Attendances (Multiple Merged Threads)

[Mumby Magic]

1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

Just checking - if you are counting Rochdale and Oldham as central Manchester, where are you drawing the line for outer Manchester starting?

Bradford.

[sweaty craiq]

5 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Enter last 32 Draw the SL teams all away , one will lose there is your story. Games are much more unique and better for the sport than just loop fixtures. 

I would go one further, SL drawn against lower league must play away in any round. 

[Tommygilf]

16 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

Those who are thinking of group games and adding more games to the season needs to give THEIR head a wobble.

Gets rid of Loop fixtures

[Mumby Magic]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Gets rid of Loop fixtures

Completely agree with that. However it'd still be a no for me with group fixtures.

[sweaty craiq]

3 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Didnt think about that but yep, why not? 

If we are going to get the same amount at Champ grounds as SL for cup games then yep. 

Plus we need to be giving clubs like Barrow York Newcastle exposure to better teams to allow us to glimpse potential.  

York vs Leeds selling out or Newcastle getting Hull would look great. 

Imagine in the last round it was Leigh v HKR and Fev v Cats.

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

6 hours ago, Eddie said:

Would season ticket prices go up under your plan, or remain as they are? 

Go up

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Didnt think about that but yep, why not? 

If we are going to get the same amount at Champ grounds as SL for cup games then yep. 

Plus we need to be giving clubs like Barrow York Newcastle exposure to better teams to allow us to glimpse potential.  

York vs Leeds selling out or Newcastle getting Hull would look great. 

Do you honestly think York v Leeds would attract anywhere near a 8,000 crowd? 

[EggFace]

3 hours ago, ShropshireBull said:

Didnt think about that but yep, why not? 

If we are going to get the same amount at Champ grounds as SL for cup games then yep. 

Plus we need to be giving clubs like Barrow York Newcastle exposure to better teams to allow us to glimpse potential.  

York vs Leeds selling out or Newcastle getting Hull would look great. 

I agree as love watching the recent Barrow v Giants game as well Whitehaven v St.Helens and would love to see more crowds like that for them alongside York and hopefully Newcastle and Cornwall.

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:

Yes, otherwise I wouldn´t of said it. Why do you always pose your opinion as a question instead of just saying, "I don´t think York vs Leeds would get that because of X,Y, and Z?"

I don’t always, but will try to remember not to in future. 
 

Why do you think it would sell out then? York get about 2,000 for big games at the moment, I’d say doubling that for Leeds’ visit is more than generous but let’s say 4,000 home fans. I can’t see Leeds taking 4,000 to a challenge cup game at York, they only had about 5,000 home fans there for the game against Cas. 

[Adelaide Tiger]

7 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

Some shocking figures from Huddersfield and Wakefield for a big cup game. Anyone who thinks the cup should continue in the same format needs to give their head a wobble. Move to groups, with home games included in season tickets just as Super League games are. 

Cornwall have made a fantastic start.

There is nothing wrong with the straight knockout format if there are tweaks.

The suggestion that non SL teams have home advantage in the round with 16 teams is a very good start.

For me the group format has a couple of issues.  How many hone games would there be per team?  2, 3?  So season tickets would have to be increased by say £20 to £30 so clubs do not lose too much money.  Also it may lead to ‘dead’ games where clubs cannot qualify and leads to a lack of incentive to attend.
 

[Jughead]

1 minute ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

There is nothing wrong with the straight knockout format if there are tweaks.

The suggestion that non SL teams have home advantage in the round with 16 teams is a very good start.

That leaves just the quarter-final in which a SL team will play at home.  So let each season ticket holder for both home the and away teams  - and supporters from SL clubs that were knocked out in the previous round - have free access to games.  The clubs can recoup some of that money by adding for example £10 to the season ticket cost.

For semi finals each season ticket holder - from all clubs not just the competing teams - could have a discount for a ticket.

I have almost no appetite to attend games not involving my side, let alone cup games that don’t involve my side that may well be on the other side of the Pennines. I don’t think I’d be alone there. 

[Jughead]

Super League clubs are never going to vote to lose regular season games to replace them with one or two against lower league opposition, who, in the most part, aren’t as appetising from a commercial view as Super League opposition, even if that game is the second home game that season against that particular opposition. I’m not sure how it works with the Sky contract either with a huge drop in fixtures available to them under the current contract. 

