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Less than 20,000 sold for Cup Semi Triple Header it seems


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4 hours ago, Stuff Smith said:

I've moved around England (and Wales) quite a bit and I'd say that's more than true. Liverpool "fans" who couldn't find Liverpool on a map. See a hugely successful club, "support" them: maybe I should have done the same.

It’s never too late to see the light.

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It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

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If you want to get more neutrals involved, it's the perfect chance to run a 9s competition alongside it to bump up the number of fans. 

RL fans at the moment have become pretty club-centred. There aren't as many "game-centred" fans as there used to be (or if there are, they are already maxed out with internationals, CCF and GF). If we want more people there, we can't just be appealing to the fans of the 4 clubs involved + fans of the women's game. There's too little lead-up time to sell tickets and RL fans are good at coming up with excuses not to go. 

Run a 9s tournament on the Saturday, culminate with the Women's Final. 9s Semis as a curtain raiser on the Sunday, with the 9s Final sandwiched between. 

We keep banging on about doing a 9s weekend. Best time to do it when there's not much else going on that weekend!

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6 hours ago, HawkMan said:

Greater London population 12 million ,900k Liverpool fans? That's 7.5 % of the whole population of London are Liverpool fans?.😆😀😃🤪🤣

Sounds like the same counting process Tower Hamlets use for election results

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24 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Sounds like the same counting process Tower Hamlets use for election results

I've looked at the youguv report. JonM misread it, 9% of those who said they had a favourite football club said Liverpool.  Plenty I'm sure don't follow football or sport at all. So it's 9 % of those who expressed a preference said Liverpool which sounds right. Not quite 9% of the whole country or London. 

The relevance to this topic was I pointed out Liverpool and Manchester City fans travelled hundreds of miles with no direct trains to get to a semi final. It's a question of fan dedication whatever the sport, also context, Wigan and Saints meet 4 or so times in SL, those matches mean more to fans obviously. What about the GF winners and CC winners joining top two of NRL for a four team World Club Challenge,  might spark CC interest. 

Edited by HawkMan
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1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

If you want to get more neutrals involved, it's the perfect chance to run a 9s competition alongside it to bump up the number of fans. 

RL fans at the moment have become pretty club-centred. There aren't as many "game-centred" fans as there used to be (or if there are, they are already maxed out with internationals, CCF and GF). If we want more people there, we can't just be appealing to the fans of the 4 clubs involved + fans of the women's game. There's too little lead-up time to sell tickets and RL fans are good at coming up with excuses not to go. 

Run a 9s tournament on the Saturday, culminate with the Women's Final. 9s Semis as a curtain raiser on the Sunday, with the 9s Final sandwiched between. 

We keep banging on about doing a 9s weekend. Best time to do it when there's not much else going on that weekend!

BLX

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2 hours ago, RayCee said:

It’s never too late to see the light.

Unfortunately, I got this glory hunting thing all wrong some time ago. My home town has a hugely successful rugby league club, but I moved south in my twenties, saw the dark that is London Broncos, and was hooked. 

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1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

I've looked at the youguv report. JonM misread it, 9% of those who said they had a favourite football club said Liverpool.  Plenty I'm sure don't follow football or sport at all. So it's 9 % of those who expressed a preference said Liverpool which sounds right. Not quite 9% of the whole country or London. 

The relevance to this topic was I pointed out Liverpool and Manchester City fans travelled hundreds of miles with no direct trains to get to a semi final. It's a question of fan dedication whatever the sport, also context, Wigan and Saints meet 4 or so times in SL, those matches mean more to fans obviously. What about the GF winners and CC winners joining top two of NRL for a four team World Club Challenge,  might spark CC interest. 

Thanks. It sounded very worrying there were that many lol. 🙂

I liked the idea of each set of fans having a corner today. 

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13 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't think that is the main reason tbh. Most Cups in every sport have declined and have been doing so for well before Sky came along. Back to the 70s the parity between League and Cup had already started to fade. 

