The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Big Picture 1,445]

5 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Allowed spend is the lower of £2.1m or the club's sustainable cap (calculated from income, costs etc). If a club has a higher sustainable cap than £2.1m it can use the allowable dispensations to actually spend up to its sustainable cap (although recorded aggregate cap must, I believe, still not exceed £2.1m).

At that level neither the Wolfpack nor anyone else will be attracting any top RU talent.  The Aviva Premiership salary cap is 7 million £, the Top14 cap is about equal to Catalans' entire budget, and although the Pro14 doesn't have a cap a few years ago it was reportedly paying players 85% of what players in the Aviva Premiership were getting so we can notionally put their cap at 6 million £.  English RL is very much the poor cousin of RU in relative terms.

Edited February 15 by Big Picture

[Chamey 606]

What are the rules around players helping players? Presumably there isn't a rule against a player offering another player assistance. If so surely the key is to have a marquee player on big wages, who then out of the goodness of his heart provides certain amenities for the other players.

[Man of Kent 5,671]

1 hour ago, Big Picture said:

At that level neither the Wolfpack nor anyone else will be attracting any top RU talent.  The Aviva Premiership salary cap is 7 million £, the Top14 cap is about equal to Catalans' entire budget, and although the Pro14 doesn't have a cap a few years ago it was reportedly paying players 85% of what players in the Aviva Premiership were getting so we can notionally put their cap at 6 million £.  English RL is very much the poor cousin of RU in relative terms.

Out of interest what is the average size of an RU squad vs an RL squad (and I don’t mean fat lads but the total number of players!)

[Futtocks 12,603]

6 hours ago, Keith989 said:

I really have no idea why you think the Top 14 would let them in? They have 3 fully professional highly competitive divisions plus a semi pro fourth division and none of those teams would be willing to let a foreign team parachuted in ahead of them. The french do have a Swiss club in their leagues but they had to start from the very bottom, which is the 8th division I think?

And most of the aforementioned clubs are haemorrhaging far more money than they could even pretend to be making, so if a newcomer came in and it was possible that this addition would open up new avenues of exposure/money, they'd jump at the chance.

[Keith989 156]

1 minute ago, Futtocks said:

And most of the aforementioned clubs are haemorrhaging far more money than they could even pretend to be making, so if a newcomer came in and it was possible that this addition would open up new avenues of exposure/money, they'd jump at the chance.

The club's are funded by local mayors who pour most of their town's budgets into their rugby teams. There is no way they would let a foreign team jump the que.

[Futtocks 12,603]

8 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

The club's are funded by local mayors who pour most of their town's budgets into their rugby teams. There is no way they would let a foreign team jump the que.

They will when the losses become too much to brush under the budgetary carpet, or a mayoral candidate wins who'll ask those awkward questions.

[Big Picture 1,445]

23 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Out of interest what is the average size of an RU squad vs an RL squad (and I don’t mean fat lads but the total number of players!)

I checked on that and discovered that Aviva Premiership teams dress 23 players for a match, the 15 starters and 8 subs.  If we pro-rate their 7 million £ cap  by 17/23, that makes it equivalent to 5.17 million £ for an RL-size roster of players, or almost 2-1/2 times the current SL salary cap.

[Man of Kent 5,671]

7 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

I checked on that and discovered that Aviva Premiership teams dress 23 players for a match, the 15 starters and 8 subs.  If we pro-rate their 7 million £ cap  by 17/23, that makes it equivalent to 5.17 million £ for an RL-size roster of players, or almost 2-1/2 times the current SL salary cap.

OK, so it’s about £3m higher pro-rata. Good to know, ta.

[Man of Kent 5,671]

9 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

I checked on that and discovered that Aviva Premiership teams dress 23 players for a match, the 15 starters and 8 subs.  If we pro-rate their 7 million £ cap  by 17/23, that makes it equivalent to 5.17 million £ for an RL-size roster of players, or almost 2-1/2 times the current SL salary cap.

Do they have the marquee system in RU?

[Damien 7,945]

54 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

OK, so it’s about £3m higher pro-rata. Good to know, ta.

It's not just that though, RU squad sizes are 40 plus due to the need for cover for all the specialist positions. In contrast RL is about 25. That sucks up a lot of the extra salary cap too.

[Gambass 58]

1 hour ago, Keith989 said:

The club's are funded by local mayors who pour most of their town's budgets into their rugby teams. There is no way they would let a foreign team jump the que.

Heum... what about lol ?

