RLWC Attendance-O-Meter

[Leyther_Matt]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

I agree. While not to everyone's cup of tea the band adds to the atmosphere and big match feel. Even the band at Doncaster yesterday made a huge difference.

…and then ruined it by playing music at the highest level possible every time there was a break in play 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

I agree. While not to everyone's cup of tea the band adds to the atmosphere and big match feel. Even the band at Doncaster yesterday made a huge difference.

People moaning about no anthems and then complaining if there is a band.

 

The organisers can't win

[Gerrumonside ref]

1 minute ago, Leyther_Matt said:

…and then ruined it by playing music at the highest level possible every time there was a break in play 

There’s a happy medium to be struck for sure.

[redjonn]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

weekend v weeknight.. i'd say you'd get more on a weeknight to be honest.. (Friday night leeds corporate?)... but either way if you dont push it out to people, and a World Cup could appeal to a much wider audience, then yet again we are just asking for the same people to pay more money.. 

but we both admit that we dont really know how well it was pushed

yep agree on week night being best for corporate

[doc]

59 minutes ago, RL Tragic said:

I’m off to the one on Sunday, nice to here the stadium is good . What’s parking like . 

We parked at the ground, £6. Think there are three car parks.

[creditwhereitsdews]

The band at Doncaster last night were great. However the almost constant music played over the PA and stupid sounds and screeching announcer detracted from the action on the field. I hope they limit it for the next two games at Doncaster, or at least turn the volume down a bit. Took along a friend who is new to the game and he rightly said it trivialised what was going on on the field.

Edited October 18, 2022 by creditwhereitsdews

[Dave T]

1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

I am not sure whether this has been mentioned, but isn’t there an issue about the numbers for 2013, because you get into double header double counting or not territory. 

Compared with 2013, I would also note that we have 3 World Cups here, not just one.

And so, depending how the attendances for all 3 World Cups are calculated, we could well “beat” 2013. 

And, as an aside, I am sure someone will have pointed out that if we make more money through selling 1 £50 seat instead of 4 £10 seats, the whole game has more money which will all be channelled into the game. 

It is highly likely this will be the most successful world cup ever based on financials. Attracting the government investment up front was a great achievement, and we shouldn't forget that on top of the costs, £10m has been pumped into the UK grassroots on legacy projects. 

There is an awful lot to like and be proud of. But on the narrow, and rather important, subject of matchday atte dances, there is a lot of work to do yet. And as much as possible, we should compare like for like, accepting that a direct comparison is impossible. 

[Gomersall]

38 minutes ago, doc said:

We parked at the ground, £6. Think there are three car parks.

We were caught in traffic on the M18 and didn’t arrive until gone 7pm. I think we were one of the last to get in the car park next to the stadium although there was parking available at the football pitch adjacent to the stadium but there didn’t appear to be anyone controlling who was going in and wasn’t collecting any money as far as I could see. There was also a company car park asking for £5 a car just down the road from the stadium.

[ATLANTISMAN]

1 hour ago, RL Tragic said:

I’m off to the one on Sunday, nice to here the stadium is good . What’s parking like . 

I parked in the hotel and took a taxi whatever you do DONT BOOK A ROOM AT INNKEEPERS DONCASTER ITS A TOILET:(

[Northern Eel]

2 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Just bought two tickets for England vs France at Bolton.

Not cheap, but looking forward to it all the same now.

I think I’ve probably spent my budget for this World Cup now.

Would probably have liked to go to more, but hey, you can’t have everything.

Well done. Do you reckon you could resist it if England make the final? 

[Gerrumonside ref]

11 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

Well done. Do you reckon you could resist it if England make the final? 

Probably not haha!

[paulwalker71]

2 hours ago, GeordieSaint said:

Towns and cities were asked to out bids in to host games/camps etc. 

If Darlington (or Hartlepool) didn’t bid, they the stadiums can’t be used. The game is in Middlesbrough as the local council bid to host a match - probably paid for it. 

Yes, the Tees Valley (rather than Middlesbrough itself) bid for the game. And they have to take some responsibility for shifting tickets, one feels.

I live about 15 minutes drive from The Riverside but I haven't seen a whisper of publicity.

I dug up this from the local media

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/cook-islands-rugby-team-perform-25245344

They are saying that tickets have sold 'in their thousands', but I guess that could technically mean 2000

I assume that the reason we've got the Cook Islands is the James Cook connection. He grew up in the area! And if anyone gets injured in the game they'll be carted off to the James Cook Hospital in Middlesbrough.

Ben Houchen, the Mayor of Tees Valley comes across as a bit if publicity hog, so I expect he'll claim  the credit if its a success. We'll see....

