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Thu 23 Sept: Wigan Warriors v Leeds Rhinos KO 19:45 (TV)


Who will win?  

51 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will win?

    • Wigan Warriors
      23
    • Leeds Rhinos
      28

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  • Poll closed on 23/09/21 at 19:15

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1 minute ago, Cheshire Setter said:

I'm not so sure. You only have to watch a few big games from the 2000s on YouTube to see the difference in excitement. Admittedly, the defences weren't as structured, but I don't think that's the weapon required to attract new fans. We don't have the power of propaganda to boost our presence in the limelight, unlike certain other sports.

I think that's a bit of rose tinted glasses tbh mate

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5 minutes ago, Cheshire Setter said:

I know people get labelled as Nay-sayers, but I just can't see how the lack of quality attacking rugby from the top teams in the last five years can be ignored. How do you sell such a declining product to new fans? In the mid-2000s the overall gameday experience may have been worse due to poor stadia etc, but the atmosphere and excitement was another level - especially at the big games. This is just embarrassing.

Stands by for incoming.

I think there's an element of the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia there. I remember some utterly dour games in the era you mention, and conversely I've watched a few games this season that are right up there with any games I've ever watched. 

That said, on the whole the game does seem to be getting more and more attritional, and that's not what the average fan wants to watch. Certainly not the new fans that we are trying to attract. I don't have any answers but it's something that the powers that be should be having a look at.

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2 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I imagined this was being said by Darth Vader to Peter Cushing in Star Wars.

If only he'd focussed on safe construction standards instead of distracting himself with RL banter, he'd have beaten the rebellion.

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16 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

I'm probably not the biggest Wigan fan, but even I feel a bit sad to see Jackson Hastings hitting the ball up, one-out, with a few hundred hardy souls watching on.

As a Red, it is despairing to see Jackson diminish so much. Gone is the wild free spirit that got us to the Grand Final two years ago. 

What has Wigan done to him and poor Biddy? 

And I swear over success has melted the average Wiganer. I mean 7,000 is light is it not?

Some of my Big United fans used to say when they were winning everything, they started only to feel emotional when they lost. They said that it was a shock, then a liberation to be ###### under Moyes et al and now they really appreciate a modicum of success under Ole. Maybe Wigan need a renovation like this.

Hastings needs to be in Aus now. Wigan will just re group and will be back. 

Edited by idrewthehaggis
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24 minutes ago, Nate90 said:

Simply not good enough this season. The attack has been so predictable. Roll on next year. Good luck to the other teams in the play offs.  It would be nice to see a different club with the trophy this year.

I bet it would

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6 minutes ago, MZH said:

What I'm saying is that I don't think wholesale changes are required. Whether the club can get the tweaks right is another question.

We are a complete shambles,no props,no hooker,no centres,no standoff,a fullback who wants to leave & a scrum half who’s confidence is shot.

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1 minute ago, Davo5 said:

We are a complete shambles,no props,no hooker,no centres,no standoff,a fullback who wants to leave & a scrum half who’s confidence is shot.

I know it's disappointing to see your season end so limply, but you really aren't as bad as you think. The right coach will get a tune out of that lot.

I've supported Hull for 25 years. I know a shambles when I see one!

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one reason for wigans lack of trys, harry smith, i feel for him he had looked so good last season but has cost wigan so many games this season it's ridiculous.

Edited by my missus

Through the fish-eyed lens of tear stained eyes
I can barely define the shape of this moment in time

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So, at the end of the season for Wigan there are more than a few frustrations. But for me perhaps the most frustrating is Harry Smith. 

Adrian Lam was one of the best scrum halves of his generation but he hasn't improved Smith's game at all.  He passes so far before the line, he never digs into the defence and commit any defenders... the drift defence nullifies the Wigan shift so easily because the halves never square up the defence.  

Smith is a talented player (as is Hastings) and so this must be the attacking shapes and structures coached into them.

I wish Lam all the best but it is a good time to reset.

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"The history of the world is the history of the triumph of the heartless over the mindless." — Sir Humphrey Appleby.

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2 minutes ago, MZH said:

I know it's disappointing to see your season end so limply, but you really aren't as bad as you think. The right coach will get a tune out of that lot.

I've supported Hull for 25 years. I know a shambles when I see one!

We really are.

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31 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Wigan force you to play a certain way, its attritional and physical, moreso than any other team. On top of being play off rugby too its unsurprising the game was like that.

This is true, it was obviously Agars game plan that’s why we had a big bench. The olan will have been take the chances (Wigan are a very good defensive side) and then defend the lead. Mind you we were so poor in attack it nearly backfired 

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Criticism of Smith is way off. Our poor attack isn't purely down to him. It was poor when it was Leuluai and Hastings in the halves. It was poor when it was Smith and Leuluai in the halves. It was poor when it was Smith and Hastings in the halves. If it was down to Smith Wigan would have done better when Leuluai partnered Hastings but we didn't. In fact Smith finished the season with 14 try assists and Leuluai with 0. There's more to a rugby league attacking game than just halfback does something good and try is scored. You need attacking shape, you need a gameplan, you need to give the playmakers the best opportunity to make things happen. That's where Wigan have been lacking. Smith didn't play much last season but our attack was still poor. It was so overly reliant on Bevan French to create something and cause problems. All we've seen this year is what happens when you take French out of the side. The problems we creeping up on us well before this year and are not the fault of a 21 year old halfback, regardless of whether he'll go on to make it as a Super League player or not.