Public subsidies (not just mayors) make for less than 2% of the TOP14 clubs budgets these days. That's 2% too much if you ask me, but that's just a fraction of clubs ressources, and just a tiny bit of town/departements/regions's budgets ('most of', come on...)

But you're right, it will never happen nevertheless.

[Man of Kent 5,671]

23 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's not just that though, RU squad sizes are 40 plus due to the need for cover for all the specialist positions. In contrast RL is about 25. That sucks up a lot of the extra salary cap too.

Indeed. I read the average was around 50. 

[blahblah 0]

18 minutes ago, Gambass said:

Heum... what about lol ?

Public subsidies (not just mayors) make for less than 2% of the TOP14 clubs budgets these days. That's 2% too much if you ask me, but that's just a fraction of clubs ressources, and just a tiny bit of town/departements/regions's budgets ('most of', come on...)

But you're right, it will never happen nevertheless.

It'll actually be interesting to see. There's a Swiss club making it's way through the French system and if they maintain their current trajectory should reach the ProD2 in the next couple of seasons. At the moment they aren't ruffling too many feathers but that's largely thanks to competing against teams that are at best semi-pro and mostly content with their station. But with entry into the ProD2 they'll be facing off with the traditional clubs that have all once had their time in the sun and despite a rather obvious shift toward larger cities beginning to make up the Top 14 still believe they should be there. 

[blahblah 0]

2 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Indeed. I read the average was around 50. 

That's with the Espoirs. Which are on a lot less money than the main squad.

[Man of Kent 5,671]

3 minutes ago, blahblah said:

That's with the Espoirs. Which are on a lot less money than the main squad.

Que?

[Big Picture 1,445]

53 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Que?

Maybe you meant to put quoi?

Espoir is French for hope, so the Espoirs are the hopefuls i.e. reserves.

[Chamey 606]

3 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Do they have the marquee system in RU?

Yes, in Eng Prem. Marquees are usually on £750k-£500k

40 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

Maybe you meant to put quoi?

Espoir is French for hope, so the Espoirs are the hopefuls i.e. reserves.

Espoirs are generally the youth, so 16-21 year olds;

[Big Picture 1,445]

4 minutes ago, Chamey said:

Espoirs are generally the youth, so 16-21 year olds;

Precisely, the hopefuls looking to work their way up to first grade from the reserves.

Edited February 15 by Big Picture

[CanadianRugger 1,301]

4 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Out of interest what is the average size of an RU squad vs an RL squad (and I don’t mean fat lads but the total number of players!)

Top flight Rugby Union clubs generally have around 40+ players on the roster with double and sometimes triple coverage in most positions.  

Leicester Tigers 1st XV is 47 players atm.  Many reasons for this:

1. Multiple Cup Competitions

2.  Internationals

3.  Regular Season

There is no break for international matches in the club season so clubs go without their best players during Six Nations, November Internationals, etc.

They need the bodies to be able to fill those spots for 22 rds in the regular season + a minimum 6rds in the Heineken Cup or Euro Challenge Cup + league playoffs.

[winnyason 295]

Why have twp not looked at gigot? 

[Man of Kent 5,671]

5 hours ago, CanadianRugger said:

Top flight Rugby Union clubs generally have around 40+ players on the roster with double and sometimes triple coverage in most positions.  

Leicester Tigers 1st XV is 47 players atm.  Many reasons for this:

1. Multiple Cup Competitions

2.  Internationals

3.  Regular Season

There is no break for international matches in the club season so clubs go without their best players during Six Nations, November Internationals, etc.

They need the bodies to be able to fill those spots for 22 rds in the regular season + a minimum 6rds in the Heineken Cup or Euro Challenge Cup + league playoffs.

Cheers, Rugger.

[Man of Kent 5,671]

3 hours ago, winnyason said:

Why have twp not looked at gigot? 

Why would TWP have looked at Gigot?!

[winnyason 295]

9 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Why would TWP have looked at Gigot?!

There halfback Josh mcrone fmd

 

[Man of Kent 5,671]

Just now, winnyason said:

There halfback Josh mcrone fmd

 

Astounding he played so many games in the NRL, isn’t it?

You’ve forgotten that TWP have spaffed all their lunch money.

[Harry Stottle 2,675]

13 hours ago, Chamey said:

What are the rules around players helping players? Presumably there isn't a rule against a player offering another player assistance. If so surely the key is to have a marquee player on big wages, who then out of the goodness of his heart provides certain amenities for the other players.

Don't understand Chamey.