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Herbie Farnworth right now


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1 minute ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

It’s good the lad has a fan club. Good luck to him, particularly given the way he has backed himself. Having seen all too often NRL “superstars” come up short when selected for England, I would be very reluctant to assume he was a world beater. Would he get into either SoO team? If not, and I don’t see anybody arguing that he would, then he’s not a world beater and won’t make that much difference to us either way. It’s when people start talking about eligibility - like they did for Sam Burgess - that we should sit up and take notice. 

He doesn’t have to be a world beater or get into an origin team he just has to be better than what we have , some who’ve come up short for us already 

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12 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

It’s good the lad has a fan club. Good luck to him, particularly given the way he has backed himself. Having seen all too often NRL “superstars” come up short when selected for England, I would be very reluctant to assume he was a world beater. Would he get into either SoO team? If not, and I don’t see anybody arguing that he would, then he’s not a world beater and won’t make that much difference to us either way. It’s when people start talking about eligibility - like they did for Sam Burgess - that we should sit up and take notice. 

If we're only picking players that would make a SoO side, we're going to have a very small team. Let's at least pick a full team (of the best available players).

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16 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

It’s good the lad has a fan club. Good luck to him, particularly given the way he has backed himself. Having seen all too often NRL “superstars” come up short when selected for England, I would be very reluctant to assume he was a world beater. Would he get into either SoO team? If not, and I don’t see anybody arguing that he would, then he’s not a world beater and won’t make that much difference to us either way. It’s when people start talking about eligibility - like they did for Sam Burgess - that we should sit up and take notice. 

The question isn't 'is he a world beater or world class' (whatever that actually means).

The question is, is Farnworth one of the two best centres available for England selection. If so, then pick him. If not, don't pick him. Whether he is a world beater or not has nothing to do with it.

And if we use your SoO origin selection point, we'll only have a 6 man England team!! lol.

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26 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

It’s good the lad has a fan club. Good luck to him, particularly given the way he has backed himself. Having seen all too often NRL “superstars” come up short when selected for England, I would be very reluctant to assume he was a world beater. Would he get into either SoO team? If not, and I don’t see anybody arguing that he would, then he’s not a world beater and won’t make that much difference to us either way. It’s when people start talking about eligibility - like they did for Sam Burgess - that we should sit up and take notice. 

At 6'3" and not far off 17 stone that is far more size and strength than we have had at centre for quite some time. Centre is the most difficult position to defend and playing in the NRL, against other big, powerful centres is a huge plus. Its not that often we have had an athlete like that to choose from at centre. I don't know if he is ready yet either but for these reasons alone he should be given serious consideration over the likes of Gildart and Percival.

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19 minutes ago, Damien said:

At 6'3" and not far off 17 stone that is far more size and strength than we have had at centre for quite some time. Centre is the most difficult position to defend and playing in the NRL, against other big, powerful centres is a huge plus. Its not that often we have had an athlete like that to choose from at centre.

From what I have seen of him, he also looks he uses that size well.

This guy is no Karl Pryce. 

I think he could add real value to an England team. I would definitely have him in the squad.

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We're only 4 games into the NRL season so far so there's plenty of time for him to prove himself and for others over here to put themselves into the frame. Given that he's got a fair bit of experience across the back line, Farnworth looks like a valuable squad member if he can show good form and keep building through the rest of the year.

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4 hours ago, AB90 said:

The question isn't 'is he a world beater or world class' (whatever that actually means).

The question is, is Farnworth one of the two best centres available for England selection. If so, then pick him. If not, don't pick him. Whether he is a world beater or not has nothing to do with it.

And if we use your SoO origin selection point, we'll only have a 6 man England team!! lol.

I don’t agree. We are better picking players in SL who stand out than plodders in the NRL like Farnworth and Sutton. If they can’t stand out over there, then they aren’t going to be good enough.
Moreover we stand more chance of an SL off the cuff unknown doing something unexpected and having an impact. That is how it has worked out over the last 20 years. Take Widdop - ace in the NRL, thought probably below NRL level, bog standard over here. Give me an outstanding SL player over the “all NRLers are gods” any day, especially for a competition based over here. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I don’t agree. We are better picking players in SL who stand out than plodders in the NRL like Farnworth and Sutton. If they can’t stand out over there, then they aren’t going to be good enough.
Moreover we stand more chance of an SL off the cuff unknown doing something unexpected and having an impact. That is how it has worked out over the last 20 years. Take Widdop - ace in the NRL, thought probably below NRL level, bog standard over here. Give me an outstanding SL player over the “all NRLers are gods” any day, especially for a competition based over here. 
 