I've got tickets and I'm looking forward to it

[Exiled Wiganer]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

It is highly likely this will be the most successful world cup ever based on financials. Attracting the government investment up front was a great achievement, and we shouldn't forget that on top of the costs, £10m has been pumped into the UK grassroots on legacy projects. 

There is an awful lot to like and be proud of. But on the narrow, and rather important, subject of matchday atte dances, there is a lot of work to do yet. And as much as possible, we should compare like for like, accepting that a direct comparison is impossible. 

Sure. I was just wondering how the like for like attendances were or are calculated. The 2013 World Cup opener attracted 45k, for a double header. Was that 90k or 22.5k each? So, did we match it or double it for a game against Samoa (which I am guessing is by far Samoa’s biggest attendance)? 

Moreover, if the World Cup has limited resources, or the same as focussed on the men’s only 14 team tournament with a super group thrown in 2013 tournament, and is looking to sell wheelchair and women’s tickets for the first time, then why not wait till we see the overall aggregate and then compare? 

Finally, all of this should be viewed through another filter. RLWC21 was all set to take place in 2021. That was cancelled with no notice, which lead to the RLWC21 team suffering huge numbers of people moving on, as their lives and careers had been built around a November 21 end date. They have had to put together a new team, hold up the morale of the old team, and organise vastly more games across 3 tournaments. While balancing income against prices. 

They will get stick on this thread, I assume, all day every day for the next 2 months. But, honestly, I think they’re genuine heroes. 

Edited October 18, 2022 by Exiled Wiganer

[RL Tragic]

1 hour ago, doc said:

We parked at the ground, £6. Think there are three car parks.

Thank you 

[Dave T]

1 minute ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

Sure. I was just wondering how the like for like attendances were or are calculated. The 2013 World Cup opener attracted 45k, for a double header. Was that 90k or 22.5k each? So, did we match it or double it for a game against Samoa (which I am guessing is by far Samoa’s biggest attendance)? 

Moreover, if the World Cup has limited resources, or the same as focussed on the men’s only 14 team tournament with a super group thrown in 2013 tournament, and is looking to sell wheelchair and women’s tickets for the first time, then why not wait till we see the overall aggregate and then compare? 

Finally, all of this should be viewed through another filter. RLWC21 was all set to take place in 2021. That was cancelled with no notice, which lead to the RLWC21 team suffering huge numbers of people moving on, as their lives and careers had been built around a November 21 end date. They have had to put together a new team, hold up the morale of the old team, and organise vastly more games across 3 tournaments. While balancing income against prices. 

They will get stick on this thread, I assume, all day every day for the next 2 months. But, honestly, I think they’re genuine heroes. 

For 2023, the total number is 458k, and that doesn't double count for the two large double headers.  The England v Samoa game is acknowledged as the biggest standalone opener, but was just a couple of thousand lower than the double header. 

Some of your points are fair regarding wait and see, but judgement can certainly be made on what has happened so far, which is very much a mixed bag. 

Personally, I'd have had no issues with the tournament looking the same as 2013, but with far higher revenues, but it is currently looking worse, and when people state their aims and miss them by a mile, then questions should be asked. 

It would be easy to blame fans, and blame the likes of me for being negative, but nobody was doing this in 2013. 

I am hopeful that this turns round, two decent nights today and tomorrow and we bring back the feelgood factor leading into another hopefully great England win on Saturday. And I think when the women and wheelchair tournaments start we have a great opportunity to create a further buzz around the event, so I am certainly not despondent, but I am fed up of what has been a fair few months of gaslighting and spin tbh, and the CEO of the tournament standing on stage and saying he's not bothering entertaining the fans because they will pay players instead. 

But, it is early days, so point taken, fingers crossed it's onwards and upwards. 

[FearTheVee]

3 minutes ago, Dave T said:

For 2023, the total number is 458k, and that doesn't double count for the two large double headers.  The England v Samoa game is acknowledged as the biggest standalone opener, but was just a couple of thousand lower than the double header. 

Some of your points are fair regarding wait and see, but judgement can certainly be made on what has happened so far, which is very much a mixed bag. 

Personally, I'd have had no issues with the tournament looking the same as 2013, but with far higher revenues, but it is currently looking worse, and when people state their aims and miss them by a mile, then questions should be asked. 

It would be easy to blame fans, and blame the likes of me for being negative, but nobody was doing this in 2013. 