Sky accelerated the shift that had already taken place, but it would have been folly to do anything otherwise. Cups just aren't as popular anymore, and one off purchases runs contrary to the Season ticket culture that is knocking on for over half a century old now - only the final itself holds the prestige to attract the majority of fans.

The change from Wembley and its rebuild also had a major impact. 

Throw in the mix that the normal every day person in the North is living hand to mouth and probably don't have the spare coin to go regulatory to a game, then add in the fact that kids have been playing video games for the last X number of years (lost generation) 

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Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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9 hours ago, Scubby said:

22,141

Not a disaster. Not brilliant. Sounded good on TV and I suspect only saddos like us are clogging up the internet talking about crowds when the prime TV match was so good.

Anyway, for reference - it's the second lowest out of the previous 6 non Covid semi final aggregates:

2019: 24,364 (D/H)
2018: 26,086 (D/H)
2017: 25,322 (aggregate of 2 games)
2016: 20,846 (agg.)
2015: 24,156 (agg.)

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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5 hours ago, Marauder said:

Throw in the mix that the normal every day person in the North is living hand to mouth and probably don't have the spare coin to go regulatory to a game, then add in the fact that kids have been playing video games for the last X number of years (lost generation) 

As the starving masses can’t afford to see live sport, who’s packing out football grounds across the north of England every week? Maybe it’s all minted southerners. 

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25 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Not a disaster. Not brilliant. Sounded good on TV and I suspect only saddos like us are clogging up the internet talking about crowds when the prime TV match was so good.

Anyway, for reference - it's the second lowest out of the previous 6 non Covid semi final aggregates:

2019: 24,364 (D/H)
2018: 26,086 (D/H)
2017: 25,322 (aggregate of 2 games)
2016: 20,846 (agg.)
2015: 24,156 (agg.)

First double header not to feature either a French team or a Championship team though, so an argument yesterday's should have been higher than the 2018 or 2019 editions.

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I can confirm 30+ less sales for Scotland vs Italy at Workington, after this afternoons test purchase for the Tonga match, £7.50 is extremely reasonable, however a £2.50 'delivery' fee for a walk in purchase is beyond taking the mickey, good luck with that, it's cheaper on the telly.

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10 hours ago, Scubby said:

22,141

 

10 hours ago, bratman said:

Not great, but actually quite similar to recent semi final aggregate attendances.

But this also included the Women’s Challenge Cup Final remember, this event alone should be aiming for 5000.

This should be the last time the events are combined as either a double or triple header.

We have plenty of suitable decent Rugby League grounds these events can be held at, St Helens, Wigan, Warrington, Leigh, Huddersfield, Headingley, York. Any of the combinations below would be better than holding a triple header.

Women’s Challenge Cup Final Leeds v Saints - Warrington or Headingley or York

Semi 1 Saints v Wigan - Warrington or Leigh

Semi 2 Huddersfield v Hull - Headingley or York

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1 hour ago, Eddie said:

As the starving masses can’t afford to see live sport, who’s packing out football grounds across the north of England every week? Maybe it’s all minted southerners. 

You need to move away from the big teams who have waiting lists of up to 10 years for a season ticket, look at clubs outside of the Premier and yes they are people who have to make the choice on heating and eating 

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

http://www.pitchero....hornemarauders/

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For those who went yesterday, how was the event? I assume for what is a one-day Magic weekend there was a substantial fanzone, entertainment, food and drink options etc? 

This wasn't a normal event, so I assume it wasnt treated normally? 

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13 minutes ago, Marauder said:

You need to move away from the big teams who have waiting lists of up to 10 years for a season ticket, look at clubs outside of the Premier and yes they are people who have to make the choice on heating and eating 

Just the 40,00 at Sunderland yesterday, with asimilar crowd expected at Sheff Wed for the return.

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1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

First double header not to feature either a French team or a Championship team though, so an argument yesterday's should have been higher than the 2018 or 2019 editions.

