37 of 42 back IMG’s proposal

[DI Keith Fowler]

Reading back on that podcast, obviously we now know licensing in a form is back in, but I'm intrigued by the role of the experts they might provide.

So currently we have someone sat at the RFL (or SL depending on how it's split) responsible for lets say digital marketing. We're not a big sport, we don't pay all that well, so who do we attract? People looking for experience, people who wouldn't be hired by bigger firms etc.

IMG are market leaders, they have people in these roles who are experts. We will likely benefit more from 10 hours of their time a week than having someone inexperienced doing 40 hours a week directly employed. I think that's what was alluded to by "stop trying to do everything in house". We don't necessarily need someone employed by the RFL to head things, we can receive (at no cost given the terms of the partnership) expertise from people much more qualified. 

I think that's quite an exciting prospect, we could be doing this right across the board (digital content, major events, TV production, branding etc.), even if it's just guidance it's expertise we don't currently have within the sport.

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, steve oates said:

 

The "big changes" may well refer to the "closed shop" we are looking at where MKM can be sure that there will be no relegation and they can be assured as they watch Rovers games from the luxurious directors facilities, they won't be "going down" again. The closed shop idea isn't new at all, we had that some time ago, and so you can't say "it's IMG what done it". More likely the SL bosses told IMG to do it, to deflect those against such a move having a go at them

Do it they did and now they seem to have wandered off.  Maybe they have served their main purpose for now and there is not much else to do......

Can you provide any evidence where IMG or the RFL have stated there will be any sort of 'closed shop' ?

By definition a close shop is where there is no further entry into that particular group - something IMG have actually stated isn't part of their plan. They've stated that any club who achieves a Grade A license will be exempt from relegation from SL, so ANY club can get themselves promoted and gain an A license - so not a closed shop at all if its open to everyone. The only thing that will stop a club from gaining an A license is the clubs themselves and their ability to meet the criteria set.

That may change in the future if we ever get to a point where the number of A License clubs exceeds the number where the available funding can sustain the top flight, but lets face it, its highly unlikely thats going to happen in the next decade by the time IMG's current contract expires. 

[Toby Chopra]

1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

Can you provide any evidence where IMG or the RFL have stated there will be any sort of 'closed shop' ?

By definition a close shop is where there is no further entry into that particular group - something IMG have actually stated isn't part of their plan. They've stated that any club who achieves a Grade A license will be exempt from relegation from SL, so ANY club can get themselves promoted and gain an A license - so not a closed shop at all if its open to everyone. The only thing that will stop a club from gaining an A license is the clubs themselves and their ability to meet the criteria set.

That may change in the future if we ever get to a point where the number of A License clubs exceeds the number where the available funding can sustain the top flight, but lets face it, its highly unlikely thats going to happen in the next decade by the time IMG's current contract expires. 

Indeed. We currently have - at best - 6 Cat A clubs. If by some miracle in a decade's time we have 12, then European rugby league will have been transformed for the good, and no-one will be worrying about closed shops, as the sport will be thriving. 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

52 minutes ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

Reading back on that podcast, obviously we now know licensing in a form is back in, but I'm intrigued by the role of the experts they might provide.

So currently we have someone sat at the RFL (or SL depending on how it's split) responsible for lets say digital marketing. We're not a big sport, we don't pay all that well, so who do we attract? People looking for experience, people who wouldn't be hired by bigger firms etc.

IMG are market leaders, they have people in these roles who are experts. We will likely benefit more from 10 hours of their time a week than having someone inexperienced doing 40 hours a week directly employed. I think that's what was alluded to by "stop trying to do everything in house". We don't necessarily need someone employed by the RFL to head things, we can receive (at no cost given the terms of the partnership) expertise from people much more qualified. 

I think that's quite an exciting prospect, we could be doing this right across the board (digital content, major events, TV production, branding etc.), even if it's just guidance it's expertise we don't currently have within the sport.