I am hopeful that this turns round, two decent nights today and tomorrow and we bring back the feelgood factor leading into another hopefully great England win on Saturday. And I think when the women and wheelchair tournaments start we have a great opportunity to create a further buzz around the event, so I am certainly not despondent, but I am fed up of what has been a fair few months of gaslighting and spin tbh, and the CEO of the tournament standing on stage and saying he's not bothering entertaining the fans because they will pay players instead. 

But, it is early days, so point taken, fingers crossed it's onwards and upwards. 

To be fair the competition is happening slap bang in the middle of a cost of living crisis not 2013.  I think the organisers have acknowledged some of the pricing looks steep in this context and would change it but have committed to not discounting to protect the early buyers.

I consider myself very lucky financially but I am not doing as much with this WC as I otherwise would have done.

We are on the journey from bargain basement heavy discounting to trying to protect value and it’s not an easy journey. Lots of lessons to learn but progress being made I would say.

next time, when they say there are better discounts for buying early, I will believe them and that is a destination we needed to reach, not people hanging back waiting for Groupons.

Edited October 18, 2022 by FearTheVee

[paulwalker71]

3 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

 I think the organisers have acknowledged some of the pricing looks steep in this context and would change it but have committed to not discounting to protect the early buyers.

Is this really a massive consideration?

I bought my tickets full price - but I'd be happy if they gave 20K tickets away in Middlesbrough to fill The Riverside rather than having a couple of thousand of us rattling around for Cooks vs Tonga...

 

[Leyther_Matt]

3 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Is this really a massive consideration?

I bought my tickets full price - but I'd be happy if they gave 20K tickets away in Middlesbrough to fill The Riverside rather than having a couple of thousand of us rattling around for Cooks vs Tonga...

 

Tbf yes it’s been a massive issue in RL for over a decade now really, albeit probably something reflected more in people shelling out early for cup finals and the like rather than the tough sell group games such as the one at the Riverside. 

[Dr Tim Whatley]

5 minutes ago, paulwalker71 said:

Is this really a massive consideration?

I bought my tickets full price - but I'd be happy if they gave 20K tickets away in Middlesbrough to fill The Riverside rather than having a couple of thousand of us rattling around for Cooks vs Tonga...

 

Yeah, I can't speak for everyone, but I bought my tickets so long ago they're effectively a sunk cost and I'd have to look at the tickets to know how much each one cost me.

(Goes to drawer in lounge where the tickets are)

£25 for the Scotland v Australia game in Coventry on Friday. If they said tickets for the stand I'm in were now going for £10 in order to get a good crowd in, I wouldn't be remotely fussed.

[Exiled Wiganer]

20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

For 2023, the total number is 458k, and that doesn't double count for the two large double headers.  The England v Samoa game is acknowledged as the biggest standalone opener, but was just a couple of thousand lower than the double header. 

Some of your points are fair regarding wait and see, but judgement can certainly be made on what has happened so far, which is very much a mixed bag. 

Personally, I'd have had no issues with the tournament looking the same as 2013, but with far higher revenues, but it is currently looking worse, and when people state their aims and miss them by a mile, then questions should be asked. 

It would be easy to blame fans, and blame the likes of me for being negative, but nobody was doing this in 2013. 

I am hopeful that this turns round, two decent nights today and tomorrow and we bring back the feelgood factor leading into another hopefully great England win on Saturday. And I think when the women and wheelchair tournaments start we have a great opportunity to create a further buzz around the event, so I am certainly not despondent, but I am fed up of what has been a fair few months of gaslighting and spin tbh, and the CEO of the tournament standing on stage and saying he's not bothering entertaining the fans because they will pay players instead. 

But, it is early days, so point taken, fingers crossed it's onwards and upwards. 

Of course, everyone is entitled to comment, I wasn’t looking to shut down debate. And moreover, I should have made it clear that I appreciate that the vast majority of posters on here comment through their love of the game. Having reflected on this, and especially how 21 has had to pick itself up, my take is that they’ve done a heroic job. 

[Dave T]

4 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

To be fair the competition is happening slap bang in the middle of a cost of living crisis not 2013.  I think the organisers have acknowledged some of the pricing looks steep in this context and would change it but have committed to not discounting to protect the early buyers.

I consider myself very lucky financially but I am not doing as much with this WC as I otherwise would have done.

We are on the journey from bargain basement heavy discounting to trying to protect value and it’s not an easy journey. Lots of lessons to learn but progress being made I would say.

next time, when they say there are better discounts for buying early, I will believe them and that is a destination we needed to reach, not people hanging back waiting for Groupons.

I think they have become a little obsessed with the principle of not discounting. It displays a lack of flexibility and empathy. 