I think the feelgood factor around Whitehaven and Barrow hosting Saints and Huddersfield was the scarcity of such fixtures, so I’m not sure how manufacturing the draw so that lower league opposition are always at home would go down after the first few years, once the novelty has worn off. I don’t know if you’d still get the away following a few years down the line or the buzz around the lower league club when the draw is guaranteed that they’ll get the same thing twelve months down the line. 

There’s no easy answer to this. It’s not as simple as reduced ticket prices either, the cup games are generally fairly reasonably priced. 

[Sir Kevin Sinfield]

3 hours ago, Adelaide Tiger said:

There is nothing wrong with the straight knockout format if there are tweaks.

The suggestion that non SL teams have home advantage in the round with 16 teams is a very good start.

For me the group format has a couple of issues.  How many hone games would there be per team?  2, 3?  So season tickets would have to be increased by say £20 to £30 so clubs do not lose too much money.  Also it may lead to ‘dead’ games where clubs cannot qualify and leads to a lack of incentive to attend.
 

Yes groups of 5, 2 home games per club, it’d be for each individual club to decide the price of their season tickets but adding £20 to £30 is probably about right yes. Is it perfect? No, but it’s far better than Super League clubs getting 3000 fans for cup games.

[EggFace]

7 hours ago, Eddie said:

Do you honestly think York v Leeds would attract anywhere near a 8,000 crowd? 

YES the fixutre would grow as with other places and what better having 2000/4000 at Newcastle, York, Cumbria teams then the same Saleford games and even watching 9000 at Wigan.

[RayCee]

All figures are comparing five rounds except 2019 club averages which are for the entire season. NZ hurts from home vs on the road figures. 

After Five Rounds
	Team	2022	2019	Diff
1	Brisbane	31,090	29,521	5%
2	Paramatta	18,961	18,396	3%
3	Newcastle	16,343	19,055	-14%
4	Penrith	16,225	12,474	30%
5	North Qld	14,811	13,658	8%
6	Sth Sydney	14,789	13,877	7%
7	Melbourne	14,141	14,741	-4%
8	Syd Roost	13,027	15,677	-17%
9	Canterbury	12,305	12,880	-4%
10	Gold Coast	12,244	11,085	10%
11	Canberra	11,605	14,864	-22%
12	Cronulla S	10,642	12,141	-12%
13	Manly	10,297	11,267	-9%
14	St George	10,090	9,813	3%
15	Wests	8,604	13,547	-36%
16	New Zeal	7,085	13,831	-49%
	Total	692,380	734,112	-6%
	Avg	14,425	15,294	-6%

[Tommygilf]

26 minutes ago, RayCee said:

All figures are comparing five rounds except 2019 average which is for the entire season. NZ hurts from home vs on the road figures. 

After Five Rounds
	Team	2022	2019	Diff
1	Brisbane	31,090	29,521	5%
2	Paramatta	18,961	18,396	3%
3	Newcastle	16,343	19,055	-14%
4	Penrith	16,225	12,474	30%
5	North Qld	14,811	13,658	8%
6	Sth Sydney	14,789	13,877	7%
7	Melbourne	14,141	14,741	-4%
8	Syd Roost	13,027	15,677	-17%
9	Canterbury	12,305	12,880	-4%
10	Gold Coast	12,244	11,085	10%
11	Canberra	11,605	14,864	-22%
12	Cronulla S	10,642	12,141	-12%
13	Manly	10,297	11,267	-9%
14	St George	10,090	9,813	3%
15	Wests	8,604	13,547	-36%
16	New Zeal	7,085	13,831	-49%
	Total	692,380	734,112	-6%
	Avg	14,425	15,294	-6%

Were the roosters still at the SFS in 2019 or had they moved to the SCG by then?

[RayCee]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

Were the roosters still at the SFS in 2019 or had they moved to the SCG by then?

They moved in that year. 

[The Rocket]

5 hours ago, RayCee said:

All figures are comparing five rounds except 2019 average which is for the entire season. NZ hurts from home vs on the road figures. 

After Five Rounds
	Team	2022	2019	Diff
1	Brisbane	31,090	29,521	5%
2	Paramatta	18,961	18,396	3%
3	Newcastle	16,343	19,055	-14%
4	Penrith	16,225	12,474	30%
5	North Qld	14,811	13,658	8%
6	Sth Sydney	14,789	13,877	7%
7	Melbourne	14,141	14,741	-4%
8	Syd Roost	13,027	15,677	-17%
9	Canterbury	12,305	12,880	-4%
10	Gold Coast	12,244	11,085	10%
11	Canberra	11,605	14,864	-22%
12	Cronulla S	10,642	12,141	-12%
13	Manly	10,297	11,267	-9%
14	St George	10,090	9,813	3%
15	Wests	8,604	13,547	-36%
16	New Zeal	7,085	13,831	-49%
	Total	692,380	734,112	-6%
	Avg	14,425	15,294	-6%

I think the attendance numbers are pretty good especially when you consider we`ve had several games taken to the regions and though only getting 8 - 10 000 at these games they were sell-outs due to ground capacity.

