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Dunbar

To scrum or not to scrum, that is the question

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This isn't a question of the value of the scrum... we have done that one to death.

But let's say that we decide to do away with the scrum altogether after the Covid measures are finished (the two games yesterday looked pretty good without them) but the NRL/Southern Hemisphere decided to keep them.

I know that we have always slightly different laws across competitions, which is a bit of an annoyance to me, but what would be the long term impact of one competition having the scrum and one not... despite it being a non event the presence (or not) of the scrum is a pretty big difference?

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7 minutes ago, Bulliac said:

I think the basic rule is WE follow the Aussies, not the other way round. Which suggests it won't happen.

I agree that is typically how it works and I don't think anything like removing the scrum over here would even be on the radar under normal circumstances.  But should we get to the end of the season and it is a big success then it may lead to a different decision.

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Short term I can see it affecting fitness levels. There's a natural break in play the players are no longer getting on top of the other changes we've made to speed up the game. If things continue at the intensity of yesterday's games I can see fatigue setting in quickly and quality dropping. Longer term maybe that would give us an edge on fitness as players adapt? Although in fairness we're already a bit behind on that front.

Aside from that, set plays from scrums seem to get rarer and rarer these days so I'm not sure we'd be at too much of a disadvantage there. You'd think it would be easy enough to pick up a couple of plays over the training before internationals, although lack of practice defending against them might be more of an issue.

I didn't really miss scrums yesterday but like you it annoys me that we play the sport with different rules. Hopefully the NRL will see this as a trial and they and SL can get their heads together at the end of the season and decide one way or another.

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Again, let me stress, I wasn't really thinking of this thread as being the value of the scrum or the benefits of keeping it or binning it. Rather the impact should we lose it and the SH keep it.

Is it the start of thinking of it as two different codes? Sounds alarmist but I wouldn't want any more barriers to Rugby League international competitions or growth because the laws aren't internationally unified. 

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If the NRL were adamant about keeping it, and we ditched it, something as simple as agreeing certain rules before any internationals were played would probably be the outcome, which would probably cause certain frictions, especially if scrums were used, and  then used as an advantage.

I used to enjoy it when teams would put on a decent attacking scrum play. No one seems to view it as an attacking opportunity anymore, which is one of the reasons many wont be too sad to see it go (though sure there are plenty of other reasons). 

All it would take is one coach to start using the scrum as an attacking weapon and if successful, all will follow suit. It's the way coaching trends work these days.

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As explained to me, the two boards meet before a tour / series takes place to agree the rules, remember up until March the NRL had two referees and Super League only the one. Yet International League was played with the one as agreed by both boards.

I would agree though I cannot think of another sport where the basic rules of the game differ depending on the country.


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I’ve always thought it mental that there’s basically two power bases of the game and we often play under different rules and interpretations ! Crazy . Then we get to internationals and it’s something else ... but people still wonder what the rules are . Are we playing it with the foot , well just wait and see when it starts . We must have uniform rules like football from a central source , not you do it so we better get in step . Or look at how they do it , should we do that ?

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All it would take is both sides to agree in forming an international rules committee. I think the NRL currently has one, though who is on it and how big it is im not sure, though a quick google search would probably find some answers.

Add a few International voices to that committee and we're on to a winner. Build a process into when and how any new rules/amendments can be reviewed and inserted into the game and everyones happy.

Feels like all it needs is the two main parties in the RFL and the ARLC to communicate.


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18 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

I would agree though I cannot think of another sport where the basic rules of the game differ depending on the country.

A slight diversion: ice hockey. https://www.liveabout.com/olympic-hockey-rules-versus-nhl-rules-2778897


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I must admit to not stressing too much about local rules in different comps. I think it probably happens more than we think across the world.

But on the scrums, we need to be very careful here, this isn't a minor tweak like most of the others are, and it changes the game at least aesthetically quite a lot.

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27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I must admit to not stressing too much about local rules in different comps. I think it probably happens more than we think across the world.

