The Away fans argument

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

300 away fans each game at 12 quid.

300 X 12 = 3600 

3600 × 13 (home games a year)

£46,800. So yes it is about 46 grand. 

I'm not saying that is what people get but using it as an illustration of why people say away fans matter. That was pretty clear.

You've already said that but it isn't 12 games. That is just a false argument. We are talking a couple of teams at most in each league.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, ShropshireBull said:

You have clearly missed the point. 

I've not. The point is obvious but it is false. Even if clubs where more spread out it would still be false as some would naturally be close together and would have some away fans.

[The Future is League]

6 hours ago, MattSantos said:

Or the NFLers.

Its just an excuse for incredibly poor management

Indeed. Clubs should focus a lot more in promoting there home games to local people, and not relying on away support, but away fans are always welcome

[Scubby]

The number of season ticket holders a club can secure is the key. If you have a much lower base than you did 5-10 years ago then the 250 Salford fans who turn up to St Helens are negated by the 1200 Saints fans who pick the game to swerve and save money on a match ticket.

That is why the NRL pushes memberships hard - maximum amount of buy in you can get from the largest number of people. It then compensates for stuff like poor weather and poor form impacting on match day attendances and revenues.

[DimmestStar]

Of course away fans are important. Hull FC have over 8,000 members and Hull KR over 6,000 members but it's still not enough to break even.

When Hull KR visit Hull FC the crowd is about 8,000 higher than average. That's worth £200,000 in extra gate receipts alone. Every other season Hull KR visit twice so then it's getting close to an extra half a million pounds for Hull FC. No wonder Adam Pearson wants Rovers in Super League!

Rovers don't make as much because the stadium can't hold enough Hull FC fans but it is still the top attendance of the season and very useful extra income. It's great and a good boost when clubs like Wakefield, Leeds and Cas bring a thousand or more fans. Of course those clubs benefit even more from the big Rovers and Hull FC away following.

It's fine saying away fans don't matter but you won't find owners like Adam Pearson and Neil Hudgell agreeing. They're shelling out enough of their own money as it is.

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

Away fans don’t travel in numbers like they used to, don’t know if it’s because of sky matches or lack of Sunday afternoon games but I’ve noticed away support dwindling year on year.  

[Oxford]

I've read all the way through this thread and I'm no further forward in knowing what the away fans were arguing about!

[Simon Hall]

Super League in particular needs to be a more attractive proposition for people and have more destination clubs, where fans and their families visit the place for a day/night out or weekend away as well as take in a game to get full value for their time and money. 

Places like Leigh for instance.

[WakefieldCityLoyal]

16 minutes ago, Simon Hall said:

Super League in particular needs to be a more attractive proposition for people and have more destination clubs, where fans and their families visit the place for a day/night out or weekend away as well as take in a game to get full value for their time and money. 

Places like Leigh for instance.

Can normal RL fans afford that every other Weekend?

[whatmichaelsays]

1 hour ago, DimmestStar said:

Of course away fans are important. Hull FC have over 8,000 members and Hull KR over 6,000 members but it's still not enough to break even.

When Hull KR visit Hull FC the crowd is about 8,000 higher than average. That's worth £200,000 in extra gate receipts alone. Every other season Hull KR visit twice so then it's getting close to an extra half a million pounds for Hull FC. No wonder Adam Pearson wants Rovers in Super League!

Rovers don't make as much because the stadium can't hold enough Hull FC fans but it is still the top attendance of the season and very useful extra income. It's great and a good boost when clubs like Wakefield, Leeds and Cas bring a thousand or more fans. Of course those clubs benefit even more from the big Rovers and Hull FC away following.

It's fine saying away fans don't matter but you won't find owners like Adam Pearson and Neil Hudgell agreeing. They're shelling out enough of their own money as it is.

Nobody is saying that they don't matter. What they are arguing is whether "away fans" are given too much importance on the agenda when it comes to discussions about the direction of the sport. 

Your argument that 8,000 Hull FC members isn't enough to break even is kind of the point. If I were Adam Pearson in that situation, I'd be spending less time banging the drum for my nearest rivals to be in SL and more of my time investigating why my club doesn't have enough of a customer base to break even and what can be done about it - that's a much bigger existential threat to my club than whether or not the next door neighbours get relegated.

He may well be doing that already, in which case Hull would have no issue improving their 8,000 memberships, unless they've saturated their potential market - and if that is the case then again, their problems are much bigger than whether or not they have two home games against Hull KR.

For me, I just sum it up like this. Whilst other sports, big and small, have spent the last 10 years looking to expand their global footprint, TV audiences around the world and digital media presence to find new audiences, rugby league seems to have spent the time splitting hairs over which club brings the most away fans. That's not growth. 

[Simon Hall]

28 minutes ago, WakefieldCityLoyal said:

Can normal RL fans afford that every other Weekend?

Yeah no bother. Just sack the Sky subscription off.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

3 hours ago, Simon Hall said:

Super League in particular needs to be a more attractive proposition for people and have more destination clubs, where fans and their families visit the place for a day/night out or weekend away as well as take in a game to get full value for their time and money. 

Places like Leigh for instance.

Have to say I agree (apart from the Leigh bit of sauce at the end) 

Getting her indoors to agree to watch a N. Saints game at the Rec is easy because she gets a lovely night in Bath too

York/London (for the Northerners) could be the same

[yipyee]

12 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Who is saying, I mean what clubs are saying, that they need to rely on away fans?