This is precisely why I've been onboard with this from the get-go

What rugby league needs to grow isn't the capital that private equity would bring, it is expertise that the sport doesn't have. I'm much happier we've basically sold an equity stake in the game in exchange for IMG's expertise, than if we'd sold say 25% of future TV rights in exchange for £20m today. That's money that owners would have just p*ssed up the wall on salaries or other things that didn't create long term value, just as they did the first time in 1995.

This model is the perfect strategy for growth. Doesn't guarantee success, nothing does, but gives us the best chance.

 

[GUBRATS]

56 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Indeed. We currently have - at best - 6 Cat A clubs. If by some miracle in a decade's time we have 12, then European rugby league will have been transformed for the good, and no-one will be worrying about closed shops, as the sport will be thriving. 

The sport , or the cat A clubs ?

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

Can you provide any evidence where IMG or the RFL have stated there will be any sort of 'closed shop' ?

By definition a close shop is where there is no further entry into that particular group - something IMG have actually stated isn't part of their plan. They've stated that any club who achieves a Grade A license will be exempt from relegation from SL, so ANY club can get themselves promoted and gain an A license - so not a closed shop at all if its open to everyone. The only thing that will stop a club from gaining an A license is the clubs themselves and their ability to meet the criteria set.

That may change in the future if we ever get to a point where the number of A License clubs exceeds the number where the available funding can sustain the top flight, but lets face it, its highly unlikely thats going to happen in the next decade by the time IMG's current contract expires. 

You were doing fine until " criteria set " 

[newbe]

Surely IMG should clarify and confirm there measures for 2024 season now. It will at least let clubs plan now, no matter were clubs  think should be.

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, newbe said:

Surely IMG should clarify and confirm there measures for 2024 season now. It will at least let clubs plan now, no matter were clubs  think should be.

Those discussions will happen this month.

[Toby Chopra]

43 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

The sport , or the cat A clubs ?

The sport, because if we've managed to get another 6 clubs up to the level of Leeds and Saints in terms of financials and infrastructure it won't be solely because of what those new 6 clubs have done themselves.

It will be because the image and attractiveness of rugby league has been transformed, and they have taken advantage of it to grow their businesses. But clubs at every level will be benefiting from the better perception of rugby league. 

We've got to stop thinking of each club as an island divorced from each other and the wider perceptions of the sport. For instance the Premier League drove the football boom, but all the other tiers are up as well over the last 30 years as the attractiveness of the sport grew. 

A rising tide lifts all boats. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by Toby Chopra

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

The sport, because if we've managed to get another 6 clubs up to the level of Leeds and Saints in terms of financials and infrastructure it won't be solely because of what those new 6 clubs have done themselves.

It will be because the image and attractiveness of rugby league has been transformed, and they have taken advantage of it to grow their businesses. But clubs at every level will be benefiting from the better perception of rugby league. 

We've got to stop thinking of each club as an island divorced from each other and the wider perceptions of the sport. For instance the Premier League drove the football boom, but all the other tiers are up as well over the last 30 years as the attractiveness of the sport grew. 

A rising tide lifts all boats. 

Exactly, what is a bigger competition by every metric, even adjusting for inflation: the Championship or the old Second Division? It isn't even close.

Top post.

[Oxford]

Personally I love it when ideas are linked with events, when progress is linked with actions, when theories and conclusions are seen as obvious and when everything is wrapped in promises.

 

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

44 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

The sport, because if we've managed to get another 6 clubs up to the level of Leeds and Saints in terms of financials and infrastructure it won't be solely because of what those new 6 clubs have done themselves.

It will be because the image and attractiveness of rugby league has been transformed, and they have taken advantage of it to grow their businesses. But clubs at every level will be benefiting from the better perception of rugby league. 

We've got to stop thinking of each club as an island divorced from each other and the wider perceptions of the sport. For instance the Premier League drove the football boom, but all the other tiers are up as well over the last 30 years as the attractiveness of the sport grew. 

A rising tide lifts all boats. 