For example, the rules changed when the tournament was delayed, they could easily have relaunched the early bird discounts at that point (so still not bettering anything from previous early birds) and the decision to have multi-buy discounts as part of early bird only, and no family packages at all is just bizarre. To not bring any kind of early bird scheme back during the 12m delay period is odd. I think the decision not to use flash sales with a month to go is a welcome one.

They have plenty of sympathy from me around the cost of living crisis, but some of the fundamental decisions are just not good decisions in any environment.

Ignore the pricing on the below - it was 9 years ago and it is advertised as 'from', but there were packages to be bought galore. Go on this year's edition and you see squad trips where the website doesn't work properly, the hotels are extortionate (it's a white label site) - and the promise of packages for more towns and cities never materialised. Going through the RLWC2013 site also shows that the towns themselves were selling tickets in their outlets.

Rugby League World Cup 2013 (archive.org)

[Dave T]

17 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

Tbf yes it’s been a massive issue in RL for over a decade now really, albeit probably something reflected more in people shelling out early for cup finals and the like rather than the tough sell group games such as the one at the Riverside. 

I've always said I don't think this was ever as prevalent as it was sometimes made out, but it was definitely something that left a bad taste in some people's mouths. In reality, most games didn't have Groupons, as tbh, that would involve some marketing. The Challenge Cup Final was probably the biggest one on this, particularly around the Catalans final v Wire. 

Grand Finals have generally been fine. Magic is discounted anyway. Lesser internationals sometimes used them to get a crowd in versus France and Wales, but for the big games flash discounts haven't been that common. Look at the uproar this year at the Cup Final in Spurs where they got stick for the discount code, which was actually a private offer (poorly executed I should add!).

2013 was heavily discounted late on, but that has to be an indication that attracting 750k this time at full price was going to be hugely challenging.

The organisers of this tournament have gone to an extreme here, I definitely think scrapping flash sales is to be welcomed, but a complete lack of family packages, multi-buys, and the like is taking it to the extreme, particularly when coupled with substantial increases. 

It is great that England games look like they will do well, but imho, people spending more on those games, simply equates to not also spending at midweek games. 

[pahars]

The issue with the discounting was the stupid way they used to do it. About three weeks before an England game with 15k to shift they would slap it on groupon, issue discount codes etc and thousands of people who would have bought tickets anyway got them for next to nothing. 
 

Even though there was some slight tweaking at St James Park they in general held their nerve and were financially rewarded. 
 

As others have said the games in Cov and Boro are different: if you don’t discount they won’t sell and they’re far enough from the bulk of the other group games for it not to ###### those customers off. 

[N2022]

2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I've always said I don't think this was ever as prevalent as it was sometimes made out, but it was definitely something that left a bad taste in some people's mouths. In reality, most games didn't have Groupons, as tbh, that would involve some marketing. The Challenge Cup Final was probably the biggest one on this, particularly around the Catalans final v Wire. 

Grand Finals have generally been fine. Magic is discounted anyway. Lesser internationals sometimes used them to get a crowd in versus France and Wales, but for the big games flash discounts haven't been that common. Look at the uproar this year at the Cup Final in Spurs where they got stick for the discount code, which was actually a private offer (poorly executed I should add!).

2013 was heavily discounted late on, but that has to be an indication that attracting 750k this time at full price was going to be hugely challenging.

The organisers of this tournament have gone to an extreme here, I definitely think scrapping flash sales is to be welcomed, but a complete lack of family packages, multi-buys, and the like is taking it to the extreme, particularly when coupled with substantial increases. 

It is great that England games look like they will do well, but imho, people spending more on those games, simply equates to not also spending at midweek games. 

Family deals - or at least cheaper tickets for children from the off - would be welcome. Personally, I tend to watch sports live with my sons, and £25 or so for each of them seems a bit steep. I wouldn't begrudge others a slight discount late on if it meant more atmosphere in the ground or more youngsters getting to see the sport, but I would be miffed if they started doing half price on a bundle of tickets that cost me over a hundred pounds - just being honest about the feeling of 'why did I bother to commit early?'

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, N2022 said:

Family deals - or at least cheaper tickets for children from the off - would be welcome. Personally, I tend to watch sports live with my sons, and £25 or so for each of them seems a bit steep. I wouldn't begrudge others a slight discount late on if it meant more atmosphere in the ground or more youngsters getting to see the sport, but I would be miffed if they started doing half price on a bundle of tickets that cost me over a hundred pounds - just being honest about the feeling of 'why did I bother to commit early?'

I get that, and I'm 100% supportive of them not doing flash sales. That is what people have complained about, not decent packages being on sale from launch that are open to everyone. 

Even now, I agree we shouldn't be slashing prices, weve made our bed and have to see it through.