 

I just want the best players selected regardless of what competition they play in.

But when deciding and measuring players you do need to take into consideration the leagues they play in and the overall strength of those leagues. 

How do you know Farnworth wouldn't be a standout if he played in SL? Kevin Nequama and Konrad Hurrell made the 2020 SL dream team at centre which indicates that  nrl 'plodders' can very easily be SL standouts.

Jackson Hastings and Bevan French were both playing reserve grade in the nrl before coming here and are in the top 5 players in SL.

I would be curious to know stance on Luke Thompson? He was the best prop in SL before he left, now hes effectively a 'plodder' in the nrl. I assume hes been crossed off your world cup list?

 

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17 minutes ago, AB90 said:

I just want the best players selected regardless of what competition they play in.

But when deciding and measuring players you do need to take into consideration the leagues they play in and the overall strength of those leagues. 

Jackson Hastings and Bevan French were both playing reserve grade in the nrl before coming here and are in the top 5 players in SL.

 

 

Wasn't Hastings a Disciplinary issue not form, he was hounded out of the NRL. 

There are examples both ways, some squad players have excelled in the NRL and bigger names not so, and i have seen stars from the NRL flop and relative unknowns excel. Bur recently there are plenty of what would be classed as average overseas players in SL get contracts in the NRL. 

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49 minutes ago, AB90 said:

I just want the best players selected regardless of what competition they play in.

But when deciding and measuring players you do need to take into consideration the leagues they play in and the overall strength of those leagues. 

How do you know Farnworth wouldn't be a standout if he played in SL? Kevin Nequama and Konrad Hurrell made the 2020 SL dream team at centre which indicates that  nrl 'plodders' can very easily be SL standouts.

Jackson Hastings and Bevan French were both playing reserve grade in the nrl before coming here and are in the top 5 players in SL.

I would be curious to know stance on Luke Thompson? He was the best prop in SL before he left, now hes effectively a 'plodder' in the nrl. I assume hes been crossed off your world cup list?

 

Works both ways, horses for courses - Take someone like Greg Eastwood- over 250 NRL games, about 30 NZ caps and was absolutely awful in SL - he got dominated by SL forwards and couldn't hold onto a ball - in the end Leeds had to practically beg an NRL team to get him off their books as he was that bad - now in his mid 30s and still playing NRL I believe.

The likes of Hastings has flourished in SL as it allows for more freedom than the NRL to express himself- saying that he doesn't look as good for Wigan as he did for Salford as Wigan are a better team, play more structure and have better players - at Salford he was a big fish and could play as he wanted - something he could never do in the NRL.

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2 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I don’t agree. We are better picking players in SL who stand out than plodders in the NRL like Farnworth and Sutton. If they can’t stand out over there, then they aren’t going to be good enough.
Moreover we stand more chance of an SL off the cuff unknown doing something unexpected and having an impact. That is how it has worked out over the last 20 years. Take Widdop - ace in the NRL, thought probably below NRL level, bog standard over here. Give me an outstanding SL player over the “all NRLers are gods” any day, especially for a competition based over here. 
 

 

He’s got some good stats so far in the 4 games he’s played this season. Of all the NRL centres he’s far and away number one in Total Run Metres, just outside the top ten in Tackle Busts. 163 Post Contact Metres and a Tackle Efficiency Rate of 90.9%.

Not too bad for a plodder. 

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1 hour ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Wasn't Hastings a Disciplinary issue not form, he was hounded out of the NRL. 

There are examples both ways, some squad players have excelled in the NRL and bigger names not so, and i have seen stars from the NRL flop and relative unknowns excel. Bur recently there are plenty of what would be classed as average overseas players in SL get contracts in the NRL. 

