IMG Grading Unveiled

[Angelic Cynic]

3 hours ago, steve oates said:

Neighbouring clubs colliding is the best strategy for crowds and TV..... Leigh, Bulls, Wire, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford, Hull, HKR Cas, Wakey, Widnes can and do (or have done) many big derby crowds 3 of the same a per season a t times.....

You cannot be suggesting they want a far and wide League? We do know nobody outside the M62 comes near to these clubs except Catalans......We know the top investing chairmen rub their hands in Derby days??

It is quite strange when you consider soccer,but do NOT compare and contrast the round ball game with rugby league,and find the cities have 2 clubs which occupy the followers of the sport.

Liverpool and Everton.Manchester - United and City.Birmingham and Aston Villa.

Nottingham - Forest and County etc.

Equally strange is that IMG are involved with Endeavour. A company under the Endeavour umbrella is One Sixty Over Ninety. Their slogan is...

Culture Over Everything.

Except if it involves heartlands rugby league clubs deprived of broadcast deal monies for decades.                                                                     https://www.160over90.com/

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

On 15/03/2023 at 14:47, Man of Kent said:

Every UK rugby league club ranked on IMG's new performance criteria

1 St Helens
2 Wigan Warriors
3 Catalans Dragons
4 Leeds Rhinos
5 Warrington Wolves
6 Huddersfield Giants
7 Castleford Tigers
8 Hull FC
9 Hull KR
10 Salford Red Devils
11 Wakefield Trinity
12 Toulouse Olympique
13 Leigh Leopards
14 Featherstone Rovers
15 Halifax Panthers
16 London Broncos
17 York Knights
18 Batley Bulldogs
19 Bradford Bulls
20 Sheffield Eagles
21 Widnes Vikings
22 Whitehaven
23 Barrow Raiders
24 Dewsbury Rams
25 Newcastle Thunder
26 Swinton Lions
27 Workington Town
28 Oldham
29 Rochdale Hornets
30 North Wales Crusaders
31 Doncaster
32 Keighley Cougars
33 Hunslet
34 Midlands Hurricanes
35 London Skolars
36 Cornwall

After today's announcement, I think you will see Oldham moving up this table.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

After today's announcement, I think you will see Oldham moving up this table.

Have they invented time travel?

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

52 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Have they invented time travel?

Been around since the big bang. Read hawking's a brief history of time. We all travel in time. My point was this table was based on the past. The future is we will be in a 13,500 seat stadium. By 2025, hopefully we'll be back in the championship. Our aim should be to be competing with proper RL teams like Fev and Halifax. 

Edited March 16, 2023 by The Art of Hand and Foot

[Wellsy4HullFC]

10 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

So its utterly pointless then given 'performance' is but one grading criteria

Well not completely pointless. Performance is still part of the criteria so it's interesting to see how much advantage some clubs will have over others.

Although I thought it was over the last 3 years, then it mentions how Keighley have been let down by their 2019 finish?

[Tommygilf]

26 minutes ago, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

Been around since the big bang. Read hawking's a brief history of time. We all travel in time. My point was this table was based on the past. The future is we will be in a 13,500 seat stadium. By 2025, hopefully we'll be back in the championship. Our aim should be to be competing with proper RL teams like Fev and Halifax. 

But that table specifically is about just on field results over the past 3 seasons...

[Angelic Cynic]

12 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Well not completely pointless. Performance is still part of the criteria so it's interesting to see how much advantage some clubs will have over others.

Although I thought it was over the last 3 years, then it mentions how Keighley have been let down by their 2019 finish?

The 2019 performance levels were good - as they started the season with a 12 points deduction.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/46994143

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

12 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Well not completely pointless. Performance is still part of the criteria so it's interesting to see how much advantage some clubs will have over others.

Although I thought it was over the last 3 years, then it mentions how Keighley have been let down by their 2019 finish?

Maybe there was something unusual about 2020....

[steve oates]

On 16/03/2023 at 10:06, Saint Toppy said:

It must have been written by a Cas fan, there's absolutely no way that Cas would make it to 7th. Poor ground, small crowds, small catchment area, very average on-field results, low turnover, poor academy set-up (as judged by the RFL). Hull, HKR & Salford should all be ahead of them.

Castleford – 8th

"Castleford’s average attendance came in at 7,542 at the Mend-A-Hose Jungle. Their highest came during the opening round with a sell-out crowd of 10,500 against Salford..........."

After watching them tip over Leeds last night in a thoroughly enjoyable contest, and as nearly all their meetings have been over the years what more do people want from the club.... Eight best supported club providing great on field entertainment year on year.

What's going to happen now? IMG note the town is tiny, and the the the seating is limited, so that's a C.

What then?  Boot them out??  Don't Donny play in a much bigger town, in an all seater modern stadium? Is that an A then?  Out go Cas and in go Donny

As for their academy, that is on the doorstep of Wakefield, and don't fev run an academy as well, all at a time far less kids are playing RL so it's understandable the academies are suffering, but is that any relevance to what Castleford provide to Superleague. 

[Tommygilf]

14 minutes ago, steve oates said:

Castleford – 8th

"Castleford’s average attendance came in at 7,542 at the Mend-A-Hose Jungle. Their highest came during the opening round with a sell-out crowd of 10,500 against Salford..........."

After watching them tip over Leeds last night in a thoroughly enjoyable contest, and as nearly all their meetings have been over the years what more do people want from the club.... Eight best supported club providing great on field entertainment year on year.

