Wigan...an analysis

[GUBRATS]

18 minutes ago, The storm said:

I'm a widnes fan lol

I was just editing it when my phone rang 

[Dunbar]

One of the most memorable early Super League games was almost 23 years ago to the day when Leeds went to Central Park on the 21st of August 1998 and came away with a memorable 15-8 win.  The video below shows a vibrant and pretty full Central Park.

Today, Leeds came to Wigan and according to the game thread it was a poor game and Wigan were awful (I don't disagree).

All the talk is of Wigan crowds being through the floor but what is interesting is that there were just 1,400 more fans at Central Park that night than at the game this evening.  I still think Wigan is a rugby town and some success on the pitch with perhaps a new coach and a new style will bring those fans back.

 

[M j M]

11 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

One of the most memorable early Super League games was almost 23 years ago to the day when Leeds went to Central Park on the 21st of August 1998 and came away with a memorable 15-8 win.  The video below shows a vibrant and pretty full Central Park.

Today, Leeds came to Wigan and according to the game thread it was a poor game and Wigan were awful (I don't disagree).

All the talk is of Wigan crowds being through the floor but what is interesting is that there were just 1,400 more fans at Central Park that night than at the game this evening.  I still think Wigan is a rugby town and some success on the pitch with perhaps a new coach and a new style will bring those fans back.

 

To be vaguely fair if you're going to take one of the most brutal and memorable Super League games of all time most other games will come up short in comparison.

[Dunbar]

5 minutes ago, M j M said:

To be vaguely fair if you're going to take one of the most brutal and memorable Super League games of all time most other games will come up short in comparison.

That was kind of my point. One of the best and one average one (after two defeats) and the crowds are not a million miles apart.  

[BrisbaneRhino]

SL needs a shakeup, and a major one. But this is not and never will be a competition of equals. There are some clubs that are simply bigger than others. If they die they cannot be replaced except by a smaller team.  The Bulls were financially mismanaged etc etc etc but the loss to the game as a whole as a result of their complete collapse has been enormous.

If any of the bigger clubs go (not necessarily completely but diminish forever) SL will contract as well, and the sport as a whole with it. Wigan are the biggest name in the sport. If Wigan diminish, so will the sport. 

I personally worry for the sport as a whole because I think the game seems to have lost all touch with the idea of it being an entertainment, and all the negativity makes a slow decline feel inevitable.  Its not just a SL thing. A lot of NRL games are boring one-sided or repetitive low-risk games.  Its not just due to COVID or new rules - its been getting worse for a number of years caused by increases in player size and fitness combined with the introduction of wrestling and the obsession with 'controlling the ruck'. You've got more chance of seeing a unicorn than a long range winger's try in RL. 

I know people immediately carped about Pearson's comments the other day, but as a club owner he's pointing out the obvious need for more money in the game and the simple, basic fact that where we're at now is unsustainable. So grow or die.

We need stars, we need the game to be more appealing to the casual viewer and sponsors, and we need everyone to pull together to help the sport grow. There are only two questions that matter. Is there a way to turn the sport around? And if so, is the sport capable of implementing those changes?

[Man of Kent]

10 hours ago, Dunbar said:

That was kind of my point. One of the best and one average one (after two defeats) and the crowds are not a million miles apart.  

14,000 empty seats look worse, I suppose.

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, Man of Kent said:

14,000 empty seats look worse, I suppose.

Indeed, the difference between last night and the 1998 game at Central Park could have been 14,000 rather than 1,400 the way it came across on tv.

[redjonn]

Whilst their are issues to be addressed for the sport I do think the performances on the field are impacted by the ridiculous fixture pileup.

The number of games played in short number of weeks is causing players to be missing through injury and those able to play you can see are more tired than normal.  Its been like an elongated Easter fixture congestion.

It os no surprise than the standard on the park looks even worse than normal, especially as teams are playing lots of youngsters. Great for their development not so good for the overall standard of play.

Surely it also impacts attendance too, not just the resulted overall standard of play but also the hands in pockets to pay or the mid week or early week days games are played. 

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

14,000 empty seats look worse, I suppose.

Were there? I'm afraid I was watching what was laughably called "The Game". Think you got the better deal.

