Fri 5th Apr: SL: Leeds Rhinos v Warrington Wolves KO 20:00 (Sky)

[GeordieSaint]

4 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

The reason clubs have dynasties whether that’s Wigan Saints Bradford or Leeds. Is because the have a core group of players who set the standard of what’s expected at those clubs. Who are the current leaders at Leeds doing this I really don’t see them. 

Leadership… don’t see any real leaders in that Leeds team.

[Harry Stottle]

10 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Is it his team or is it not his team this week I can't keep up??

Doubtless its the refs fault anyway...

If he were a cat Tommy, how many of his 9 lives do you reckon would be remaining?

Leeds were completely and utterly outclassed last night all across the park, I said a while ago and got slated for it that the two recruits acquired from Salford are not performing under Smith anywhere near how excellent they were under Rowley, they are the same player's it is the approach and game plans that do not suit them, if they returned to Salford next week we would see them perform so differently with supposedly inferior players to their new teammates.

Thoughts please.

[Harry Stottle]

38 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

The reason clubs have dynasties whether that’s Wigan Saints Bradford or Leeds. Is because the have a core group of players who set the standard of what’s expected at those clubs. Who are the current leaders at Leeds doing this I really don’t see them. 

Precisely Bob, no more evident than my club this compared to last season.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

Impressed by Warrington, albeit that Leeds were a bit of a shambles. I'm wondering if Leeds's problem is that Gary Hetherington's been there too long and what the club needs is to refresh the administration.

[redjonn]

11 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Is it his team or is it not his team this week I can't keep up??

Doubtless its the refs fault anyway...

watched his press conference and he seemed honest enough to me that Leeds didn't perform, Warrington much better, even when Leeds managed to get closer on the points just after half time, etc etc, even if the double movement try was given and score even closer that Warrington always looked better team.    So he didn't blame ref.

Of course he will be under pressure, the performances have not been good enough and though they play really well at times its normally a poor half followed by a really good half... and to be honest even if all games had been won he would be under pressure by many Leeds fans,,,

[sentoffagain2]

        Warrington look to be getting a bit of steel and were far too good for an erratic      Leeds.Fine with the Leeds try being disallowed for double movement.But it was a different decision when the Leeds winger was tackled ball carrying arm on the floor and momentum stopped.The defenders then rolled him over into touch and that was allowed.Couldn't understand SKY Bets odds on the game  8/11 Leeds  6/5 Warrington as i made Warrington slight favourites but don't bet on games as i spoils my view of things.

[Barry Badrinath]

7 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

        Warrington look to be getting a bit of steel and were far too good for an erratic      Leeds.Fine with the Leeds try being disallowed for double movement.But it was a different decision when the Leeds winger was tackled ball carrying arm on the floor and momentum stopped.The defenders then rolled him over into touch and that was allowed.Couldn't understand SKY Bets odds on the game  8/11 Leeds  6/5 Warrington as i made Warrington slight favourites but don't bet on games as i spoils my view of things.

That always happens, Ashton the og tackler was still moving and rolling him, he would have gone in touch anyway

[redjonn]

10 hours ago, bobbruce said:

Funny how Croft and Ackers were great at Salford the other way it’s noticable MacDonald seems to be playing much better now he’s at Salford too. 

Nene MacDonald played well at Leeds, in fact he was excellent most of the times he played at Leeds... So I don't think the Nene comment is relevant.

Croft is not playing so well, but then I only occasionally watched Salford so can get a wrong impression if I only watched on his good days.

Did Croft play deeper at Salford as at Leeds when he receives he is immediately under tackle pressure and doesn't seem to have the time nor space.   Leeds seem to play quite a flat line.

[DoubleD]

9 hours ago, bobbruce said:

Funny how Croft and Ackers were great at Salford the other way it’s noticable MacDonald seems to be playing much better now he’s at Salford too. 

Ackers really had one stand out year, he’s been a good pro beyond that, who was never considered for international honours in other seasons. Sneyd pulled all the strings at Salford - that much is clear in 2024. Croft was allowed to do his thing. When he’s required to take responsibility he struggles. 

