Jump to content

Wigan...an analysis


JohnM
 Share

Recommended Posts

49 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Oversized stadiums,the biggest is 25,000 hardly the Nou Camp.

If Salford move into Moor Lane it will be an awful look for Superleague,it’s basically a non league football ground albeit a neat one and just says small time.

Yep and it gets an average of 11,000 . So less than 50 % capacity and Wigan don´t even fill the hard cam. If it´s got 4000 in and Moor Lane is bouncing with a great atmosphere it actually means sky can show salford game. Plus, a smaller stadium makes it easier to attract people because you can create an atmosphere. Call it a paradox but Hull KR with only 6000 looked better than Wigan last night. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites


27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I do feel we are super-obsessed. We should have an interest for our own benefit I. E. More fans mean we are generally healthier, but this obsession over what other people think is a bit of a red herring imho. 

People are not stupid, they know what RL is, they know it is a modest sized sport with top teams centred around the North of England. Outsiders are nowhere near as sneering about RL as RL fans are. 

I think Wigan have some work to do on revitalising their crowds, but I've been in there with 14k and the atmosphere has been electric, even with 10k empty seats. With 25k in I don't think there are many better grounds. 

True but Wigan don’t get 25k. They are likely to average below 10k this year (unrestricted crowds) and have lost around 5000 fans in the last ten years.

Maybe the fact it’s less than half-empty is itself a contributing factor in the declining crowds, a kind of vicious cycle?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

when wigan traded central park for soul less stadium it was about the same time i traded my vinyl records for cds - apparently it was the way forward - luckily i can still get some of my vinyl back 

  • Thanks 1

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yep and it gets an average of 11,000 . So less than 50 % capacity and Wigan don´t even fill the hard cam. If it´s got 4000 in and Moor Lane is bouncing with a great atmosphere it actually means sky can show salford game. Plus, a smaller stadium makes it easier to attract people because you can create an atmosphere. Call it a paradox but Hull KR with only 6000 looked better than Wigan last night. 

So your answer to dwindling crowds is for teams to play in smaller stadiums?Why would Sky be more willing to show Salford playing in a bus shelter,it hardly looks like a major sport no matter how many are in attendance.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

True but Wigan don’t get 25k. They are likely to average below 10k this year (unrestricted crowds) and have lost around 5000 fans in the last ten years.

Maybe the fact it’s less than half-empty is itself a contributing factor in the declining crowds, a kind of vicious cycle?

As I say, I think Wigan have work to do (as have others but this is a Wigan thread) - it was only recently they were getting high-teens or even 20k for games against Wire and Leeds etc. 

But it is possible to get a good atmosphere even with 10 to 12k in there, again it is up to Wigan to get that across to fans in the ground and at home. 

Look at the Wire game on Sky (was it v Leeds) - pretty much only half full, but those 8k in were enjoying themselves and the cameras picked that up. 

A little like at Wembley, we need to be careful not to go over criticising what are ultimately decent crowds. 

There is something in how it looks and sounds, but let's not overstate it. We have a real tendency to overstate any challenge imho. The outcome of this is an insecurity that leads to structure change after structure change, looking for the silver bullet. 

We need Cooler heads. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think Wigan have some work to do on revitalising their crowds, but I've been in there with 14k and the atmosphere has been electric, even with 10k empty seats. With 25k in I don't think there are many better grounds. 

Absolutely, the DW really isn't soulless. It is four or five thousand too large for Wigan but the design really keeps the noise in and it can be an excellent atmosphere at times, at least that's my experience.

It is really starting to show its age mind you; it had been a couple of years since I'd been there before last night and, presumably in part due to the soccer club's problems was distinctly shabby looking in places.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, M j M said:

Absolutely, the DW really isn't soulless. It is four or five thousand too large for Wigan but the design really keeps the noise in and it can be an excellent atmosphere at times, at least that's my experience.

It is really starting to show its age mind you; it had been a couple of years since I'd been there before last night and, presumably in part due to the soccer club's problems was distinctly shabby looking in places.

concrete terracing and iron lean on bars last a lot longer than plastic seats whatever colour they may have been made 

  • Confused 1

did the bloke who invented the phrase "one hit wonder" invent anything else?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, graveyard johnny said:

concrete terracing and iron lean on bars last a lot longer than plastic seats whatever colour they may have been made 

And clogs last longer than shoes but we don't all still wear them.

