end up heading down the same rabbit hole eventually anyway, we're opening this general discussion t

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4 minutes ago, SL17 said:

They didn’t have a full squad as the injuries took its toll. So in order to cover the injuries they wanted the SC raised.

Indeed an accident waiting to happen.

Again look at the administrators involved, and what happened when they were together at Salford, thankfully Salford righted themselves, thanks  to Ian Watson and competant management.

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7 minutes ago, SL17 said:

You live and learn👍 Personally Perez had the vision. 
 

And still does..

Perez is just a marketing man. If TWP go under, there will be no Ottawa or NY.

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2 minutes ago, SL17 said:

But his vision will still remain. He left TWP for a reason. 

Hi vision of teams over here playing in the RFL structure is flawed though, as this exercise has demonstrated.

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My views on this are.

Argylle brought Twp into this world and will be around for as long as he continues to bankroll them. If they pull out and fold, which imo would be devastatingly, the it's purely his decision and I hope, that after all he has built and invested, he won't throw it all away.

On the RFL, the are not in the business of killing clubs. History has shown this with Bradford and Widnes with their various issues both living to see another day, in Bradford's case multiple times. As long as Argylle sticks around, so will Twp, as he has shown no signs of leaving.

I do find it somewhat interesting that only hours after Twp's announcement, relegation was scrapped for this year. Hopefully that is a sign.

I believe Twp will be around in Super League for '21, but beginning on - points to start the season, similar to Bradford and Widnes.

As for Ottawa and NYC, their existence doesn't hang or correlate to Twp. In saying that, if this had happened to Twp last year, then yes, the chances of Ottawa and NYC happening would be slim.

 

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3 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

My views on this are.

Argylle brought Twp into this world and will be around for as long as he continues to bankroll them. If they pull out and fold, which imo would be devastatingly, the it's purely his decision and I hope, that after all he has built and invested, he won't throw it all away.

On the RFL, the are not in the business of killing clubs. History has shown this with Bradford and Widnes with their various issues both living to see another day, in Bradford's case multiple times. As long as Argylle sticks around, so will Twp, as he has shown no signs of leaving.

I do find it somewhat interesting that only hours after Twp's announcement, relegation was scrapped for this year. Hopefully that is a sign.

I believe Twp will be around in Super League for '21, but beginning on - points to start the season, similar to Bradford and Widnes.

As for Ottawa and NYC, their existence doesn't hang or correlate to Twp. In saying that, if this had happened to Twp last year, then yes, the chances of Ottawa and NYC happening would be slim.

 

Taking your points in turn

1. Totally correct, no Argyle, no TWP, what he is really thinking is of course a mystery to us all now.

2. Correct but they aren’t always great at helping either, and tend to allow too many rescue bids which really have little substance to them, Bradford fans in particular know this one.

3. I think that was on the cards anyway, the Championship was having problems restarting so how could you have P&R

4. Think you are being optimistic here, even if that did happen starting on - points would pretty much nail them on as certs to go down next year. Better to regroup back in the Championship if Argyles is still up for it.

5. No TWP no Ottawa and NY has always struck me as a pipe dream.

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4 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

Why do you say this?

In my opinion they are not dependent on each other.

The only thing that will stop Ottawa is Covid due to travel.

No way can there be an Ottawa without Toronto. It is going to be hard enough to get fans there in the first place, but when they hear that Toronto has failed, I can't see it happening. Toronto is the fastest growing city in North America, Ottawa is a sleepy town of government workers.

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Without getting into the general politics too much I think the whole management of Covid across the World is a mistake.

It`s surely the absence of political certainty over when this will end that makes TWP unsustainable in its current model. The way dates are put back, restrictions eased then reimposed, talk of second waves, third waves. How can anyone, particularly a business like TWP, plan anything?

If next year approximate normality resumed, then there was another outbreak or a vaccine failed, the owners know that all the same moral blackmail will be marshalled to urge travel bans and lockdowns, and that politicians will succumb to it.

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When news like this breaks it's important to think rationally and not go straight to worst case scenario because negativity breeds negativity and can become contagious.

1. Make sure the players/staff are paid.

2. Sort out VISA issues over the coming weeks or months to get it 100% right.

3. Accept whatever the punishment may be and make sure the survival of the club is secured.

4. Use the following months to regroup for the start of next year.

These are uncertain times. Every club below Super League has stopped playing, Twp have just become the first Super League club to join the list.

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I don’t understand this talk of punishment, punishment for what, being victims of a global pandemic. It’s perfectly obvious that it’s harder for Toronto to resume than it is for anyone else due to travel and visa restrictions, no other club has that problem, not even Catalans. SL should be supporting TWP not punishing them, RL isn’t big enough to destroy clubs like that. 

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1 hour ago, Omott91 said:

When news like this breaks it's important to think rationally and not go straight to worst case scenario because negativity breeds negativity and can become contagious.

1. Make sure the players/staff are paid.

2. Sort out VISA issues over the coming weeks or months to get it 100% right.

3. Accept whatever the punishment may be and make sure the survival of the club is secured.

4. Use the following months to regroup for the start of next year.

These are uncertain times. Every club below Super League has stopped playing, Twp have just become the first Super League club to join the list.