MacDonald was one of Leeds best players when he played last year 

I’m absolutely not saying the coach isn’t at fault, I question some aspects of that myself but the reality is Leeds are no better than a 5/6th placed team on paper 

[redjonn]

9 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

        Warrington look to be getting a bit of steel and were far too good for an erratic      Leeds.Fine with the Leeds try being disallowed for double movement.But it was a different decision when the Leeds winger was tackled ball carrying arm on the floor and momentum stopped.The defenders then rolled him over into touch and that was allowed.Couldn't understand SKY Bets odds on the game  8/11 Leeds  6/5 Warrington as i made Warrington slight favourites but don't bet on games as i spoils my view of things.

One that amused me more was when x3 Warrington players lifted the Leeds winger off the ground and carried him a number of steps, into touch. and then dropped him... must admit I didn't think you could lift and carry a player.... it was quite amusing

[sentoffagain2]

Just now, redjonn said:

One that amused me more was when x3 Warrington players lifted the Leeds winger off the ground and carried him a number of steps, into touch. and then dropped him... must admit I didn't think you could lift and carry a player.... it was quite amusing

   Yes always thought when both feet are lifted off the ground it is a penalty.

[bobbruce]

14 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

   Yes always thought when both feet are lifted off the ground it is a penalty.

Never been a penalty but the ref should shout held. If you are close to the touch line you can get the player moving before the ref has chance to shout it. 

[redjonn]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

If he were a cat Tommy, how many of his 9 lives do you reckon would be remaining?

Leeds were completely and utterly outclassed last night all across the park, I said a while ago and got slated for it that the two recruits acquired from Salford are not performing under Smith anywhere near how excellent they were under Rowley, they are the same player's it is the approach and game plans that do not suit them, if they returned to Salford next week we would see them perform so differently with supposedly inferior players to their new teammates.

Thoughts please.

don't know about the game plan or approach...

simply Leeds were dominated up front... Warrington forwards were just more powerful. stronger and out muscled Leeds equivalent... Leeds struggled to make yards and were kicking from deep. That has been a constant last couple of years. They don't have the same physicality of the top 4 clubs, which would seem to be a recruitment philosophy in the type of forwards they sign.   

Nowadays and taking Warringtons Curry as an example he is both a strong and powerful runner but also quite agile.  Leeds seem to to have the agility in the forwards but are comparably lightweight hence not the equivalent power.

[DoubleD]

Leeds ongoing issue is succession planning and squad management. They missed out on good players like Fitzgibbon and end up with Frawley and Momorovski.
Frequently they end up with short term desperate buys with no logic as to how they will integrate into the team or style of play. Hence we have no distinctive style of play and are a team of individuals without leadership. And the culture suffers as a consequence. Smith was brought in to address that but it doesn’t appear to be working. The issues lie higher up in my view though and requires a complete overhaul 

[sheddingswasus]

How many good coaches and managers have Leeds gone through?  The answer lies not with these coaches but with the man upstairs. This is the common denominator to Leeds recent failures 

[sheddingswasus]

Warrington are playing like a team properly for the first time in ages. It is likely the structure in place through Sam Burgess. 

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, sheddingswasus said:

How many good coaches and managers have Leeds gone through?  The answer lies not with these coaches but with the man upstairs. This is the common denominator to Leeds recent failures 

Not many.

McDermott was there for 7 years and had great success before things went wrong.

Agar hasn't ever proven himself as a good head coach and has always had his knockers.

Smith came from the Queensland Cup and was hardly a success with Bradford in the Championship. 

So what happened with McDermott has been seen across sports in that a coach perhaps stays on too long and a successful team becomes stale and declines. For his first few years he was certainly well thought of.

However the appointments of Agar and Smith were just asking for trouble in my opinion and were not the men Leeds needed. They very much seemed like a cheap option. Neither have shown any sort of pedigree to be head coach of a club like Leeds.

[Nothus]

obviously losing Holroyd and Handley won't have helped, but I think there's still a bit of expectation vs reality going on at Leeds. They expect greatness because of what's been and gone before, but the reality is that players like Smith, Holroyd, Goudemand etc aren't the best in the league in their position. I expect Leeds to finish anywhere from 5th downwards and I'd say that's probably fair when you look at the quality of their squad.

Fans are always going to call for the coach's head but they've gone through a few head coaches now without much success. What could the greatest RL coach there is get out of this squad?

[LeeF]

53 minutes ago, Nothus said:

obviously losing Holroyd and Handley won't have helped, but I think there's still a bit of expectation vs reality going on at Leeds. They expect greatness because of what's been and gone before, but the reality is that players like Smith, Holroyd, Goudemand etc aren't the best in the league in their position. I expect Leeds to finish anywhere from 5th downwards and I'd say that's probably fair when you look at the quality of their squad.

