Applications to League 1 Open

[Tommygilf]

What is often not spoken about that has hit League 1 hard is the taking of 2 top teams from that division by the Championship.

Taking 2 bigger clubs out reduces interest, crowds and the size of the league as a whole. 

This shouldn't be looked at as a League 1 issue IMO, it should be a Part Time RL issue. Certainly the C's and Lower B's in the IMG grading criteria together.

[overtheborder]

15 hours ago, LeytherRob said:

That's generally how we've always operated and except for Catalans which we're really an expansion club, all have failed. See Gateshead Thunder, Sheffield Mk1, Toronto Wolfpack, Paris Saint Germain, Celtic Crusaders. It's a shortcut that always fails because the clubs are built on foundations of sand. Sheffield Mk2 are a better example of 'expansion' done right, building at a slower pace but even that has had to be underpinned significantly by a generous benefactor. The trick is to get the right environment that can attract those types, but also enough to survive for the clubs without. 

 

We won't ever get true expansion until we start doing the hard yards and start thinking about where the game should be in 25, 50 years down the line and not where we want it in 3 or 4 years time. Clubs like Midlands, Newcastle, Cornwall aren't going to just take off overnight - they need years, even decades of work to develop the surrounding infrastructure to thrive. Since the RFL is generally too impotent to actually make the decisions to assign the money properly and the small pot we do have is controlled by the clubs at the top of the pyramid, the best way at this point would be to appeal to the their selfish nature - For example you could give a trade off to clubs for salary cap dispensations in exchange for funding of development officers in targeted regions, or even IMG points for any extra curricular development of the wider game. 

Great points made there - I'd forgot about a lot of those in fairness, and completely agree in terms of looking decades down the line - when you look at the likes of Wigan, St Helens, Leeds, Hull - the places where we've traditionally had strong clubs, there seems to be a solid amateur/youth game.

Only question for me on developing the game in other areas as you described would be what's to stop the bigger clubs poaching all the talent from those areas? Thus what happens in practice may be that the catchment area expands for the biggest clubs at the expense of everyone else.

[LeytherRob]

7 minutes ago, overtheborder said:

Great points made there - I'd forgot about a lot of those in fairness, and completely agree in terms of looking decades down the line - when you look at the likes of Wigan, St Helens, Leeds, Hull - the places where we've traditionally had strong clubs, there seems to be a solid amateur/youth game.

Only question for me on developing the game in other areas as you described would be what's to stop the bigger clubs poaching all the talent from those areas? Thus what happens in practice may be that the catchment area expands for the biggest clubs at the expense of everyone else.

To be honest, that's  what we want in the short/medium term because it gets a pathway going for newer areas without the risk of throwing a club to the top of the pyramid before it's ready. The more players from a developing area move to big clubs and play SL rugby, the more the players that follow have to aspire to until the pro clubs in their area can develop to a level that matches their ambition. 

 

[LeytherRob]

14 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

What is often not spoken about that has hit League 1 hard is the taking of 2 top teams from that division by the Championship.

Taking 2 bigger clubs out reduces interest, crowds and the size of the league as a whole. 

This shouldn't be looked at as a League 1 issue IMO, it should be a Part Time RL issue. Certainly the C's and Lower B's in the IMG grading criteria together.

Weren't they looking at dropping the Championship back down to 12 in the coming seasons over a transitional period?

Long term i think they need to start putting plans in place now to have League 1 be a North/South split feeding into a national championship, the same way they have with the Womens game, but it will need new clubs in both north and south and sufficient funding at a realistic level to let them function without having to have a string of benefactors.  

[Archie Gordon]

31 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

Weren't they looking at dropping the Championship back down to 12 in the coming seasons over a transitional period?

...

Yes. From 2026, each of SL, Champ and L1 will have 12 teams. This call us for the 12th team in L1.

[del capo]

2 hours ago, Archie Gordon said:

Yes. From 2026, each of SL, Champ and L1 will have 12 teams. This call us for the 12th team in L1.

Correct. 

But that assumes all current  Championship but especially League 1 sides will make it to January 2026 without central support / intervention..........

[Wakefield Ram]

On 18/05/2024 at 09:36, sam4731 said:

I think whoever it is is going to have to be self sufficient. League 1 clubs and for that matter Championship clubs just can't rely on central funding anymore.

Neither can most SL clubs who'd be bust without it. 

[The Future is League]

Knowing the way that the RFL operates nowadays any new teams outside the M62 corridor will be expected to pay the costs of visiting teams.

[headtackle]

Would be interesting if one of the big Southern RU clubs submitted an application

Bath, Gloucester, Bristol, Exeter ?

OK they would be starting at the bottom but from their point of view a handy outlet to blood or try out fringe Union players. If they were successful and made it to the Championship or SL full year revenue and shared costs.

 

[Liverpool Rover]

Who would want to apply. Anyone in the heartlands would have clubs complaining about muscling in on their fan base. Anyone outside the heartlands would have clubs complaining about the travelling.

[The Future is League]

On 26/05/2024 at 05:48, headtackle said:

Would be interesting if one of the big Southern RU clubs submitted an application

Bath, Gloucester, Bristol, Exeter ?

OK they would be starting at the bottom but from their point of view a handy outlet to blood or try out fringe Union players. If they were successful and made it to the Championship or SL full year revenue and shared costs.