What's going to happen now? IMG note the town is tiny, and the the the seating is limited, so that's a C.

What then?  Boot them out??  Don't Donny play in a much bigger town, in an all seater modern stadium? Is that an A then?  Out go Cas and in go Donny

As for their academy, that is on the doorstep of Wakefield, and don't fev run an academy as well, all at a time far less kids are playing RL so it's understandable the academies are suffering, but is that any relevance to what Castleford provide to Superleague. 

There's so much wrong in this its unreal

[gingerjon]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

its unreal

That it is, that it is.

[guess who]

What will happen.

If the bottom two teams in sl. Have exactly the same points, across the broad, As the top two teams in the division below.

The the two teams in the lower division get promoted? 

[Liverpool Rover]

On 14/03/2023 at 18:34, GUBRATS said:

? , Yes , that's about the size of it " we want promotion and relegation decided purely by on field performance " , to be precise 

What do you want ?

Something like the NRL model where championship clubs can apply for Super League when they are ready or what IMG are proposing, so championship clubs aren't throwing all their money and gambling on short term success because they have to be promoted right now.

[GUBRATS]

2 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said:

Something like the NRL model where championship clubs can apply for Super League when they are ready or what IMG are proposing, so championship clubs aren't throwing all their money and gambling on short term success because they have to be promoted right now.

Said the fan of the club already in SL 

They'll never be ready , and won't have any money 

[Chrispmartha]

52 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Said the fan of the club already in SL 

They'll never be ready , and won't have any money 

If they’ll never be ready why is promoting them on the field a good idea?

[The Blues Ox]

2 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

If they’ll never be ready why is promoting them on the field a good idea?

Because they may be able to do a better job than some teams that have had large amounts of central funding year on year and would struggle in the championship if that money was taken away?

[Toby Chopra]

3 hours ago, Liverpool Rover said:

Something like the NRL model where championship clubs can apply for Super League when they are ready or what IMG are proposing, so championship clubs aren't throwing all their money and gambling on short term success because they have to be promoted right now.

The problem is there are clubs currently in Superleague that aren't really 'ready' for it. Or at least a single year outside superleague would show how 'unready' they are.

I'm all for a full on criteria based Superleague,but not one that locks in weak clubs. 

I'm now thinking we should go down to 10 in Superleague, and then expand from there with clubs that really earn it.

[Chrispmartha]

4 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

Because they may be able to do a better job than some teams that have had large amounts of central funding year on year and would struggle in the championship if that money was taken away?

Then those clubs you mention that would struggle in the champ might end up there with the grading.

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

The problem is there are clubs currently in Superleague that aren't really 'ready' for it. Or at least a single year outside superleague would show how 'unready' they are.

I'm all for a full on criteria based Superleague,but not one that locks in weak clubs. 

I'm now thinking we should go down to 10 in Superleague, and then expand from there with clubs that really earn it.

But isn’t that the point of grading? Just leaving it up to onfield results has ended up with the clubs you are talking about in SL

[ELBOWSEYE]

Do promotions work, they probably have a 90 % failure rate. Just having a system based on simple premis of winning the league below is flawed in our sport, not enough available players to stay up unless the relegated team keep full-time or as leigh have done is gamble early. The IMG way may give team's a chance of staying in the top division. 

[Archie Gordon]

1 hour ago, Toby Chopra said:

The problem is there are clubs currently in Superleague that aren't really 'ready' for it. Or at least a single year outside superleague would show how 'unready' they are.

I'm all for a full on criteria based Superleague,but not one that locks in weak clubs. 

I'm now thinking we should go down to 10 in Superleague, and then expand from there with clubs that really earn it.

Indeed. The clear blue water in gradings won't be between 12th and 13th, it'll probably be somewhere like 6th to 7th.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

8 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

Maybe there was something unusual about 2020....

Forgot the lower leagues never played!

[Toby Chopra]

1 hour ago, Chrispmartha said:

But isn’t that the point of grading? Just leaving it up to onfield results has ended up with the clubs you are talking about in SL

Done right, that would be fine. But the concern some of us have is that the criteria seems to favour those very same clubs - for no good reason -  and makes the bar even higher for the Yorks and Fevs of this world. For me that isn't incentivising the development we want, it'll just put it off.

Now, there's still a lot of gaps in what we know about how the criteria will be scored, and it's still only a draft plan, so perhaps things will change.

As a previous poster said, we know where the real dividing line is - it's around 6 or 7 - so maybe the problem is 12 is just too many for the first iteration of the new order.

 

[Chrispmartha]

1 minute ago, Toby Chopra said:

Done right, that would be fine. But the concern some of us have is that the criteria seems to favour those very same clubs - for no good reason -  and makes the bar even higher for the Yorks and Fevs of this world. For me that isn't incentivising the development we want, it'll just put it off.

Now, there's still a lot of gaps in what we know about how the criteria will be scored, and it's still only a draft plan, so perhaps things will change.

As a previous poster said, we know where the real dividing line is - it's around 6 or 7 - so maybe the problem is 12 is just too many for the first iteration of the new order.

 

How does the criteria favour a club like wakefield for example?

[Archie Gordon]

1 hour ago, ELBOWSEYE said:

Do promotions work, they probably have a 90 % failure rate. Just having a system based on simple premis of winning the league below is flawed in our sport, not enough available players to stay up unless the relegated team keep full-time or as leigh have done is gamble early. The IMG way may give team's a chance of staying in the top division. 

The IMG way seems the same - come up but with a pretty similar chance of going straight back down. There's no security built in.