England Vs Samoa - Your Team

[Dunbar]

23 minutes ago, Young Blood said:

Difference is in 2019 players you mentioned above were no where near as good how they. The Panthers players have all won Grand Finals and played State Of Origin. Plus England are not near full strength. 

I am just looking at the Samoan squads from the last 3 or 4 years and this year isn't a load better (if at all).  It just isn't.

[SydneyRoosters]

My England 17 for Samoa clash-

1-Tomkins

2-Makinson

3-Farnworth

4-Watkins

5-Young

6-Welsby

7-Williams

8-Oledzki

9-Ackers

10-Thompson

11-McMeeken

12-Whitehead

13-Knowles

14-Radley

15-Sneyd

16-Burgess

17-Hill

[Mojo]

2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I am just looking at the Samoan squads from the last 3 or 4 years and this year isn't a load better (if at all).  It just isn't.

You can't wait until this weekend to find out? Literally everyone knows this samoan teams the best team they've ever assembled. You keep going to the past and comparing teams. Leilua and Lafai we're way past there prime. Seve (a center) was in the halves with Luai. Mulitalo was 18 years old and he was nowhere near the player he is now. Tino was also another 18 year old starting his career. So most of those young players who are stars now weren't playing at the high level like they are now. Stop looking at the past teams to compare and look at the current players and how they're performing in the nrl level now. Most of those if not all are elite talent now in the nrl.

[Mr Frisky]

4 minutes ago, Mojo said:

You can't wait until this weekend to find out? Literally everyone knows this samoan teams the best team they've ever assembled. You keep going to the past and comparing teams. Leilua and Lafai we're way past there prime. Seve (a center) was in the halves with Luai. Mulitalo was 18 years old and he was nowhere near the player he is now. Tino was also another 18 year old starting his career. So most of those young players who are stars now weren't playing at the high level like they are now. Stop looking at the past teams to compare and look at the current players and how they're performing in the nrl level now. Most of those if not all are elite talent now in the nrl.

Do any Samoan players play in the NRL or even for Penrith? - I'm not sure.....

[Dunbar]

16 minutes ago, Mojo said:

You can't wait until this weekend to find out? Literally everyone knows this samoan teams the best team they've ever assembled. You keep going to the past and comparing teams. Leilua and Lafai we're way past there prime. Seve (a center) was in the halves with Luai. Mulitalo was 18 years old and he was nowhere near the player he is now. Tino was also another 18 year old starting his career. So most of those young players who are stars now weren't playing at the high level like they are now. Stop looking at the past teams to compare and look at the current players and how they're performing in the nrl level now. Most of those if not all are elite talent now in the nrl.

I'm just on a Rugby League discussion board discussing Rugby League.

And you have posted 21 times on this thread and I have posted 22 times.  Why are you telling me to wait now?

As for elite level talent.

The best teams have the best spines.  That's why Australia have been the best team in world Rugby League for decades and why Penrith are the best in the NRL.

Based on the team you posted earlier in the thread....

Samoa have a full back who has never played there.

A number 7 (Milford) who is past his best - which wasn't very good in the first place.

A 9 who is a decent Super League player

A 6 who is a show pony

A 13 who is also well past his best and can't make the starting team for his NRL team when it is at full strength. 

[WN83]

McMeekan the only injury doubt according to Wane, after picking up a knock against Fiji.  It'll be a big big day for Batchelor if McMeekan is absent. I've got every faith in him and he'd be my pick as the England player I expect to enhance their reputation the most from this tournament. In games against Wigan this season I thought he was Saints best player overall. Others had the odd better game but he was terrific in every single one and up against the likes of Bateman and Farrell, that's not easy. 

[Mojo]

6 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I'm just on a Rugby League discussion board discussing Rugby League.

And you have posted 21 times on this thread and I have posted 22 times.  Why are you telling me to wait now?

As for elite level talent.

The best teams have the best spines.  That's why Australia have been the best team in world Rugby League for decades and why Penrith are the best in the NRL.

Based on the team you posted earlier in the thread....

Samoa have a full back who has never played there.

A number 7 (Milford) who is past his best - which wasn't very good in the first place.

A 9 who is a decent Super League player

A 6 who is a show pony

A 13 who is also well past his best and can't make the starting team for his NRL team when it is at full strength. 