Great post. What all the people who often criticise the "greed" of the Premier League willfully ignore when they describe how it has ruined the soul of football, is the impact it has had on the wider game. The PL could have done more, sure, that's always going to be possible to say, but there's no doubt that the football infrastructure of this country has been transformed by the money, talent and ideas brought into the UK game as a consequence of the PL growth.

That could all have happened in another country instead, with perhaps the German or Italian leagues becoming the No. 1 global TV product, had the English team owners been closed-minded in the 1990's and not taken the chance presented. Football clubs at every level would have been much poorer. 

 

[Saint Toppy]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

You were doing fine until " criteria set " 

I don't see what the issue is as long as those criteria are applied fairly & equally against every single club, no dispensations, no exemptions for anyone. Clubs either meet the criteria for a certain grade or they don't.

[idrewthehaggis]

Any one wondering if our television overlords are clued up or care about the Game,consider this one.

Thursday 23 February 2023 at 8pm

Sky sports - Salford v Hull KR

BT sports - Manchester United v Barcelona

Bad enough having a night game in winter, or between as almost geographically apart RL clubs as possible, but on this night too. 

It is like someone is trying to suppress gates for another reason?

#### up or conspiracy? 

[RigbyLuger]

7 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Any one wondering if our television overlords are clued up or care about the Game,consider this one.

Thursday 23 February 2023 at 8pm

Sky sports - Salford v Hull KR

BT sports - Manchester United v Barcelona

Bad enough having a night game in winter, or between as almost geographically apart RL clubs as possible, but on this night too. 

It is like someone is trying to suppress gates for another reason?

#### up or conspiracy? 

Which fixture was announced first?

[Oxford]

5 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Any one wondering if our television overlords are clued up or care about the Game,consider this one.

Thursday 23 February 2023 at 8pm

Sky sports - Salford v Hull KR

BT sports - Manchester United v Barcelona

Bad enough having a night game in winter, or between as almost geographically apart RL clubs as possible, but on this night too. 

It is like someone is trying to suppress gates for another reason?

#### up or conspiracy? 

What idiots would rather watch footy than TGG?

Sky have lost their edge but they're neither part of a conspiracy nor cocking it up they're just largely indifferent a bit like the BBC and the SL Show.

[Oxford]

20 hours ago, DI Keith Fowler said:

I support Widnes

Mum's the word!

[gingerjon]

13 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

#### up or conspiracy? 

How about neither?

[Liverpool Rover]

On 03/01/2023 at 18:09, GUBRATS said:

By doing what exactly?

One of the complaints I have read on this forum over loop fixtures is that it is just a lazy way of getting spectators to part with their money instead of making an effort to engage with their fan bases to increase attendances. The usual pre & half time entertainment and fan zones will make games feel like more of an event rather than just turning up for the game and going straight home again. Looking on google maps there seems to be several fields around the LSV. Could Leigh not do anything around the ground?

[Hemi4561]

1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

The sport, because if we've managed to get another 6 clubs up to the level of Leeds and Saints in terms of financials and infrastructure it won't be solely because of what those new 6 clubs have done themselves.

It will be because the image and attractiveness of rugby league has been transformed, and they have taken advantage of it to grow their businesses. But clubs at every level will be benefiting from the better perception of rugby league. 

We've got to stop thinking of each club as an island divorced from each other and the wider perceptions of the sport. For instance the Premier League drove the football boom, but all the other tiers are up as well over the last 30 years as the attractiveness of the sport grew. 

A rising tide lifts all boats. 

 "A rising tide lifts all boats"

Except those that the Admirals have decided are no longer required as they are using fuel that they don't deserve, and so will be used for torpedo practice by those more deserving of the finite resources.

[idrewthehaggis]

39 minutes ago, Oxford said:

What idiots would rather watch footy than TGG?

Sky have lost their edge but they're neither part of a conspiracy nor cocking it up they're just largely indifferent a bit like the BBC and the SL Show.

Quite alot of Salfordians and Mancs to be honest, as you know.

Indifference is what I think too. 

Indifference is the slow killer though.

 

[Oxford]

5 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Quite alot of Salfordians and Mancs to be honest, as you know.