Seems the staff payments might be true according to this piece in the YP and Tony Smiths comments regarding Ryan Brierley and his time there.

https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/hull-krs-tony-smith-not-surprised-toronto-wolfpacks-super-league-downfall-2919180

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48 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don’t understand this talk of punishment, punishment for what, being victims of a global pandemic. It’s perfectly obvious that it’s harder for Toronto to resume than it is for anyone else due to travel and visa restrictions, no other club has that problem, not even Catalans. SL should be supporting TWP not punishing them, RL isn’t big enough to destroy clubs like that. 

Toronto Wolfpack, a club that has cost the game £0, every single penny has come out of David Argyle’s pocket. Surely now we can see what a great thing we could have for the game, now is the time to look at them and support them. How?

Give them a share of the tv deal, even if it’s not the full amount, strike some deal, for example Toronto get 50% (compared to UK clubs) of the sky tv deal, and the 11 SL clubs get 50% of any US or Canadian tv deal. 

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45 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Toronto Wolfpack, a club that has cost the game £0, every single penny has come out of David Argyle’s pocket. Surely now we can see what a great thing we could have for the game, now is the time to look at them and support them. How?

Give them a share of the tv deal, even if it’s not the full amount, strike some deal, for example Toronto get 50% (compared to UK clubs) of the sky tv deal, and the 11 SL clubs get 50% of any US or Canadian tv deal. 

Agree entirely, TWP are a gift horse, I can’t believe how many people are against them, especially those running the game. 

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28 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

Or maybe if they weren’t spending £3million a year on one player it may have worked out differently?

One player who massively raised their (and SL’s) profile. TWP have given rugby league more column inches than the rest of the 11 SL clubs combined have for the last decade. 

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Just now, Eddie said:

One player who massively raised their (and SL’s) profile. TWP have given rugby league more column inches than the rest of the 11 SL clubs combined have for the last decade. 

The point being you cannot cry the poor tale when spending more than the whole cap on one player, he may have given some good publicity but the fact they are struggling now and not paying players is arguably giving more column inches but not in a good way.

look I want Toronto to succeed but let’s not kid ourselves that they haven’t caused a lot of this themselves.

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Just now, Chrispmartha said:

The point being you cannot cry the poor tale when spending more than the whole cap on one player, he may have given some good publicity but the fact they are struggling now and not paying players is arguably giving more column inches but not in a good way.

look I want Toronto to succeed but let’s not kid ourselves that they haven’t caused a lot of this themselves.

Indeed they have but as usual they have been badly treated by the "haters" and "naysayers".

They may be back next season but with a points penalty and a reduced squad.

 

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Thank you for your valuable contribution.

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8 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

 

He’s comparing two completely different organisations of two incredibly different sizes, he’s failing to acknowledge the cancellation of the NSW Cup and Queensland Cup, he’s failing to acknowledge any failings of the club and he’s put a weird dig in their about young English blokes going to Australia, apart from that he’s spot on. 

 

8 hours ago, Hela Wigmen said:

 

He’s comparing two completely different organisations of two incredibly different sizes, he’s failing to acknowledge the cancellation of the NSW Cup and Queensland Cup, he’s failing to acknowledge any failings of the club and he’s put a weird dig in their about young English blokes going to Australia, apart from that he’s spot on. 

People are saying McCrone is right, but he isn't saying anything of any substance in that tweet. 

He's listed a few areas and said the NRL is bigger than Super League. 

I'm not sure of the relevance of the NRL relocating families and players. Location of players isn't an issue. Visa issues had been sorted. 

Some of our biggest clubs have called out massive losses - Leeds around £4m, Wire £1.5m, Wigan admitting they are pumping cash in, the others will be the same, the RFL saying they will miss out on £3m from the Ashes and so on. 

I have a lot of sympathy for TWP, with all the scenario planning in the world they wouldn't have expected what is happening now, hence being reasonable when it comes to the fallout, but they need to be reasonable on that side too. 

Bob Hunter spoke well about this, it is a horrendous situation created by coronavirus. 

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8 minutes ago, Eddie said:

One player who massively raised their (and SL’s) profile. TWP have given rugby league more column inches than the rest of the 11 SL clubs combined have for the last decade. 

And the tangible benefits of that have been......?

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I’m not prejudiced, I hate everybody equally

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5 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

The point being you cannot cry the poor tale when spending more than the whole cap on one player, he may have given some good publicity but the fact they are struggling now and not paying players is arguably giving more column inches but not in a good way.

look I want Toronto to succeed but let’s not kid ourselves that they haven’t caused a lot of this themselves.

TWP have absolutely made a lot of bad decisions. Even before coronavirus, but that is part of the learning curve. 

But when deciding on future action, we should remove all impacts of coronavirus. If coronavirus hadn't come along, could they have paid, would they have been an asset to SL, and could they be an asset in 2021, if the answer is yes, and they can provide guarantees and learn from past actions, I think there is a place for them. 

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4 minutes ago, Derwent said:

And the tangible benefits of that have been......?

Whilst I think the SBW signing is a poor one, the reason we can't see any tangible benefits (or not) is because of coronavirus. 

We could only judge at the end of the year when income, crowds, sponsorship, viewing figs etc. come in. 

It's a slightly unfair question in the current climate. 

Edited by Dave T
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