  • Like 2
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, graveyard johnny said:

concrete terracing and iron lean on bars last a lot longer than plastic seats whatever colour they may have been made 

The state of the iron lean on bars at Central Park was the major reason for the dramatic cut in capacity at CP. 

They look robust with a nice coat of paint covering the rust but underneath they are as weak as hell.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com

Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

So your answer to dwindling crowds is for teams to play in smaller stadiums?Why would Sky be more willing to show Salford playing in a bus shelter,it hardly looks like a major sport no matter how many are in attendance.

Did I not say that a smaller stadium would actually increase crowds? I think I did.  5k is probably a touch too small for Salford 6k would be ideal but yes sky will show high capacity games over low capacity games. 

Thought experiement, would it be easier for Giants to attract crowds in a snug 10k stadium than their current box?

 

Edited by ShropshireBull
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Padge said:

You don't look to shrink the stadium you look to fill it.

We have a stupid obsession with this anyway, look at the size of the stadiums some Aussie clubs play in and how empty they are, cricket grounds here are very often empty for 'big' matches.

Yes I've thought that looking at some of those NRL games 

 Soon we will be dancing the fandango
FROM 2004,TO DO WHAT THIS CLUB HAS DONE,IF THATS NOT GREATNESSTHEN i DONT KNOW WHAT IS.

JAMIE PEACOCK

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Had the pleasure of being at both Tuesday and Wednesday night games at the DW this week, only 300 difference on the declared crowds, although felt more.

Atmosphere couldn't have been more different, the atmosphere was great Tuesday, despite the rather dire 0-0 90 minutes that unfolded, Wednesday night it was awful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, snoopdog said:

There's a constant question of "how do we make the game more attractive for Sky TV? In my opinion they are the cause of the sports demise, no existing advertising of games , shifting games to a Wednesday and Thursday night , dreadful presentation , awful commentary , you would think they are deliberately trying to devalue our great game!!

maybe but surely SL and the RFL should be talking to them about the Sky product/ presentation.

I don't think the NFL would put up with something poor... unless of course SL thinks its ok.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

There is something in how it looks and sounds, but let's not overstate it. We have a real tendency to overstate any challenge imho. The outcome of this is an insecurity that leads to structure change after structure change, looking for the silver bullet. 

We need Cooler heads. 

I might have agreed with you a few months ago but there is a definite stench in the air with RL at the moment. Wigan - with all their proud history yet struggling on and off the field - kind of embody it.

Crowds are down, ratings are down (and TV money), quality/entertainment is down. We need to recognise the game is in the doldrums at present albeit with some important mitigating factors beyond its control. 

Hopefully the sport takes the opportunity to work together to improve matters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I might have agreed with you a few months ago but there is a definite stench in the air with RL at the moment. Wigan - with all their proud history yet struggling on and off the field - kind of embody it.

Crowds are down, ratings are down (and TV money), quality/entertainment is down. We need to recognise the game is in the doldrums at present albeit with some important mitigating factors beyond its control. 

Hopefully the sport takes the opportunity to work together to improve matters.

I think people are rather too quick to follow this line that the sport is rubbish at the moment. I'm enjoying most games I watch tbh. 

I do think sometimes maybe people who are not enjoying it need to step away for a bit. I've done it before, it helps. 

When you say ratings are down, what is your reference point? 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

I might have agreed with you a few months ago but there is a definite stench in the air with RL at the moment. Wigan - with all their proud history yet struggling on and off the field - kind of embody it.

Crowds are down, ratings are down (and TV money), quality/entertainment is down. We need to recognise the game is in the doldrums at present albeit with some important mitigating factors beyond its control. 

Hopefully the sport takes the opportunity to work together to improve matters.

Crowds are down because people put their health above going to games.

What money is down?

SOME quality and entertainment is down.

  • Thanks 1

People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do.

Isaac Asimov

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 23/08/2021 at 14:49, CiderWire said:

And yet...................United, under Ferguson were going nowhere fast until a particularly talented group of youngsters came up via their youth development program around, oooooh 1992 if I recall correctly. The rest, as they say.........................................