Far too many, sadly.

Nowt so queer ....

 

6 minutes ago, idrewthehaggis said:

Indifference is what I think too. 

Indifference is the slow killer though.

It's an indifference born out of attitudes long past their sell by date too.

[Angelic Cynic]

1 hour ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

Great post. What all the people who often criticise the "greed" of the Premier League willfully ignore when they describe how it has ruined the soul of football, is the impact it has had on the wider game. The PL could have done more, sure, that's always going to be possible to say, but there's no doubt that the football infrastructure of this country has been transformed by the money, talent and ideas brought into the UK game as a consequence of the PL growth.

That could all have happened in another country instead, with perhaps the German or Italian leagues becoming the No. 1 global TV product, had the English team owners been closed-minded in the 1990's and not taken the chance presented. Football clubs at every level would have been much poorer. 

 

Think you are wrong.Majority of clubs hugely in debt.Most are foreign owned.

Some are even owned by despotic,murderous states.

Even Tory MP Tracy Crouch is totally against everythong that has gone on;and continues to go on.

Money is going out of soccer - and out of this country.

Also,England males won't be winning a major soccer tournament anytime soon.

Soccer got lucky - after a number of tragedies - and they had a lot of money prior to the broadcast deal,to play with. 

Lots of soccer clubs,because they are in so much debt,have taken to accepting loans,mainly from the USA,despite charges on their stadia and Academy facilities.

[sweaty craiq]

1 hour ago, Liverpool Rover said:

One of the complaints I have read on this forum over loop fixtures is that it is just a lazy way of getting spectators to part with their money instead of making an effort to engage with their fan bases to increase attendances. The usual pre & half time entertainment and fan zones will make games feel like more of an event rather than just turning up for the game and going straight home again. Looking on google maps there seems to be several fields around the LSV. Could Leigh not do anything around the ground?

I encourage you to purchase a ticket for the first home game v Salford - if not impressed I will reimburse you.

[Hull Kingston Bronco]

47 minutes ago, Angelic Cynic said:

Think you are wrong.Majority of clubs hugely in debt.Most are foreign owned.

Some are even owned by despotic,murderous states.

Even Tory MP Tracy Crouch is totally against everythong that has gone on;and continues to go on.

Money is going out of soccer - and out of this country.

Also,England males won't be winning a major soccer tournament anytime soon.

Soccer got lucky - after a number of tragedies - and they had a lot of money prior to the broadcast deal,to play with. 

Lots of soccer clubs,because they are in so much debt,have taken to accepting loans,mainly from the USA,despite charges on their stadia and Academy facilities.

I'm sorry, but you're measuring different things. That doesn't undermine my argument.

The first Premier League TV deal was £60m/season. It is now £1.2bn/season. But what's equally important is that in the Championship total revenues are now £700m per season, in the 2nd tier!! Championship average attendances are 26k, higher than Italy's Serie A, and the same level as the PL average in its first season. It's demonstrably clear that the PL's exponential growth has also driven lower-tier revenue and audience, and that the sport has created value throughout the pyramid. 

If you're looking at debt, consider this: The net debt across the PL is now £4bn. But Chelsea alone was recently bought for that, and there are 20 clubs in the league. The assets far outweigh any debt, because value has been created. What matters is the aggregate net worth of the businesses in the league. This has grown exponentially. There's nothing wrong with debt, if you can afford to service it and its purpose is to enable asset value growth. That's why we have mortgages. This is the prize we sell to potential rugby league investors, with a sport starting from a low base having huge potential to grow as a multiple of present value. 

If you're looking at talent rather than money, re: your England point, then again the data is against you. England males are the most consistently competitive they have ever been since the game spread internationally. As are the women. Having the most revenue enables you to attract the best talent globally, which alongside the greater resources available for investment in development pathways means that any local talent that does rise to the top against such competition is better than it would otherwise be. Otherwise the club would just buy a better foreigner, because they have no real price barrier. I doubt many of England's Italia '90 squad would make a PL side.