New Zealand through no fault of its` own continue to be a drag on numbers and the terrible weather in NSW ( record breaking March/April rainfall in Sydney and persistently wet in Newcastle ) for the last couple of months is no doubt affecting crowds as well. The SGC is a terrible ground to watch League at the best of times being so far from the action.

I`m pretty confident without the above factors we would have been above last years numbers.

[Mumby Magic]

The thing that alot are missing on this is that is our longest established KO competition or any competition for that matter.

It's the luck of the draw. Why change home teams about for the possibility of better attendances?

There are various ways to market games for next to nothing via social media etc.

The competition shouldn't be about "Well if ..... Get there, there should be a better atrendance" for the final. It should be near full capacity for every final. That's the RFL responsibility. Here's one, know when and where it is being played before the previous years final so you can advertise and market straight after the final.

[Jughead]

7 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

 

The competition shouldn't be about "Well if ..... Get there, there should be a better atrendance" for the final. It should be near full capacity for every final. That's the RFL responsibility. Here's one, know when and where it is being played before the previous years final so you can advertise and market straight after the final.

For most of recent history, people knew it was at Wembley on the August Bank Holiday weekend. Attendances then were still what they were. 

[redjonn]

Tinkering with the early rounds isn't going to enhance the current status or kudos in peoples mind about the Challenge Cup. It may or may not increase attendance but if it increases it will be marginal. It won't change the underlying issue.

At the end of the day the Challenge Cup has lost its place in RL fans hearts and minds, although the final still attracts as an event. Of course if you get to the final it can be a good day out event but until then a lot of RL fans have no buy-in interest in the journey - otherwise attendance wouldn't be an issue.

Maybe its too late but to resurrect it need to bring in a professional marketing organisation to try and elevate the Challenge Cup and bring back some of the excitement of the journey to get to the final and for which people are prepared to pay.  From a promotional aspect I haven't seen much, except an occasional email which just gives ticket details. Nothing to excite or persuade me to attend.

The later QF and SF are on TV which is good but also means most RL fan neutrals won't be bothered to attend the stadium.

[Tommygilf]

43 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

The thing that alot are missing on this is that is our longest established KO competition or any competition for that matter.

It's the luck of the draw. Why change home teams about for the possibility of better attendances?

There are various ways to market games for next to nothing via social media etc.

The competition shouldn't be about "Well if ..... Get there, there should be a better atrendance" for the final. It should be near full capacity for every final. That's the RFL responsibility. Here's one, know when and where it is being played before the previous years final so you can advertise and market straight after the final.

I think you have managed to skirt around the edge of the fact that that the fundamentals have most probably changed.

When the cup was first started, indeed arguably till about 30 years ago, Knockout Cups were the most attractive competitions for punters of most sports in the UK. Now, they just aren't that popular in the same way in sports like Football and Rugby League. The Cup was created, as the sport of RL was to some extent, to respond to a demand

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

When the cup was first started, indeed arguably till about 30 years ago, Knockout Cups were the most attractive competitions for punters of most sports in the UK.

It's further back. I started watching sport seriously 35 years ago and the league - in every sport I watched and talked about - was the title to win. The cup(s) definitely had more import than they do now but they were definitely secondary.

[Hopping Mad]

20 hours ago, Eddie said:

I don’t always, but will try to remember not to in future. 
 

Why do you think it would sell out then? York get about 2,000 for big games at the moment, I’d say doubling that for Leeds’ visit is more than generous but let’s say 4,000 home fans. I can’t see Leeds taking 4,000 to a challenge cup game at York, they only had about 5,000 home fans there for the game against Cas. 

York did host Leeds, in a Challenge Cup tie, in January 1989. The game was switched to Bootham Crescent from Clarence Street, owing to capacity issues at the rugby ground. The official attendance was 11,347.

[redjonn]

21 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

It's further back. I started watching sport seriously 35 years ago and the league - in every sport I watched and talked about - was the title to win. The cup(s) definitely had more import than they do now but they were definitely secondary.

maybe before your period but did any fans really care who where the premiership winners.