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Danny Ward leaves London


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16 minutes ago, EssexRL said:

The key problem was (is) players. If you are setting up an RL team in Oxford, say, where is your squad going to come from or at least a competitive squad? The Skolars owner pointed this out when expansion was first mooted. Hemel, Skolars, Wales, All Golds and Oxford were all fishing in a very limited talent pool (us and Hemel could call on Bronco's players). None of the clubs were competitive (except against each other) which hardly made for an interesting spectacle.

Add to that the marketing of the game was left to the club's (who had no money) is it any surprise they failed on the whole?

As an aside I have also noticed amongst the Skolars faithful how many have northern accents - I know some are northern ex pats who want to follow RL down here and Skolars are there nearest team. There are very few people like me and my son who are southerners who follow the sport.

There are no easy answers.

Expansion clubs on or close to the fringe of rugby league's heartlands, with relatively good access to players, have failed, though, haven't they.

Carlisle, Chorley and Mansfield (maybe even Blackpool) spring to mind. 

Edited by Hopping Mad
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3 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Hope you're not trying to blame a groundshare that hasn't even got planning permission yet instead of the glorified park pitch that is Ealing being a dead end 😉 

OTOH absolutely do blame the groundshare. Because it's the perfect example of a club that hasn't got a clue what it's doing and no understanding of who its support actually is or how to grow it.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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No I'm not. The challenges are due to the loss of central funding and the loss of the support base.

The latter process started well before the move to Wimbledon was touted. It would be ludicrously simplistic to blame one factor for to the long running erosion of the supporter base.

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1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

OTOH absolutely do blame the groundshare. Because it's the perfect example of a club that hasn't got a clue what it's doing and no understanding of who its support actually is or how to grow it.

Well, given Broncos' gates have dropped to tenth-tier football levels at Ealing, might it not be an idea to move to a ground with proper facilities (assuming Hughes will foot the bill)?

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From Hughes himself in 2018

The new-look London are keen to establish roots as they take on the top-flight again. “Being so nomadic just hasn’t helped in terms of having consistent success anywhere,” Hughes says. “You can’t build any foundations anywhere, but now we think that’s changing.”

I“It’s the one place we’ve settled,” Hughes says. “We can train on the artificial surface every day, and we’ve brought all our junior teams under one venue. I see no reason why we’d need to change again. The challenge for us now is to build a gate and a local fanbase. We’ve dined out on excuses whenever we’ve moved around the city. Now, London Broncos have a venue that works.”

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/nov/29/london-broncos-david-hughes

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5 minutes ago, Ivarr the Boneless said:

If Broncos do go part time, I suspect they won't be moving to Wimbledon.

That move was to facilitate a possible return to Superleague. I doubt that will be on the radar of a part time team. 

Might be right there though at present the Dons Trust believes it’s more likely to happen than not. We’ll see. 

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2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

There are limits on how long you can reasonably keep data and what it can be used for.

Despite thinking I'd given the Broncos consent to contact me about pretty much anything it's been a long while since I had anything directly from them so they must have some sort of cut offs with regards to last response and when consent was obtained.

Or they just don't try hard enough.

They've got my details for sure, (I've bought plenty of tickets online in the last five years or so) but the efforts they've made to keep me as a fan have been pretty non-existent.

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6 minutes ago, Dr Tim Whatley said:

Or they just don't try hard enough.

They've got my details for sure, (I've bought plenty of tickets online in the last five years or so) but the efforts they've made to keep me as a fan have been pretty non-existent.

I had a season ticket up until 18 months ago, and I can't remember the last time I had an email from the club. It was probably the one telling us they couldn't tell us we were moving to Wimbledon - about 3 months after AFCW had announced it.

I also notice that the man most likely responsible for this latest, and probably final, attempt to alienate everyone connected to the club hasn't been seen posting on the fans' forum for a long while now.

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"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

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1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

Well, given Broncos' gates have dropped to tenth-tier football levels at Ealing, might it not be an idea to move to a ground with proper facilities (assuming Hughes will foot the bill)?

Mate, it's a perfectly reasonable but not exactly inspiring football league ground. It's not the Bernabeu. 

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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28 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Compared to Ealing, it's not a million miles off. It's even got indoor toilets!