[Man of Kent]

5 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Were there? I'm afraid I was watching what was laughably called "The Game". Think you got the better deal.

Yep. 11k in a 25k ground. Added to the general feeling of crappiness.  

[Chrispmartha]

42 minutes ago, redjonn said:

Whilst their are issues to be addressed for the sport I do think the performances on the field are impacted by the ridiculous fixture pileup.

The number of games played in short number of weeks is causing players to be missing through injury and those able to play you can see are more tired than normal.  Its been like an elongated Easter fixture congestion.

It os no surprise than the standard on the park looks even worse than normal, especially as teams are playing lots of youngsters. Great for their development not so good for the overall standard of play.

Surely it also impacts attendance too, not just the resulted overall standard of play but also the hands in pockets to pay or the mid week or early week days games are played. 

Totally agree

 

look at the sides last night, neither side had anything like a first choice team out, it’s not surprising quality suffers.

Wigan didn’t have a hooker and Leeds had a hooker at half partnering a guy thats playing on one leg!

The the teams last night have played the most games this season, coinicidence?

[The storm]

Two leagues 

 

16 teams in super league 1

16 teams in the championship 

Relegation and promotion every 5 years 

Each Club playing each other home and away 

A development league of 12 clubs as the 3rd tier 

A re structured and planned international scheduled featuring the GB lions 

Sky money to go equally to all 32 teams - say £600,000 each 

 

No salary cap 

Clubs need to develop their own revenue streams 

I'd even sack sky and find a better platform 

 

[JohnM]

6 minutes ago, The storm said:

Two leagues 

 

16 teams in super league 1

16 teams in the championship 

Relegation and promotion every 5 years 

Each Club playing each other home and away 

A development league of 12 clubs as the 3rd tier 

A re structured and planned international scheduled featuring the GB lions 

Sky money to go equally to all 32 teams - say £600,000 each 

 

No salary cap 

Clubs need to develop their own revenue streams 

I'd even sack sky and find a better platform 

"I'd even sack sky and find a better platform "

Before or after you walk on Water?

[Tonka]

The bottom line is Wigan don't have enough international class players and the coach isn't getting the best out of what he does have.  Of those you could say are international class:

Bateman - not on form

Farrell - trying hard but him and Bateman a lightweight pairing, especially with no other international class players in the pack

Gildart - not on form, looks lightweight and unable to make an impact

Leuluai - past his best, realistically 

Hardaker - one of the better players but no more than a fringe international now

All of the others are either still developing, or will just never be, top drawer players.

[EastLondonMike]

One of Shaun Wanes greatest abilities was getting the best out of his players. He made very average players look good.

[snoopdog]

There's a constant question of "how do we make the game more attractive for Sky TV? In my opinion they are the cause of the sports demise, no existing advertising of games , shifting games to a Wednesday and Thursday night , dreadful presentation , awful commentary , you would think they are deliberately trying to devalue our great game!!

[Wigan Riversider]

1 hour ago, The storm said:

Two leagues 

 

16 teams in super league 1

16 teams in the championship 

Relegation and promotion every 5 years 

Each Club playing each other home and away 

A development league of 12 clubs as the 3rd tier 

A re structured and planned international scheduled featuring the GB lions 

Sky money to go equally to all 32 teams - say £600,000 each 

 

No salary cap 

Clubs need to develop their own revenue streams 

I'd even sack sky and find a better platform 

 

Spot on about the salary cap

[Tonka]

25 minutes ago, EastLondonMike said:

One of Shaun Wanes greatest abilities was getting the best out of his players. He made very average players look good.

He did.  But not great.

[GUBRATS]

10 hours ago, BrisbaneRhino said:

SL needs a shakeup, and a major one. But this is not and never will be a competition of equals. There are some clubs that are simply bigger than others. If they die they cannot be replaced except by a smaller team.  The Bulls were financially mismanaged etc etc etc but the loss to the game as a whole as a result of their complete collapse has been enormous.

If any of the bigger clubs go (not necessarily completely but diminish forever) SL will contract as well, and the sport as a whole with it. Wigan are the biggest name in the sport. If Wigan diminish, so will the sport. 