The front row is still Wigan's biggest weakness, as is our one dimensional play at dummy half. We make pretty much no dominant carries down the middle - so we have few attacking opportunities against defences that aren't set or that have late retreating defenders. So many points are scored in this game simply through players exploiting things like that but they don't happen out of nowhere. How often do you see the half time analysis from Jon Wells picking apart a try and highlighting one player retreating late from a tackle and causing the entire defensive line to be out of position. Stuff like that comes from carries that defenders struggle to control. That so rarely happens with this Wigan team. There's no threat from a direct runner at dummy half so defenders know the ball is going wide from the ruck. I'm not going to be too critical of Powell but he's a decent hooker - nothing more, nothing less. If you have a quality hooker you can have them play 80 minutes and they'll have a good all-round game. Most teams don't, so they have two decent hookers and between them they'll be good enough. For some reason Wigan are just obsessed with playing just one hooker for as long as possible and ignoring his limitations.

Wigan's problems can be fixed, but the fact is there are problems that need fixing and generally you have to invest to get the changes you want. Wigan are cutting costs. More quality players are leaving this season like in previous seasons and it looks like they aren't going to be replaced with players of the same calibre. So what are the chances of Wigan being able to improve the squad by bringing in weaker players and spending less money? I'd say very slim.

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19 minutes ago, Loiner said:

If Wigan are to get any better next season they need to get shut of that Harry Smith, he's absolutely dog s**t. Not worth the money he's getting.

Leeds were one lucky try better than Wigan. Massive problems if Leeds fans looked in the mirror rather than at Wigan. 

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4 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

Criticism of Smith is way off. Our poor attack isn't purely down to him.

It was poor when it was Leuluai and Hastings in the halves.

It was poor when it was Smith and Leuluai in the halves.

It was poor when it was Smith and Hastings in the halves. If it was down to Smith Wigan would have done better when Leuluai partnered Hastings but we didn't.

In fact Smith finished the season with 14 try assists and Leuluai with 0.

There's more to a rugby league attacking game than just halfback does something good and try is scored.

You need attacking shape, you need a gameplan, you need to give the playmakers the best opportunity to make things happen.

That's where Wigan have been lacking. Smith didn't play much last season but our attack was still poor. It was so overly reliant on Bevan French to create something and cause problems.

All we've seen this year is what happens when you take French out of the side.

The problems we creeping up on us well before this year and are not the fault of a 21 year old halfback, regardless of whether he'll go on to make it as a Super League player or not.

The front row is still Wigan's biggest weakness, as is our one dimensional play at dummy half.

We make pretty much no dominant carries down the middle - so we have few attacking opportunities against defences that aren't set or that have late retreating defenders.

So many points are scored in this game simply through players exploiting things like that but they don't happen out of nowhere.

How often do you see the half time analysis from Jon Wells picking apart a try and highlighting one player retreating late from a tackle and causing the entire defensive line to be out of position.

Stuff like that comes from carries that defenders struggle to control. That so rarely happens with this Wigan team.

There's no threat from a direct runner at dummy half so defenders know the ball is going wide from the ruck.

I'm not going to be too critical of Powell but he's a decent hooker - nothing more, nothing less. If you have a quality hooker you can have them play 80 minutes and they'll have a good all-round game.

Most teams don't, so they have two decent hookers and between them they'll be good enough.

For some reason Wigan are just obsessed with playing just one hooker for as long as possible and ignoring his limitations.

Wigan's problems can be fixed, but the fact is there are problems that need fixing and generally you have to invest to get the changes you want.

Wigan are cutting costs. More quality players are leaving this season like in previous seasons and it looks like they aren't going to be replaced with players of the same calibre.

So what are the chances of Wigan being able to improve the squad by bringing in weaker players and spending less money? I'd say very slim.

Really good post - just broken it up for ease of reading.

An excellent analysis that all fans should read. 

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13 minutes ago, Leeds Wire said:

Leeds were one lucky try better than Wigan. Massive problems if Leeds fans looked in the mirror rather than at Wigan. 

Leeds were still only playing with one half back, no leeds fan thinks were a GF winning side, we have however recruited very well for next year and hopefully our half back issues of this year will be behind us.

 

One thing this Leeds side has is a massive willingness to work hard for each other, that has been missing for a few years at leeds, if Leeds are as poor as you say, maybe Warrington fans should be looking in the mirror because we beat you at home and you only managed to beat us with a drop goal at Headingley 

 

😉

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