3 more days to go and we'll find out if the show pony puts on a show or not

[johnh1]

I don’t get this love in with Watkins as a centre. I’m a Watkins fan, but he’s a 2nd rower now, and a damned good one at that. Play him in the 2nd row or as a sub, but not as a first choice centre.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

5 minutes ago, johnh1 said:

I don’t get this love in with Watkins as a centre. I’m a Watkins fan, but he’s a 2nd rower now, and a damned good one at that. Play him in the 2nd row or as a sub, but not as a first choice centre.

Yeah I think it's fair to say he's behind Newman and Percival if they're fit. As they're not though, who would you put there instead? Centre always feels like we have limited options. 

[WN83]

It's only a friendly but Watkins performance against Fiji and in particular, his link up with Young on that right hand side should surely give us confidence he's still got the capability to play centre and to a very good level. Was he not played in the second row for Salford due to a lack of options at times for them? (adding in the fact they have loads of outside backs)

He'd probably worry me more in the second row at international level because he's not the most physical/aggressive second rower knocking around. 

[Dunbar]

I'm OK with Watkins at centre.

Yes he is playing on the edge for Salford but he is looking fit and sharp and over a tournament he get his head back into 'centre mode'... plenty of muscle memory there.

Edited October 11, 2022 by Dunbar

[StandOffHalf]

31 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:

I don't think there has ever been a time when Widdop was better than Tomkins- even when they both played on the NRL. 

Tomkins was actually pretty good in a very poor NZ Warriors team but the Aussie haters didn't want him to succeed - anyone could have played for that Melbourne team and looked good.

Yes, it is pretty silly to compare players at different points in time.

It's not a class thing with Tomkins. My concern is purely about his durability and athleticism in 2022.

[StandOffHalf]

1 hour ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

Yeah I think it's fair to say he's behind Newman and Percival if they're fit. As they're not though, who would you put there instead? Centre always feels like we have limited options. 

I'm looking forward to seeing Watkins at right centre, with Young as his wing-man.

My centres though would have been Jake Connor and Herbie.

[DavidM]

3 hours ago, Mr Frisky said:

I don't think there has ever been a time when Widdop was better than Tomkins- even when they both played on the NRL. 

Tomkins was actually pretty good in a very poor NZ Warriors team but the Aussie haters didn't want him to succeed - anyone could have played for that Melbourne team and looked good.

Widdop was outstanding for St George, a much lesser side . He was a  central figure for them and I’m sure he even won a positional Dally M award one year . Since he left they’ve gone backwards quickly 

Edited October 11, 2022 by DavidM

[StandOffHalf]

4 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Widdop was outstanding for St George, a much lesser side . He was a  central figure for them and I’m sure he even won a positional Dally M award one year . Since he left they’ve gone backwards quickly 

Yes, Widdop was fantastic for St. George. He was a leader and a captain for them and played his best football there.

I think what a lot of NRL/Australian fans will remember him for is his time in red and white. It seems a distant memory him playing for Melbourne.

[GeordieSaint]

 

[Tex Evans Thigh]

3 hours ago, WN83 said:

McMeekan the only injury doubt according to Wane, after picking up a knock against Fiji.  It'll be a big big day for Batchelor if McMeekan is absent. I've got every faith in him and he'd be my pick as the England player I expect to enhance their reputation the most from this tournament. In games against Wigan this season I thought he was Saints best player overall. Others had the odd better game but he was terrific in every single one and up against the likes of Bateman and Farrell, that's not easy. 

I'd have Batchelor over McMeeken any day of the week anyway. Much better player, more honest, tougher, faster and more skillful. The only thing McMeeken has over Batchelor is size and he hardly uses that to good effect. Batchelor will go well if he's picked.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

1 hour ago, DavidM said:

Widdop was outstanding for St George, a much lesser side . He was a  central figure for them and I’m sure he even won a positional Dally M award one year . Since he left they’ve gone backwards quickly 

There was a period for St George about 4 or 5 years ago where he was unplayable and arguably the best player in the world, certainly best in his position. There's a lot of negativity towards Widdop, perhaps because he didn't hit the heights with England all the time but he was far from poor. He was very good when moved to full back in 2017 and really got our attack going once he slotted in there. 

I'd rather have 2017 Widdop at FB than current Tomkins. I'd rather have Welsby than both.

[Tex Evans Thigh]

It's interesting to compare the 2017 England team with this one. I'd agree the backs are probably better but the pack not really close. We also have a bunch of players who played in both who are probably all worse now than they were then - Hill, Hall, Watkins, Whitehead. Missing genuine world class players like Roby, Burgess, Graham and O'Loughlin is tough too. Even Hodgson allowed Roby to come off the bench and was excellent as an impact hooker. I am convinced if Hodgson had played allowing Roby to come on in stints instead of playing the full 80 we would be going into this as defending champions.