Hastings fell out with the Manly captain and coach. Hardly a reason to be hounded out of an entire league. But yes, I believe he came here to get away from the nrl fish bowl and sort out some personal issues.

Of course there are examples both ways but the chances are, if your an average or below average nrl player you will most probably be a good SL player. Farnworth looks to be an above average nrl player which would indicate he would be a top level SL player (he may not be, but chances are he would).

No different to a below average SL squad player moving to the championship.

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3 hours ago, AB90 said:

I just want the best players selected regardless of what competition they play in.

But when deciding and measuring players you do need to take into consideration the leagues they play in and the overall strength of those leagues. 

How do you know Farnworth wouldn't be a standout if he played in SL? Kevin Nequama and Konrad Hurrell made the 2020 SL dream team at centre which indicates that  nrl 'plodders' can very easily be SL standouts.

Jackson Hastings and Bevan French were both playing reserve grade in the nrl before coming here and are in the top 5 players in SL.

I would be curious to know stance on Luke Thompson? He was the best prop in SL before he left, now hes effectively a 'plodder' in the nrl. I assume hes been crossed off your world cup list?

 

No, I think that Thompson could do a great job in a World Cup over here. If someone isn’t SoO level in the NRL, they aren’t going to get us over the line in October. 
Percival and Gildart are unknown quantities to the NRLers, and we have seen many of our more off the cuff players do well - we need to play to our style in our conditions. It isn’t as structured as the NRL, which is why it suits players like French and Hastings. 
We don’t have anything like the strength in depth of the NRL, or enough players of the brilliance of Tedesco, but we can put out a team which can give them a game. What we know fails, as it has failed every time, is that drawing on average NRL players who have never played over here never works. We know Thompson  is class in our conditions, just as we know how average Sutton is. 

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6 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

No, I think that Thompson could do a great job in a World Cup over here. If someone isn’t SoO level in the NRL, they aren’t going to get us over the line in October. 
Percival and Gildart are unknown quantities to the NRLers, and we have seen many of our more off the cuff players do well - we need to play to our style in our conditions. It isn’t as structured as the NRL, which is why it suits players like French and Hastings. 
We don’t have anything like the strength in depth of the NRL, or enough players of the brilliance of Tedesco, but we can put out a team which can give them a game. What we know fails, as it has failed every time, is that drawing on average NRL players who have never played over here never works. We know Thompson  is class in our conditions, just as we know how average Sutton is. 

But Luke Thompson wouldn't be anywhere near a SoO team so that slightly contradicts your selection policy.

You keep mentioning these average nrl players that have never played over here? What, Chris Heighington and Chris McQueen? That's two players over the last 10 years. What we also know is that picking SL players has also failed every single time.

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6 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I don’t agree. We are better picking players in SL who stand out than plodders in the NRL like Farnworth and Sutton. If they can’t stand out over there, then they aren’t going to be good enough.
 

 

Another poster has already addressed some stats for 'Plodder' Farnworth so l'll address 'Plodder' Sutton.

 

Using current form (this season) as a guide, 'Plodder' Sutton - for forwards in the NRL - is 8th for metres, 7th for post-contact metres. Klemmer is the only player in the league who has made more tackles and more metres than Sutton. Only two forwards have scored more tries than Sutton this season. 

 

There's a long way to go but it's not bad for an average plodder 🙄

 

Edited by Alan Robertson
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12 minutes ago, Alan Robertson said:

 

Another poster has already addressed some stats for 'Plodder' Farnworth so l'll address 'Plodder' Sutton.

 

Using current form (this season) as a guide, 'Plodder' Sutton - for forwards in the NRL - is 8th for metres, 7th for post-contact metres. Klemmer is the only player in the league who has made more tackles and more metres than Sutton. Only two forwards have scored more tries than Sutton this season. 

 

There's a long way to go but it's not bad for an average plodder 🙄

 

Exiled Wiganer knows best 😉

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3 hours ago, Alan Robertson said:

 

Another poster has already addressed some stats for 'Plodder' Farnworth so l'll address 'Plodder' Sutton.