Surely no one is saying they "need" fans, away or otherwise.  With no fans there is no game.  Away fans are part of that and I would have thought that all clubs would be very wise to welcome away fans.  It's part of the game.  None of that stops clubs from still growing tbeir own fan base... no one is saying otherwise.

This issue seems absurd.

Wrong,

I think this year has proven that the players are playing to win and not to entertain fans.

Clubs would still exist without fans, it would also be professional for the clubs with wealthy benefactors.

[yipyee]

5 hours ago, WakefieldCityLoyal said:

Away fans don’t travel in numbers like they used to, don’t know if it’s because of sky matches or lack of Sunday afternoon games but I’ve noticed away support dwindling year on year.  

The emphasis is now on ST sales.

So instead of fans choosing games to go to they prepay or pay by DD to go to all home games. The concept of paying to go to an away game is then out of the ordinary as games are at no immediate cost as the cost of the ST has been budgeted for.

I pick 3 away games to go to a season as i go all the home games.

Wigan, Huddersfield and one at random depending on where ive not been for a while

[GUBRATS]

14 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

I dont understand it, why is it such a big factor? Shouldn’t clubs be focusing on growing their own fan base? Do Toulouse and Catalans rely on away fans?

It isn't 

Apart from on here 

[GUBRATS]

13 hours ago, Eddie said:

Decent away support makes a game better imho, as the atmosphere is so much better, but I wouldn’t let that stop expansion. 

Nobody is 

[Omott91]

14 hours ago, Mr Plow said:

I dont understand it, why is it such a big factor? Shouldn’t clubs be focusing on growing their own fan base? Do Toulouse and Catalans rely on away fans?

I think it's the insularity mindset of some English people who almost believe that it's like a birth right to be able to attend any game should they want to. 

[GUBRATS]

10 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

At lower levels I understand.  Even 300 away fans at £12 over a championship season is 46 grand a year.  That's 2 or 3 part time players but at full time level,  the onus is on you with rivalries should be a luxury.  It is what makes Warrington so impressive. 

The thing with the lower levels is as much a lack of atmosphere , generally the stadiums are less full than SL , so to help create that ' big game ' feeling a sizable , usually vocal ( everybody tries harder away from home to lift your team ) away following helps 

 

 

[Niels]

17 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

I think it's the insularity mindset of some English people who almost believe that it's like a birth right to be able to attend any game should they want to. 

English? That's bad stereotyping. 

I lived in Turkey and I can assure you the supporters there are more fanatical about watching games. 

It's not even "English" insularity as Rangers and Celtic fans travel in greater numbers. 

I actually think it is great. And of course Covid has shown the fans don't think they have a right at all.

 

 

[GUBRATS]

5 hours ago, Simon Hall said:

Super League in particular needs to be a more attractive proposition for people and have more destination clubs, where fans and their families visit the place for a day/night out or weekend away as well as take in a game to get full value for their time and money. 

Places like Leigh for instance.

So you believe away fans are very important ?

[GUBRATS]

35 minutes ago, Omott91 said:

I think it's the insularity mindset of some English people who almost believe that it's like a birth right to be able to attend any game should they want to. 

Complete nonsense 

[Oldbear]

It’s a little bit of a red herring to say that there’s no away fans in North American sports. For example the southern US hockey teams, like Florida and Arizona, actively target Canadian teams fans to come down and take in a game, plus stay a few days to get some sun and escape the Canadian winters. In the NFL the Cardinals, Chargers and the Jaguars, and until very recently the Titans, also targeted fans of certain clubs to take in their teams games and make a long weekend of it too (prior to COVID the Cardinals home games versus the likes of Seattle and Pittsburgh would probably see around 20% of the stadium made up of visiting fans. The main difference is that those teams will firstly maximize their home sales first, then offer to visitors what’s left, and of course some teams, like Pittsburgh and Seattle, have such long waiting lists for tickets that they don’t need to attract visiting teams fans. Oh and by the way, the atmosphere for a Cardinals v Seahawks game in Arizona is great, helped by the number of visiting fans in the stadium, which only goes to show that wherever you are, the game day experience is really enhanced when you have a decent away following.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

If no teams took fans away from home it would be terrible for SL. Atmospheres would be much worse and whilst teams shouldn't rely on away fans for income, the product suffers when attendances are lower and it is both visible and audible on TV. 

I cant think of many, if any, SL clubs who can regularly sell out their home games even with away fans, let alone without. There are probably a handful of fixtures where this would happen.

The OP is clearly just another brattish swipe at the Leigh decision, when there are clear and obvious benefits to away fans.

Should clubs pin all their financial plans on away fans? No. Should they be looking to build their own support base? Yes, of course, but that will be much easier when you can introduce new fans to those better atmospheres. I'm sure a large part of Catalans business model is built around the traveling away fans and how they can monetize that experience so let's kick them out hey? 

Away fans are a plus for the league. Not the most important criteria but a definite positive and should be viewed as such.

[MattSantos]

12 hours ago, The Future is League said:

Indeed. Clubs should focus a lot more in promoting there home games to local people, and not relying on away support, but away fans are always welcome

Absolutely. 

The fixtures could help, too. Hull v Wigan on a Thursday night isn't ideal. 

[Omott91]

7 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

Complete nonsense 

It's just my opinion gauged from this forum, especially when Toronto were admitted.