That's a fair assessment.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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19 minutes ago, Marauder said:

You need to move away from the big teams who have waiting lists of up to 10 years for a season ticket, look at clubs outside of the Premier and yes they are people who have to make the choice on heating and eating 

I'm just nicking this comment on a recent Guardian article on non league football because it echoes a point I've made and seen made elsewhere: attendances across the board are up, sometimes by absolutely staggering amounts.

"Another encouraging thing this season was a general increase in attendances, our average at Enfield Town was up 62% and we weren't alone in the Isthmian Prem with 14/22 clubs reporting increases, Worthing and Lewes having doubled their crowds. Having a quick look on Non League Matters it seems this was replicated across the country and leagues with South Shields, for example, increasing their average by nearly 500%! Could be that people started watching their local teams while elite football was behind closed doors, a growing disillusionment with money ruling at the top, or people reassessing their finances and priorities post Covid, but it's a welcome change and I hope it continues. We smashed our record with 1,948 at our play off semi and apart from the atmosphere and occasion benefitting, the income from that one game is probably equivalent to a decent run in the FA competitions and will definitely help us move forward in the summer and next season."

Can't see any drop in league attendances either TBH. Bradford City got their highest ever Division 4 attendance yesterday for example.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

First double header not to feature either a French team or a Championship team though, so an argument yesterday's should have been higher than the 2018 or 2019 editions.

On the other hand they have been a bit unlucky that the only West Yorkshire club playing in a venue in West Yorkshire was the one with hardly any fans. They'd have been hoping no doubt that Leeds or Cas would be there (but then again hope is not a strategy.)

Edited by M j M
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26 minutes ago, Marauder said:

You need to move away from the big teams who have waiting lists of up to 10 years for a season ticket, look at clubs outside of the Premier and yes they are people who have to make the choice on heating and eating 

So you think most people at the Wigan Athletic or Hull City matches are there at the expense of eating or heating? 

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It may be deemed 'acceptable', but I personally think its very difficult to call it a good attendance and a success. I think that's spinning too much. 

Based on Hull KR taking 7kish, their game should have been able to draw 10k plus as a standalone. 

Wigan v Saints should be drawing 12 to 15k at somewhere like Wire. 

The Women's Cup Final should be aiming for 5k. 

We really should be pushing for 30k combined here and all three games looking healthy instead of being played in front of empty stands. 

Of course there are other considerations like stadium costs and broadcasting deals, but on a simple basis, 22k shouldn't be deemed a success and a good crowd. 

Surely we aren't so poor that we would rather have 22k in one ground rather than 30k across 3?

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31 minutes ago, M j M said:

On the other hand they have been a bit unlucky that the only West Yorkshire club playing in a venue in West Yorkshire was the one with hardly any fans. They'd have been hoping no doubt that Leeds or Cas would be there (but then again hope is not a strategy.)

Yes, that was a challenge, and it's a slight flaw with the double header format overall. If we book Bolton we could easily end up with the two Hulls and two other Yorkshire teams. 

We do have a good number of appropriately sized and located grounds in the North to get the right grounds. 

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10 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Yes, that was a challenge, and it's a slight flaw with the double header format overall. If we book Bolton we could easily end up with the two Hulls and two other Yorkshire teams. 

We do have a good number of appropriately sized and located grounds in the North to get the right grounds. 

We have created this spiral of loading double and triple headers together when I am yet to see evidence that there is a huge demand for this from the RL viewing public. We can see with our own eyes.

The next off the rank is England Women v France and England v Combined SL Players. Now I am convinced that with the right billing and right promotion that the women's international, as a stand alone fixture, could attract equal or more than the 5-6k likely to turn up at Warrington for the double header. Yet it will be played in front of a few hundred souls as a curtain raiser.

What objectives is this actually achieving? The actual evidence is people attending women's fixtures are often a different age range and demographic from regular RL fixtures.

Edited by Scubby
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22k wasn’t great, there’s some reasons for that but that’s been discussed to death on here so I won’t join in that again. 

I heard someone say yesterday that you’d get better crowds if someone had home advantage and they’re possibly right but I don’t know whether that’s the way to go. 

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