 

Using current form (this season) as a guide, 'Plodder' Sutton - for forwards in the NRL - is 8th for metres, 7th for post-contact metres. Klemmer is the only player in the league who has made more tackles and more metres than Sutton. Only two forwards have scored more tries than Sutton this season. 

 

There's a long way to go but it's not bad for an average plodder 🙄

 

If he keeps plodding away he could possibly get a big move to SuperLeague. Perhaps a Hull KR or even Wakefield might give him the chance to make the step up. That would be amazing for the lad.

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11 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

No, I think that Thompson could do a great job in a World Cup over here. If someone isn’t SoO level in the NRL, they aren’t going to get us over the line in October. 
Percival and Gildart are unknown quantities to the NRLers, and we have seen many of our more off the cuff players do well - we need to play to our style in our conditions. It isn’t as structured as the NRL, which is why it suits players like French and Hastings. 
We don’t have anything like the strength in depth of the NRL, or enough players of the brilliance of Tedesco, but we can put out a team which can give them a game. What we know fails, as it has failed every time, is that drawing on average NRL players who have never played over here never works. We know Thompson  is class in our conditions, just as we know how average Sutton is. 

Sutton average??

If he came back to Wigan he’d be our best middle forward by a country mile.

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13 hours ago, burnleywelsh said:

Exiled Wiganer knows best 😉

Oh grow up: I have seen Jack Reed play for GB, and Farnworth hasn’t even done what he has done. I have seen Sutton play dozens of times, I know exactly how good he is. If a player in the NRL is not a top tier NRLer then we have never gained from picking them over an SL star less well known to the Aussies. Every England/GB triumph has been built on sticking to actual stars. A star in the SL is a better bet than an NRL plodder.
 

I have seen every second of the NRL shown in the UK this year and last, and seen nothing to suggest that Sutton is a better bet than Bateman (who has spent years completely outclassing him in the same team, for goodness sake) or Knowles. Anyone who saw how Thompson went over here can be confident he will go well in a World Cup in the UK. Whether he stands out over there or not is irrelevant as he is already a known commodity in our conditions. 
 

Every NRL team needs steady, efficient and structured players. England needs a shock and off the cuff approach to win - an English style if you will. 
 

It isn’t a question of “best” = most likely to hold down a place in the NRL, it is a question of “best” = most likely to help us win a one off knock out game against a team that will do structure and efficiency better than us forever. 

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10 hours ago, Davo5 said:

Sutton average??

If he came back to Wigan he’d be our best middle forward by a country mile.

There is absolutely no evidence for that at all. All of the actual evidence, from having played for Wigan for years and having played alongside Bateman here and there, shows that he is a long way from that. He has been well coached and got fitter, but it is a flight of fantasy to assume that an average NRLer must be heads and shoulders above any SLer, err, just cos NRLers = Gods. 

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14 minutes ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

There is absolutely no evidence for that at all. All of the actual evidence, from having played for Wigan for years and having played alongside Bateman here and there, shows that he is a long way from that. He has been well coached and got fitter, but it is a flight of fantasy to assume that an average NRLer must be heads and shoulders above any SLer, err, just cos NRLers = Gods. 

His format the back end of last season and his early season form is a long way from average.

Why are you even comparing Sutton & Bateman,they play totally different games and yes Sutton would be Wigan’s best middle forward if he came back.

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2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Picked in the squad, then. Who was the last Herbert to play for England/Great Britain?

Depending on how you want to look at it, it was either Herbert Smith in 1927 (Heritage number 160), or Norman Herbert in 1962 (Number 412).

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"I'm a traditionalist and I don"t think you'd ever see me coaching an Australian national side!"  Lee Radford, RLW March 2016

Proud to be a member of the TRL woke claque

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Farnworth's flexibility stands him in good stead.

Like Sutton, his career is on an upward trajectory and, with decent players around him, he could be a lot better.

Sutton was an average player when he left these shores. He's putting in a lot of effort at Canberra and had stepped up a couple of levels in the close season.

I think there are others better than him, but if he keeps progressing at the current rate, that list is going to get pretty short, pretty quickly.

As for Thompson, a little while ago he made the World XIII. He struggled in his first few games for a terrible team, but soon stepped it up. I'm sure he'll be back amongst the best in the world quite soon.

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