[WN83]

10 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

I'd have Batchelor over McMeeken any day of the week anyway. Much better player, more honest, tougher, faster and more skillful. The only thing McMeeken has over Batchelor is size and he hardly uses that to good effect. Batchelor will go well if he's picked.

I’d agree. He’s been superb Batchelor this season and McMeekan has had some disruption. His best form seemed to be at prop but he’ll be needed as a back rower for England. 

[bobbruce]

8 hours ago, Mojo said:

Is England better than that last squad from the world cup tho? I mean missing Graham and Burgess is a huge loss. Maybe that's why the nrl fans think the English look weak.

England aren’t weak because they are missing Burgess and Graham in the same way Australia aren’t weak because Smith and Thurston aren’t playing. What weakens England is players like Walmsley and Newman not playing both certain starters if fit. 

[Dunbar]

26 minutes ago, Tex Evans Thigh said:

It's interesting to compare the 2017 England team with this one. I'd agree the backs are probably better but the pack not really close. We also have a bunch of players who played in both who are probably all worse now than they were then - Hill, Hall, Watkins, Whitehead. Missing genuine world class players like Roby, Burgess, Graham and O'Loughlin is tough too. Even Hodgson allowed Roby to come off the bench and was excellent as an impact hooker. I am convinced if Hodgson had played allowing Roby to come on in stints instead of playing the full 80 we would be going into this as defending champions.

While I think there is no doubt that the pack members you list were all quality, there are some positives in 2022.  Walmsley is a big miss but we have to cope without him.

Tom Burgess is a better and more mature player than he was in 2017 and has been leading the Souths pack for a couple of years now and was probably the best middle forward in last years Grand Final.

Luke Thompson is probably at the height of his career and something to prove - I think he will have a big World Cup.

While players like Farnworth and Young may grab headlines, I think Mikolaj Oledzki could be the emrging England player in this tournament.  I think he is a very good prop - big, mobile and an outstanding defender.

Those three are the tip quality for me and Hill, Lees and Cooper can do a job as well.  

Plus we have two very good 13's in Knowles and Radley and edge options in Batchelor, McMeeken, Whitehead and Bateman actually on the edge rather than in the centre where he belongs.

[MattSantos]

8 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

While I think there is no doubt that the pack members you list were all quality, there are some positives in 2022.  Walmsley is a big miss but we have to cope without him.

Tom Burgess is a better and more mature player than he was in 2017 and has been leading the Souths pack for a couple of years now and was probably the best middle forward in last years Grand Final.

Luke Thompson is probably at the height of his career and something to prove - I think he will have a big World Cup.

While players like Farnworth and Young may grab headlines, I think Mikolaj Oledzki could be the emrging England player in this tournament.  I think he is a very good prop - big, mobile and an outstanding defender.

Those three are the tip quality for me and Hill, Lees and Cooper can do a job as well.  

Plus we have two very good 13's in Knowles and Radley and edge options in Batchelor, McMeeken, Whitehead and Bateman actually on the edge rather than in the centre where he belongs.

STOP BEING OPTIMISTIC. I CAN'T COPE!!

 

[graveyard johnny]

when NRL teams even as great as Penrith are devoid of their spine players as happens during origin - they suddenly look very ordinary - this happens with most NRL teams - will see how good this backline look without the panthers 1 -7and 13 for starters - good luck to them and I hope they become "standalone" stars during the comp but my feeling is they won't get the engine started without the jump leads - Eng to win but not to look convincing either 

[GeordieSaint]

50 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

While I think there is no doubt that the pack members you list were all quality, there are some positives in 2022.  Walmsley is a big miss but we have to cope without him.

Tom Burgess is a better and more mature player than he was in 2017 and has been leading the Souths pack for a couple of years now and was probably the best middle forward in last years Grand Final.

Luke Thompson is probably at the height of his career and something to prove - I think he will have a big World Cup.

While players like Farnworth and Young may grab headlines, I think Mikolaj Oledzki could be the emrging England player in this tournament.  I think he is a very good prop - big, mobile and an outstanding defender.

Those three are the tip quality for me and Hill, Lees and Cooper can do a job as well.  

Plus we have two very good 13's in Knowles and Radley and edge options in Batchelor, McMeeken, Whitehead and Bateman actually on the edge rather than in the centre where he belongs.

I think England are stronger. Yes, Burgess, Roby and Graham are not there. But our backs are better (and have pace!), especially the halves and the pack is solid with some excellent talent and experience.