"Rugby League: You Can Wee Indoors"

The slogans write themselves sometimes

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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43 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

I had a season ticket up until 18 months ago, and I can't remember the last time I had an email from the club. It was probably the one telling us they couldn't tell us we were moving to Wimbledon - about 3 months after AFCW had announced it.

I also notice that the man most likely responsible for this latest, and probably final, attempt to alienate everyone connected to the club hasn't been seen posting on the fans' forum for a long while now.

They just make it too easy to drift away, don't they?

My first sporting love are Southend United FC. The club has been an absolute bin fire for the last two and half years, suffering back-to-back relegations. But even they realise you should still keep in touch with your fans. Even when the weekly newsletter usually leads with "Blues battle hard in 4-1 defeat".

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7 hours ago, EssexRL said:

As an aside I have also noticed amongst the Skolars faithful how many have northern accents - I know some are northern ex pats who want to follow RL down here and Skolars are there nearest team. There are very few people like me and my son who are southerners who follow the sport.

That was not always the case in the early years, it became that way as things drifted on.  You did a thread about why people got into Rugby League out of non-traditional areas a coupe of years ago. Personally I am a southerner who has spent a lot of time in Australia / New Zealand where the sport is much bigger than here.

Plus League is a nostalgia sport with me in that those in the standing areas in the north are me if my life had taken a different turning coming from a working class background. Which is not too dissimilar to the RL Chairmen who are self-made in the main.

It's diffifcult to put a finger on it but there some sports that you are more comfortable with, for example you would not see me at Wimbledon or the Golf wheras the players and fans of league - regional accents apart - I am more comfortable being in the company of.

Its true that with the Broncos even some of the user names people post under declare their allegance to another club. I mean what club when it used to have fan events in the dim and distant past would have people turning up dressed in pristine St Helens or Hull KR shirts 🙄

But that just highlights another problem, the Broncos never knew their target audience - Northern Ex-Pats, Transient Aussies and Kiwis, Native Southerners, Soccer fans, Rugby Union fans or just a scattergun approach aiming at the lot.. That is partly why the club is where it is.

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When the pinch comes the common people will turn out to be more intelligent than the clever ones. I certainly hope so.

George Orwell
 

 

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31 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

It's diffifcult to put a finger on it but there some sports that you are more comfortable with, for example you would not see me at Wimbledon or the Golf wheras the players and fans of league - regional accents apart - I am more comfortable being in the company of.

But that just highlights another problem, the Broncos never knew their target audience - Northern Ex-Pats, Transient Aussies and Kiwis, Native Southerners, Soccer fans, Rugby Union fans or just a scattergun approach aiming at the lot.. That is partly why the club is where it is.

Agree about which sports you like. I think there's a split between team and individual sports but beyond that who knows. I think I have said before that I was "given" football as my sport by my dad (and his team Reading FC) but "chose" RL because I think its an exciting spectacle (mostly!) The history of the game is interesting but maybe that's something we need to leave behind. The north of today is hardly the same of that in Wigan Pier or This Sporting Life. Does the old working class image appeal in Rochdale, yet alone Reading?

Agree also on your second point. In recent years I think its basically been 'hope for the best'.

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2 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

But that just highlights another problem, the Broncos never knew their target audience - Northern Ex-Pats, Transient Aussies and Kiwis, Native Southerners, Soccer fans, Rugby Union fans or just a scattergun approach aiming at the lot.. That is partly why the club is where it is.

In the case of London Broncos,perhaps of all rugby league clubs,the more pressing question should be asked of the lapsed fans as to why they no longer bother.

In soccer,they support the same club,' till they die',and that support has followed on through generations,and great grandparents took the grandparents,who took the children who took their children.

Getting the children involved is the answer,I believe.

Their is no connection between the rugby league clubs and the supporters.As Broncos fans have discovered there just isn't any communication or even a smidgen of interest shown to the diehards.

People can,and do,go elsewhere.

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     No reserves,but resilience,persistence and determination are omnipotent.                       

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9 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Compared to Ealing, it's not a million miles off. It's even got indoor toilets!

Whatever you say about Ealing Trailfinders everything there is new, shiny and clean.  Many stadiums look like they have seen better days.

