RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, JohnM said:

Well, if you have to ask.....

Yes I do, please explain?

 

[RL Tragic]

12 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Me too.

And I really enjoyed Italy v Scotland.

ᴀᴀʀᴏɴ ʙᴏᴡᴇʀ
@AaronBower
·
12h
Last point on World Cup tickets tonight. Jon Dutton told me last week 2013 sales practically surpassed already and hopeful of posting more than 571,000 who watched women’s Euros this summer. Marathon, not a sprint, I hope.

If that is true - it is interesting that it is already more popular than 2013 with weeks of sales to come - despite the perception here that it won't be. Although I am not sure if that is including women's and wheelchair sales.

So the hope must be things will pick up.

Good point , Foes anyone know if it includes all 3 tournaments. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Well if the ticket pricing brings in more money than 2017, then it will be viewed as a success. The empty seats don't make a good viewing spectacle, especially for the detractors who are told RL is big in the North etc. It will give the perception that tickets in the South would've been even worse, but I think the opposite. 

It's an interesting one if they sell materially more tickets at higher prices than 2013 and make more money - but then the argument put is that 2013 managed to sell out more games.

I struggle to reconcile how both can be true.

Unless it is a case of it appears undersold due to larger stadiums half full as opposed to small grounds nearly full - which is just an optics thing. Is it better to have 8k in a 20k stadium paying £35 average per head or 6k sold out in a 6k stadium paying £15 average?

Although I accept that 6k at £15 is better than 2k - which might well happen for some games.

Edited October 17, 2022 by Leonard

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Agreed - but 2013 is being held up as a standard and should easily be surpassed and at materially higher prices.

I agree when it comes to profit, and I have made the point myself that it is not all about attendance. However, the thing is we could have had both. As I said previously you can get away with some of these prices for genuine marquee games like a semi-final at the Emirates, final at Old Trafford and even England games. You need to be a little more nuanced for the likes of Tonga v Cook Islands in a 34k stadium in Middlesbrough or as we have seen a New Zealand v Lebanon game in Warrington.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RL Tragic said:

Good point , Foes anyone know if it includes all 3 tournaments. 

I guess it will - but then again we have 5 weeks of additional ticket sales for the men's game to add in - so should still surpass on a like for like.

[OriginalMrC]

They should have given the tickets away for nothing. At least we'd have had full stadiums. Or would we

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:

They should have given the tickets away for nothing. At least we'd have had full stadiums. Or would we

No we wouldn’t. 

[Guest]

Just now, Eddie said:

No we wouldn’t. 

Free tickets and someone singing the national anthem and we are good to go.

[Archie Gordon]

Taking an emotionless view, in terms of finances, this RLWC has always been about 5 or 6 games only - and I think that they're priced fine and selling OK. First one is in the bag.

 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

I agree when it comes to profit, and I have made the point myself that it is not all about attendance. However, the thing is we could have had both. As I said previously you can get away with some of these prices for genuine marquee games like a semi-final at the Emirates, final at Old Trafford and even England games. You need to be a little more nuanced for the likes of Tonga v Cook Islands in a 34k stadium in Middlesbrough or as we have seen a New Zealand v Lebanon game in Warrington.

 

2 minutes ago, Leonard said:

I guess it will - but then again we have 5 weeks of additional ticket sales for the men's game to add in - so should still surpass on a like for like.

Perception is a big challenge here. In reality, we had some low crowds last time, events that looked great, bustling, festivals often only had 6 to 9k in, so as a pure numbers game you can see how we can exceed 2013. 

But I think Dutton is including the additional 33 games in his calculations, because he likes to spin. 

[ATLANTISMAN]

29 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I think the RLWC organisers have gone down the route of selling this as a "world's elite" event, rather than something that was sold at rock-bottom prices. 

I understand the theory, but it's not that easy to put into practice when you consider the context around RL in this country. 

Firstly, a lot of these games are tough sells, and I would have liked to have seen more aggressive pricing in the group stages, aside from potentially the England, Australia and New Zealand games which sould be big draws. I don't think having England and Australia on the same day was particularly helpful either. 

Secondly, RL in this country has been on a treadmill of discounting for years, and that is a hard treadmill to get off. We have had the RFL and clubs conditioning the core audience that RL should be cheap, that discounts will come, and that RL isn't to be percieved as something valuable. You can't just go from that to asking £50 to sit behind the sticks at Hull. 

I agree with Dutton that this should be an event that should attract top-dollar tickets, but I think he's gone too far with the premium pricing, and he has been let down by years of heavy discounting across the rest of RL. 

I agree + its mainly been pitched at RL fans, the whole thing is a mess right upto the premium hospitality prices being the same as the 6 Nations for the Semi-Finals and Final (Its being run by the same Edinburgh company that have the SRU contract) they have taken the RUWC and 6 Nations model and tried to replicate it and now the wheels have fallen off.

 

Thank god the France 2025 organisers  have already seen the mistakes made and will make tickets affordable for all at 30 euros with one price hospitality packages far easier and simple to understand and a great way to expand  the footprint and support base backed up in each town and city by the Marie with CASH:)

 

P 

[Dave T]

Just now, Archie Gordon said:

Taking an emotionless view, in terms of finances, this RLWC has always been about 5 or 6 games only - and I think that they're priced fine and selling OK. First one is in the bag.