 

They would be fools if they did.

[sam4731]

On 21/05/2024 at 11:51, LeytherRob said:

Weren't they looking at dropping the Championship back down to 12 in the coming seasons over a transitional period?

Long term i think they need to start putting plans in place now to have League 1 be a North/South split feeding into a national championship, the same way they have with the Womens game, but it will need new clubs in both north and south and sufficient funding at a realistic level to let them function without having to have a string of benefactors.  

The problem with a north/south split is that it only works if a south team never gets promoted. If you have a south team promoted and a North team relegated, you end up having to redraw the boundaries so that anything south of Leeds is classed as the South to redress the balance in numbers.

[headtackle]

8 hours ago, The Future is League said:

They would be fools if they did.

Year 1 - would not take a great deal of investment to get promotion and agree if got stuck in there would not be good

Once in the Championship much harder but Toronto showed how to do it

As a punt, a year or two in the lower leagues finding your feet then hopefully make it to the SL funding - might be worth a go

Depending who it was a club with decent facilities, branding and catchment area would be ok on the IMG scale

At worst as I said originally a good opportunity to blood fringe players, share costs across two clubs and generate year round revenue. 

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

The Yorkshire Post is reporting that Goole Vikings have submitted, or are planning to submit, an expression of interest to join League 1.

[Tommygilf]

5 hours ago, sam4731 said:

The problem with a north/south split is that it only works if a south team never gets promoted. If you have a south team promoted and a North team relegated, you end up having to redraw the boundaries so that anything south of Leeds is classed as the South to redress the balance in numbers.

In football, Oxford City were promoted from NL South to the National League then relegated this year to NL North. It happens!

[Spidey]

Goole Vikings

[Yorks Tim]

49 minutes ago, headtackle said:

Year 1 - would not take a great deal of investment to get promotion and agree if got stuck in there would not be good

Once in the Championship much harder but Toronto showed how to do it

As a punt, a year or two in the lower leagues finding your feet then hopefully make it to the SL funding - might be worth a go

Depending who it was a club with decent facilities, branding and catchment area would be ok on the IMG scale

At worst as I said originally a good opportunity to blood fringe players, share costs across two clubs and generate year round revenue. 

We had a dozen or so posters on here saying that Cornwall would be in the Championship by now after they entered League 1. They're progressing well on the field and have solid backing but expecting new teams to walk their way thorugh the 3rd tier in a couple of seasons is unrealistic.

[JM2010]

30 minutes ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

The Yorkshire Post is reporting that Goole Vikings have submitted, or are planning to submit, an expression of interest to join League 1.

Good luck to any club that enters League 1. My only concern would be that if Goole Vikings get in would that then take away a community club in that town or would they keep a Goole team plus juniors in the community game? 
For me, any club that enters the professional ranks shouldn’t be at the expense of the community game but should help expand the community game in their local area

Edited May 27 by JM2010

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Yorks Tim said:

We had a dozen or so posters on here saying that Cornwall would be in the Championship by now after they entered League 1. They're progressing well on the field and have solid backing but expecting new teams to walk their way thorugh the 3rd tier in a couple of seasons is unrealistic.

I don't recall anyone saying that. They got a team together at short notice and were signing students, local RU players and having trials. They certainly haven't splashed the cash on players.

Edited May 27 by Damien

[Wellsy4HullFC]

5 minutes ago, JM2010 said:

Good luck to any club that enters League 1. My only concern would be that if Goole Vikings get in would that then take away a community club in that town or would they keep a Goole team plus juniors in the community game? 
For me, any club that enters the professional ranks shouldn’t be at the expense of the community game but should help expand the community game in their local area

I would imagine this would be in addition to, rather than in replacement of. It's not like they'll just be promoting the same squad! They'll need an entire new set of players so no reason to get rid of the amateur team they already have.

[JM2010]

3 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I would imagine this would be in addition to, rather than in replacement of. It's not like they'll just be promoting the same squad! They'll need an entire new set of players so no reason to get rid of the amateur team they already have.

I hope not. They could just become a professional club and sign a new team with the community club not existing anymore. Hopefully this won’t happen 

[sam4731]

36 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

In football, Oxford City were promoted from NL South to the National League then relegated this year to NL North. It happens!

Finances are a hot topic as it is. Throw in asking a Northern team to travel down south every other week when they're meant to benefitting financially from being in a regional league would cause all sorts of arguments. Also having a Northern team in a southern league would just make it horribly uncompetitive.

[LeytherRob]

59 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

Finances are a hot topic as it is. Throw in asking a Northern team to travel down south every other week when they're meant to benefitting financially from being in a regional league would cause all sorts of arguments. Also having a Northern team in a southern league would just make it horribly uncompetitive.

No different to the travel Cornwall have to do every other week now. As for finances, SL clubs need to make sure sufficient funding is trickling down if they want league 1 to continue. 

[Anita Bath]

7 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

No different to the travel Cornwall have to do every other week now. As for finances, SL clubs need to make sure sufficient funding is trickling down if they want league 1 to continue. 

Thats a very big ‘IF’

[sam4731]

31 minutes ago, LeytherRob said:

No different to the travel Cornwall have to do every other week now. As for finances, SL clubs need to make sure sufficient funding is trickling down if they want league 1 to continue. 

Yes but let's face it, the RFL don't really care whether Cornwall survive or not.