SL Clubs are deep in the red with huge losses

[Big Picture]

Latest Super League club accounts for 2021 show huge losses with only one making profit according to The Examiner which also says, "It's grim reading on the financial front for the game's top clubs."

So those of you think that Sean McGuire and I are wrong, read that and then tell me why we're wrong — if you can.

[Damien]

It's really weird to just completely ignore Covid. I'd say all things considered £10 million between 10 SL clubs is pretty good and it certainly compares well to other comparable sports.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Damien said:

It's really weird to just completely ignore Covid. I'd say all things considered £10 million between 10 SL clubs is pretty good and it certainly compares well to other comparable sports.

Its relatively not that bad, but unfortunately we have to be aware that RL clubs, and ultimately I think what BP is getting at, are vulnerable to relatively small sums. There generally isn't the money floating around.

[RigbyLuger]

How much of the debt is loans from directors who don't expect to ever get it back?

[whatmichaelsays]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

It's really weird to just completely ignore Covid. I'd say all things considered £10 million between 10 SL clubs is pretty good and it certainly compares well to other comparable sports.

Agreed. Whilst the accounts are interesting in and of themselves, taking a snapshot of a freak period isn't particularly helpful on judging the state of the game..

If you take a 3-5 year view, the narrative may be quite different..

[Tommygilf]

Just now, RigbyLuger said:

How much of the debt is loans from directors who don't expect to ever get it back?

Hudds is relatively massive in that regard, this report is mainly about operating losses however.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Twas ever thus.. Only really a problem if the club's Sugar Daddy owners cannot find a Million quid or so down the back of a sofa

[Josef K]

Full credit to Wakey for making a healthy profit. Well done the Trin. 

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, Josef K said:

Full credit to Wakey for making a healthy profit. Well done the Trin. 

Very tight ship being ran at Belle Vue

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Agreed. Whilst the accounts are interesting in and of themselves, taking a snapshot of a freak period isn't particularly helpful on judging the state of the game..

If you take a 3-5 year view, the narrative may be quite different..

A brief look of St Helens and Wigan's published accounts back to 2017 suggest that 6 figure operating losses are the norm for those clubs (assuming most of the rest are similar).

[Damien]

15 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Its relatively not that bad, but unfortunately we have to be aware that RL clubs, and ultimately I think what BP is getting at, are vulnerable to relatively small sums. There generally isn't the money floating around.

That's really not what he's getting at. It's just an excuse to use Covid losses to rabbit on about Sean McGuire and small northern towns. 

[Futtocks]

George Riley would be proud.

[whatmichaelsays]

11 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

A brief look of St Helens and Wigan's published accounts back to 2017 suggest that 6 figure operating losses are the norm for those clubs (assuming most of the rest are similar).

Wigan have lost money consistently on recent years. 

Regarding Saints, I think there has been something to do with measuring the value / depreciation of the stadium that has impacted what their accounts show, but I've neither the time nor inclination to look at it at this hour. 

But to take Leeds as an example, it's really no surprise that a club so exposed to the corporate and hospitality sector has seen a loss during a period where the hospitality sector (particularly the corporate side) has been one of the most acutely impacted industries (even more so than pro sport). It's a freak event that does not necessarily offer a true reflection of the business. 

[Tommygilf]

20 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Wigan have lost money consistently on recent years. 

Regarding Saints, I think there has been something to do with measuring the value / depreciation of the stadium that has impacted what their accounts show, but I've neither the time nor inclination to look at it at this hour. 

But to take Leeds as an example, it's really no surprise that a club so exposed to the corporate and hospitality sector has seen a loss during a period where the hospitality sector (particularly the corporate side) has been one of the most acutely impacted industries (even more so than pro sport). It's a freak event that does not necessarily offer a true reflection of the business. 

I think it depends as ever on whether those numbers are sustainable. Relatively they are tiny, but in RL land they seem middling to large. What sums sent Bradford into administration each time?

[Stanley30]

Makes a mockery of people wanting to increase the salary cap. 

Also, who the hell is Sean mcguire? 

[burnleywelsh]

27 minutes ago, Stanley30 said:

Makes a mockery of people wanting to increase the salary cap. 

Also, who the hell is Sean mcguire? 

Former St Helens Chief Executive…..saved the club from haemorrhaging money back in the early 2000’s.

[Stanley30]

6 hours ago, burnleywelsh said:

Former St Helens Chief Executive…..saved the club from haemorrhaging money back in the early 2000’s

Okay thanks. Still not sure of his relevance to the article, has he said somerhing recently? 

[Griff]

IMG will sort all this out.

[Ackroman]

14 minutes ago, Griff said:

IMG will sort all this out.

The shoe! The shoe!

[FearTheVee]

10 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

Wigan have lost money consistently on recent years. 

Regarding Saints, I think there has been something to do with measuring the value / depreciation of the stadium that has impacted what their accounts show, but I've neither the time nor inclination to look at it at this hour. 

But to take Leeds as an example, it's really no surprise that a club so exposed to the corporate and hospitality sector has seen a loss during a period where the hospitality sector (particularly the corporate side) has been one of the most acutely impacted industries (even more so than pro sport). It's a freak event that does not necessarily offer a true reflection of the business. 

Saints EBITDA losses (ignoring the huge depreciation charge which is non-cash) probably amount to about £1.5m in total across two Covid hit years.  I'm actually surprised that they are that small given stadium ownership - I believe that to be a very creditable performance indeed in the circumstances.

Saints will be back to in and around breakeven going forwards.

The lack of context in the article is frankly bizarre.

Edited December 14, 2022 by FearTheVee

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

How much of the debt is loans from directors who don't expect to ever get it back?

I can't imagine for one moment that will be IMG's mantra in enticing new money into the sport will it? albeit it is very true.

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Hudds is relatively massive in that regard, this report is mainly about operating losses however.

Losses are losses Tommy, long before anyone goes through the balance sheet with a fine tooth comb they firstly turn to the last page and the bottom line, then the back patting or finger pointing begins.

[Saint Toppy]

Most professional sports clubs run at a loss, its not that much of an issue as long as they have owners / directors who can cover those losses year on year.

The likes of Saints, Leeds, Wigan, Wire, Hudds all have wealthy owners & boards of directors capable of covering these losses, at least in the short term while everyone recovers from the Covid shutdowns and the current financial climate. I'd be more worried about the clubs without these wealthy owners who are making big losses and have to borrow money to survive

[Roughyed Rats]

No wonder IMG have been brought in. With the real threat of a large reduction or losing Sky revenue, there is a real risk that the game could end up reverting back to a part-time game in the northern hemisphere. Perhaps operating profit should be part of IMG's criteria for an A license.....but we all know it will be turnover as per last time around when licensing failed miserably. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Roughyed Rats

[Pulga]

Glad to see Wakefield got a good ROI on those recycled chairs.