I personally worry for the sport as a whole because I think the game seems to have lost all touch with the idea of it being an entertainment, and all the negativity makes a slow decline feel inevitable.  Its not just a SL thing. A lot of NRL games are boring one-sided or repetitive low-risk games.  Its not just due to COVID or new rules - its been getting worse for a number of years caused by increases in player size and fitness combined with the introduction of wrestling and the obsession with 'controlling the ruck'. You've got more chance of seeing a unicorn than a long range winger's try in RL. 

I know people immediately carped about Pearson's comments the other day, but as a club owner he's pointing out the obvious need for more money in the game and the simple, basic fact that where we're at now is unsustainable. So grow or die.

We need stars, we need the game to be more appealing to the casual viewer and sponsors, and we need everyone to pull together to help the sport grow. There are only two questions that matter. Is there a way to turn the sport around? And if so, is the sport capable of implementing those changes?

Has Mr Pearson indicated what he'd spend the money on ?

[Davo5]

2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Exactly, these oversized stadiums are actually poison for the tv product. If Salford get into a 6 k ground it will actually attract more people because it won´t feel so awful and sky can start showing their games again. 

Oversized stadiums,the biggest is 25,000 hardly the Nou Camp.

If Salford move into Moor Lane it will be an awful look for Superleague,it’s basically a non league football ground albeit a neat one and just says small time.

[Padge]

22 hours ago, Dunbar said:

One of the most memorable early Super League games was almost 23 years ago to the day when Leeds went to Central Park on the 21st of August 1998 and came away with a memorable 15-8 win.  The video below shows a vibrant and pretty full Central Park.

Today, Leeds came to Wigan and according to the game thread it was a poor game and Wigan were awful (I don't disagree).

All the talk is of Wigan crowds being through the floor but what is interesting is that there were just 1,400 more fans at Central Park that night than at the game this evening.  I still think Wigan is a rugby town and some success on the pitch with perhaps a new coach and a new style will bring those fans back.

 

Central Park's largest attendance was 47,747. In 1998, for safety reasons the capacity was reduced to around 16,000. Central Park was nowhere near full for that game.

[Padge]

2 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Exactly, these oversized stadiums are actually poison for the tv product. If Salford get into a 6 k ground it will actually attract more people because it won´t feel so awful and sky can start showing their games again. 

You don't look to shrink the stadium you look to fill it.

We have a stupid obsession with this anyway, look at the size of the stadiums some Aussie clubs play in and how empty they are, cricket grounds here are very often empty for 'big' matches.

[Dave T]

Just now, Padge said:

You don't look to shrink the stadium you look to fill it.

We have a stupid obsession with this anyway, look at the size of the stadiums some Aussie clubs play in and how empty they are, cricket grounds here are very often empty for 'big' matches.

I do feel we are super-obsessed. We should have an interest for our own benefit I. E. More fans mean we are generally healthier, but this obsession over what other people think is a bit of a red herring imho. 

People are not stupid, they know what RL is, they know it is a modest sized sport with top teams centred around the North of England. Outsiders are nowhere near as sneering about RL as RL fans are. 

I think Wigan have some work to do on revitalising their crowds, but I've been in there with 14k and the atmosphere has been electric, even with 10k empty seats. With 25k in I don't think there are many better grounds. 

[Man of Kent]

27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I do feel we are super-obsessed. We should have an interest for our own benefit I. E. More fans mean we are generally healthier, but this obsession over what other people think is a bit of a red herring imho. 

People are not stupid, they know what RL is, they know it is a modest sized sport with top teams centred around the North of England. Outsiders are nowhere near as sneering about RL as RL fans are. 

I think Wigan have some work to do on revitalising their crowds, but I've been in there with 14k and the atmosphere has been electric, even with 10k empty seats. With 25k in I don't think there are many better grounds. 

True but Wigan don’t get 25k. They are likely to average below 10k this year (unrestricted crowds) and have lost around 5000 fans in the last ten years.

Maybe the fact it’s less than half-empty is itself a contributing factor in the declining crowds, a kind of vicious cycle?

[graveyard johnny]

when wigan traded central park for soul less stadium it was about the same time i traded my vinyl records for cds - apparently it was the way forward - luckily i can still get some of my vinyl back