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1 hour ago, Angelic Cynic said:

 

In soccer,they support the same club,' till they die',and that support has followed on through generations,and great grandparents took the grandparents,who took the children who took their children.

 

For some soccer clubs that’s true but not all by a long way. 

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19 hours ago, Angelic Cynic said:

In the case of London Broncos,perhaps of all rugby league clubs,the more pressing question should be asked of the lapsed fans as to why they no longer bother.

In soccer,they support the same club,' till they die',and that support has followed on through generations,and great grandparents took the grandparents,who took the children who took their children.

Getting the children involved is the answer,I believe.

Their is no connection between the rugby league clubs and the supporters.As Broncos fans have discovered there just isn't any communication or even a smidgen of interest shown to the diehards.

People can,and do,go elsewhere.

Rugby league is quite unique though in that it is largely entrenched in pit towns. This is according to Tony Collins on his RL podcast, adding that football doesn’t have a connection to the pits (although I dispute his ascertain somewhat in that three Scottish managerial giants Bill Shankly, Matt Busby and Jock Stein (for example) who transformed Liverpool, Manchester United and Celtic all worked down the pits in Scotland). 

With the end of the pits, and the affiliated community centres in these areas, RL maybe doesn’t have the same fan base that it could once rely on. Sport is tied in with the community, and if the community changes it will impact the sport. I’m coming from a totally outside view on this but I’ve seen it mentioned numerous times on here that the bus loads who went to Challenge Cup finals in the past doesn’t happen today anywhere near like it once did. 

From a football perspective, the large clubs (or any Premier League club) don’t rely on the communities they are based in (I say this as a Liverpool fan living a few hundred miles away in Ireland). So it’s really only the smaller football clubs that would be similarly reliant on their local community as rugby league clubs. The media profile of football as well as high participation levels means those smaller clubs get an extra leg up in their communities that RL clubs cannot call upon, so that could be why support in lower league football has remained strong in comparison. A Harry Kane helps a Whitby Town FC, as individuals help grow a sport as kids want to emulate them, buy boots, go to see games etc.

The profile of RL in London is pretty much non existent, and with there also not being much of a presence of RL being played in fields/parks among kids in London then growing a club there is nigh on impossible. Without developing significant roots in the game in London Hughes is throwing money away.

Edited by DC77
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Danny Ward interview with Brian Carney

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-league/12352598/super-league-off-the-cuff

Some nuggets there about

  • Planning for the future
  • Moving Grounds

 

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When the pinch comes the common people will turn out to be more intelligent than the clever ones. I certainly hope so.

George Orwell
 

 

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2 hours ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

Danny Ward interview with Brian Carney

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/rugby-league/12352598/super-league-off-the-cuff

Some nuggets there about

  • Planning for the future
  • Moving Grounds

 

Looks interesting. 

Unfortunately it is geoblocked again, so you can probably watch it in England, but nowhere else. 

Sometimes it feels like the powers that be don't really want this sport to thrive or expand!

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On 07/07/2021 at 09:48, Man of Kent said:

Well, given Broncos' gates have dropped to tenth-tier football levels at Ealing, might it not be an idea to move to a ground with proper facilities (assuming Hughes will foot the bill)?

Its an idea absolutely.. it would also be an idea to move to a park pitch near Brentford as that was a place they had some good gates.. so then those park pitch crowds will automatically go up. 

IMHO the biggest problem with London, as it has been for a long time, is that they do not engage with the fanbase or potential fan base.. even when i was in London they didnt do this properly and didnt engage properly with the amateur clubs. IF they really want to solve some of the problems they actually have to find out what the problem is. Falling crowds is not the problem it is the symptom.. what is the underlying issue? Maybe it is the ground but maybe it is also the area and where it is (does Wimbledon fix this? i would say probably not), maybe it is KO times, maybe its something to do with the club itself, maybe its the fact no one knows when you are playing etc etc etc.. They have to find the problem and fix it otherwise we will be going round and round and round and round like this ad infinitum, or at least until David Hughes cant be bothered anymore and just gives up... and a new owner with money is only going to be able to do something about it if they then look at the issue, if they do not then we are back in the loop again.

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