Fans are always going to call for the coach's head but they've gone through a few head coaches now without much success. What could the greatest RL coach there is get out of this squad?

A hell of a lot more than Smith is currently. In fact a half decent Head Coach would probably get more

[Damien]

44 minutes ago, LeeF said:

A hell of a lot more than Smith is currently. In fact a half decent Head Coach would probably get more

I don't really get the narrative from Leeds fans that this is now an average mid table squad. Before the season started Leeds fans were saying it was their best squad in years and would make them challengers again.

[LeeF]

38 minutes ago, Damien said:

I don't really get the narrative from Leeds fans that this is now an average mid table squad. Before the season started Leeds fans were saying it was their best squad in years and would make them challengers again.

They are definitely producing less than the individual parts of the squad should produce. Smith’s tactics seem strange. Passive defence. Unstructured attack. A general air of not being bothered. 

This is Smith’s squad and they aren’t delivering or, if being honest, aren’t coming close to delivering. 

[DoubleD]

58 minutes ago, Damien said:

I don't really get the narrative from Leeds fans that this is now an average mid table squad. Before the season started Leeds fans were saying it was their best squad in years and would make them challengers again.

Knowledgeable ones weren’t. 

Momorovski and Frawley were terrible signings, ordinary players. Roberts couldn’t get in Leigh’s side, McDonnell was released by Wigan. The squad is a mish mash of good and ordinary players,  a totally new spine. We’ll be better than last year but our results are as expected 

[M j M]

4 hours ago, sheddingswasus said:

How many good coaches and managers have Leeds gone through?  The answer lies not with these coaches but with the man upstairs. This is the common denominator to Leeds recent failures 

 

5 hours ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

Impressed by Warrington, albeit that Leeds were a bit of a shambles. I'm wondering if Leeds's problem is that Gary Hetherington's been there too long and what the club needs is to refresh the administration.

Nah, this is the sort of argument the muppet element of Leeds fanbase come up with. Hetherington's role is to provide the business which enables the head coach to spend full+ salary cap. He more than does that and removing him is not going to help anyone, and nor is it going to happen.

Edited April 6 by M j M

[redjonn]

25 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

Knowledgeable ones weren’t. 

Mohorovici and Frawley were terrible signings, ordinary players. Roberts couldn’t get in Leigh’s side, McDonnell was released by Wigan. The squad is a mish mash of good and ordinary players,  a totally new spine. We’ll be better than last year but our results are as expected 

I think results are as expected as well as being inconsistent at the moment, as again expected.

Roberts has been good cover for injured Futsitu'a and I would expect him to not be first choice when no injuries, whilst McDonnell in my view has been a good signing. he played well last year - a typical solid SL player.. 

The spine isn't functioning as well as one would have expected but then again the problem is more the forwards. Leeds struggle to make yards and kicking from deep doesn't help Brodie and Ackers to shine. 

Frawley field kicking has been poor plus not strong enough boot, as a simple example to make most of penalties. He barely makes yards from those kicks.

Mohorovici when he gets a decent run at centre rather than having to cover wing I think will be decent enough. 

Imho as said above if we have forwards that struggle non of the backs will shine but a decent strong field kicker would help get them out of a pickle.  At least recognise when an early kick is needed plus maybe a more aggressive defence that may limit opposition yardage.

Oh a better full back that joins the attacking line more frequently may also help Croft... they miss Myler despite Miller flatting to deceive.

Edited April 6 by redjonn

[Tommygilf]

6 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

If he were a cat Tommy, how many of his 9 lives do you reckon would be remaining?

Leeds were completely and utterly outclassed last night all across the park, I said a while ago and got slated for it that the two recruits acquired from Salford are not performing under Smith anywhere near how excellent they were under Rowley, they are the same player's it is the approach and game plans that do not suit them, if they returned to Salford next week we would see them perform so differently with supposedly inferior players to their new teammates.

Thoughts please.

I've said I'd have got rid last season mate.

The problems of this season are almost exactly the same as last year. We have a clueless attack, our defensive line invites pressure on, and if you mess with the ruck to slow us down it exacerbates everything we can't do.

Two preseasons should be enough for any coach to get his ideas and culture bedded down imo. The performances just aren't (consistently) good enough.