Which provides a degree of irony bearing in mind the subject of debate being one of imported goods over home grown, slowly matured, carefully nurtured, stars in the making!

It's nice to look back with fond memories and think how lucky we were at times to see these lads (and lasses) when they took their first nervous steps onto the pitch.

You do realise Utd won a fair few trophys including a european trophy and the premier league before the class of 92 were on the scene?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, shrek said:

Had the pleasure of being at both Tuesday and Wednesday night games at the DW this week, only 300 difference on the declared crowds, although felt more.

Atmosphere couldn't have been more different, the atmosphere was great Tuesday, despite the rather dire 0-0 90 minutes that unfolded, Wednesday night it was awful.

Tuesday was against their bitter rivals at there is an air of optomism surrounding the team following last seasons mess and run in escape from relegation.

Wednesday was a set of fans who are in crisis with their team, the manager looks cluless to sort things out and theres clearly an issue with maybe? Agents pushing the young talent to other clubs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I think people are rather too quick to follow this line that the sport is rubbish at the moment. I'm enjoying most games I watch tbh. 

I do think sometimes maybe people who are not enjoying it need to step away for a bit. I've done it before, it helps. 

When you say ratings are down, what is your reference point? 

Chatter on podcasts. Haven’t seen any figures (we only tend to see them when they have something to shout about).

Thanks for the advice but I’m not walking away!

By the way, I like your anti doom-mongering but it’s beginning to come across as a little bit complacent. The sport is clearly struggling in all aspects and everyone knows it - from top to bottom - we don’t have to pretend otherwise. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whatever the state of Wigan, I'm not sure anyone should be listening to a poster whose main involvement in rugby league is cheerleading for a dying London Broncos to pump money into his favoured soccer club.

"Just as we had been Cathars, we were treizistes, men apart."

Jean Roque, Calendrier-revue du Racing-Club Albigeois, 1958-1959

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Chatter on podcasts. Haven’t seen any figures (we only tend to see them when they have something to shout about).

Thanks for the advice but I’m not walking away!

By the way, I like your anti doom-mongering but it’s beginning to come across as a little bit complacent. The sport is clearly struggling in all aspects and everyone knows it - from top to bottom - we don’t have to pretend otherwise. 

You'll know from my posts that there is plenty I am critical of, but I just think there needs to be an element of pragmatism. 

I do believe there is a risk of talking ourselves into a crisis, and your last line is a good example. It is over the top. 

The steadfast refusal to enjoy anything about the game is draining.

It's possible to worry about lower crowds without thinking the game is dying. 

It's possible to be annoyed with a ban without everything being a farce. 

My point about people taking a break from the game is a serious one, some people appear to be martyrs, if the product is as bad as they tell us (and anyone who will listen, every single day), then why not spend time doing something they enjoy? As per the Tim Butcher article, some people are more harmful than the enemies of the game. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You'll know from my posts that there is plenty I am critical of, but I just think there needs to be an element of pragmatism. 

I do believe there is a risk of talking ourselves into a crisis, and your last line is a good example. It is over the top. 

The steadfast refusal to enjoy anything about the game is draining.

It's possible to worry about lower crowds without thinking the game is dying. 

It's possible to be annoyed with a ban without everything being a farce. 

My point about people taking a break from the game is a serious one, some people appear to be martyrs, if the product is as bad as they tell us (and anyone who will listen, every single day), then why not spend time doing something they enjoy? As per the Tim Butcher article, some people are more harmful than the enemies of the game. 

Spot on

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, yipyee said:

Tuesday was against their bitter rivals at there is an air of optomism surrounding the team following last seasons mess and run in escape from relegation.

Wednesday was a set of fans who are in crisis with their team, the manager looks cluless to sort things out and theres clearly an issue with maybe? Agents pushing the young talent to other clubs.

Tuesday was also two reserve teams in a cup neither have a cat in hells chance of winning and will sooner or later be knocked out by someone elses reserves.

Wednesday was between two giants of the game towards the business end of the season with both still in the hunt for the play-offs.  Also striking that it was being "marketed" as a heritage round, I work in and around Wigan all day every day, had no idea until I get in the ground.

Lams getting the blame and Covids providing plenty of excuses, but Wigan have got major issues off the field well beyond both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.



×
×
  • Create New...