 

I'm not sure that should be the aim. 

Im pretty sure when games were awarded to Leeds and Warrington our aim wasn't 5 and 6k.

But, hopefully that is a low point, and after tonight we go better. 

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, Leonard said:

Free tickets and someone singing the national anthem and we are good to go.

Even if it was free they’d struggle to get 5k in for tonight’s game at Doncaster. But that’s fine, this isn’t football and it’s good that we now have 16 nations capable of playing in a WC. 

[Guest]

Just now, Dave T said:

I'm not sure that should be the aim. 

Im pretty sure when games were awarded to Leeds and Warrington our aim wasn't 5 and 6k.

But, hopefully that is a low point, and after tonight we go better. 

Were there ever any figures on the number of tickets cancelled after the delay?

[crashmon]

Jamicia vs Ireland in a 15K stadium in London would have sold out or close to.  Gate would have been over 10K.

[londonrlfan]

1 minute ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

I agree + its mainly been pitched at RL fans, the whole thing is a mess right upto the premium hospitality prices being the same as the 6 Nations for the Semi-Finals and Final (Its being run by the same Edinburgh company that have the SRU contract) they have taken the RUWC and 6 Nations model and tried to replicate it and now the wheels have fallen off.

 

Thank god the France 2025 organisers  have already seen the mistakes made and will make tickets affordable for all at 30 euros with one price hospitality packages far easier and simple to understand and a great way to expand  the footprint and support base backed up in each town and city by the Marie with CASH:)

 

P 

I think the French World Cup will be well supported. It will be a bit of novelty for them as well, unlike over here where maybe it seems a bit overkill. I just hope they show a bit of ambition and don't just stick to tiny villages. 

[Dave T]

Just now, Leonard said:

Were there ever any figures on the number of tickets cancelled after the delay?

I think Dutton has quoted 20% refunds or similar. But that will clearly have been based on a low number, and with another year to sell, it should have been recoverable. 

[londonrlfan]

10 minutes ago, Damien said:

I agree when it comes to profit, and I have made the point myself that it is not all about attendance. However, the thing is we could have had both. As I said previously you can get away with some of these prices for genuine marquee games like a semi-final at the Emirates, final at Old Trafford and even England games. You need to be a little more nuanced for the likes of Tonga v Cook Islands in a 34k stadium in Middlesbrough or as we have seen a New Zealand v Lebanon game in Warrington.

Middlesbrough is a poor choice imo. But when you've forced yourself to only play in a small corner of the country, there won't be many stadiums we could realistically use. 

[londonrlfan]

3 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Jamicia vs Ireland in a 15K stadium in London would have sold out or close to.  Gate would have been over 10K.

NZ I agree, but not Ireland. Loftus Road would've been perfect. 

[Archie Gordon]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure that should be the aim. 

Im pretty sure when games were awarded to Leeds and Warrington our aim wasn't 5 and 6k.

But, hopefully that is a low point, and after tonight we go better. 

I agree. I am just saying the accountants might be happy enough even if I'm not.

[Harry Stottle]

18 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Well, if you have to ask.....

Still waiting, you have made a statement I merely asked for your reasoning.

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, Dave T said:

 

Perception is a big challenge here. In reality, we had some low crowds last time, events that looked great, bustling, festivals often only had 6 to 9k in, so as a pure numbers game you can see how we can exceed 2013. 

But I think Dutton is including the additional 33 games in his calculations, because he likes to spin. 

I made this point on another thread yesterday when someone was already claiming how much the tournament had regressed since 2013. We had some very poorly attended games in 2013 too and a fair few sub 10k games with much cheaper tickets. It's important not to think that 2013 was the land of milk and honey.

As you say perception is a challenge and as I said previously the organisers need to work hard to get the narrative back here because I have seen a big swing in perception in less than 24 hours. I was willing to give the organisers the benefit of the doubt but there has been far too many shoddy and amateurish things so far about the whole game day experience and pre match build up. As you say the bustling festival atmosphere hasn't been there and people were complaining about Headingley yesterday doing nothing. Every national anthem has been poor and no singers at all games is just unforgivable. They have been charging premium prices and have simply not upheld their part in providing a premium experience. That needs to change.

[Number 16]

I watched the highlights of Scotland defeating West Indies in Hobart in cricket's T20 WC and there were more than a few empty seats in that stadium. 'Sparse' is the word I'd use.

Not every attendance at the women's football Euros were huge either. Nearly 600k attended the 31 games, but around half was for England's six matches.

Both these are of national sports in their respective host country, so maybe we should keep our performance in perspective.

[EssexRL]

11 minutes ago, crashmon said:

Jamicia vs Ireland in a 15K stadium in London would have sold out or close to.  Gate would have been over 10K.

I agree. There are enough people who are interested in the game to make a match like this work not just in London but (as we saw in 2013) in places like Bristol.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Number 16 said:

I watched the highlights of Scotland defeating West Indies in Hobart in cricket's T20 WC and there were more than a few empty seats in that stadium. 'Sparse' is the word I'd use.

Not every attendance at the women's football Euros were huge either. Nearly 600k attended the 31 games, but around half was for England's six matches.

Both these are of national sports in their respective host country, so maybe we should keep our performance in perspective.

My recollection was that a lot of those attendees were papered as well and didn't pay much. If we can approach that number but paying full price - that is a decent effort.