But on the scrums, we need to be very careful here, this isn't a minor tweak like most of the others are, and it changes the game at least aesthetically quite a lot.

Agree. If SL play for 2 seasons without scrums and the NRL stick with scrums, by the time the world cup comes along those players will be really disadvantaged. Training, conditionally, positionally et al.

Edited by Scubby

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The Laws of the Game must be upheld. The Scrum has its own Chapter, Chapter 12 of the Laws of the Game. 

Otherwise we are not United and not playing the same game. 

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21 hours ago, Moove said:

Short term I can see it affecting fitness levels. There's a natural break in play the players are no longer getting on top of the other changes we've made to speed up the game. If things continue at the intensity of yesterday's games I can see fatigue setting in quickly and quality dropping. Longer term maybe that would give us an edge on fitness as players adapt? Although in fairness we're already a bit behind on that front.

Aside from that, set plays from scrums seem to get rarer and rarer these days so I'm not sure we'd be at too much of a disadvantage there. You'd think it would be easy enough to pick up a couple of plays over the training before internationals, although lack of practice defending against them might be more of an issue.

I didn't really miss scrums yesterday but like you it annoys me that we play the sport with different rules. Hopefully the NRL will see this as a trial and they and SL can get their heads together at the end of the season and decide one way or another.

Apparently tries from scrums in the NRL have significantly increased. I don’t have figures, just heard a commentator say it a week or two ago.

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21 hours ago, Dunbar said:

Again, let me stress, I wasn't really thinking of this thread as being the value of the scrum or the benefits of keeping it or binning it. Rather the impact should we lose it and the SH keep it.

Is it the start of thinking of it as two different codes? Sounds alarmist but I wouldn't want any more barriers to Rugby League international competitions or growth because the laws aren't internationally unified. 

Whichever league plays to or closest to the IRL Laws will benefit slightly. Scrum plays for the pro and fitness for the negative query of keeping scrums.

I agree, to consider this the dawn of a new code is alarmist.

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Rugby without scrum (even without pushing),  is not rugby.

The play the ball restart is stupid ( a play the ball is after the ruck, not without ruck...).

A tap restart, direct or with possible touch kicking, is more logic after the last tackle or instead of the scrum adjournment (2020)

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Bring em back 

The game is sh/t€ without them. 

Look at the scorelines since the resumption of the season. 

A team struggling or off to a bad start, or even just have a bad 5 minute period are on the backfoot with no time to reset or reorganise.

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I was always for keeping them, that was before seeing games without them.  I’ve not noticed anything that suggests the game needs them back in the slightest.


Apart from Masters rugby when they are essential  - we need that break 😜

 

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Not missed them at all. Combined with the restart rule it feels like an evolutionary leap forward and a good one if we get to see more rugby of the type St Helen's and Salford put on today. I think it also has the potential to push us another step ahead of RU (who will never abolish the scrum) in terms of entertainment value.

Edited by Whippet13
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On 04/08/2020 at 11:49, Scubby said:

Agree. If SL play for 2 seasons without scrums and the NRL stick with scrums, by the time the world cup comes along those players will be really disadvantaged. Training, conditionally, positionally et al.

Hopefully the NRL will stick with the scrums and we can somehow sneak through an international rule change to omit them a fortnight before RLWC2021 starts - the Aussies wouldn't hesitate to do the same thing if it gave them an advantage.

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How is it entertaining to see cricket scores run up every match? 

It's already exhausting to play when there is scrums. Let's make playing the game even more difficult for people to participate in en masse. 

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No appetite for getting rid of scrums over here, Parra`s big push and win against the feed yesterday was greeted with much excitement, there has been more tries from scrum plays this year and everyone loves seeing centre on centre  without a second rower standing next to him.

Proceed with the knowledge that scrums aren`t going anywhere over here.

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If you have a team that doesn't have scrums at all against one that does, especially the Kangaroos, you'd get torn apart if they move the ball properly as defenders won't be used to having to defend in that way at all. 

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