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Just a few words to clarify our position on what we allow and don't allow in terms of criticising referees in match threads (and in general) on here, as moderating these threads is becoming a real pain in the backside. If someone says 'I think the ref got that wrong' or some (polite) variation on that theme, that's fine, it's just part of a natural discussion on any sporting contest. Trying to prevent anyone saying as much is like trying to stop the tide coming in. It's an opinion, and refs will occasionally get stuff wrong, because they are human beings, like the players who make mistakes on the pitch too, and like fans who get loads of stuff wrong all the time because they don't know the rules as well as they think they do or half as well as the referees they are criticising. Where it crosses the line for us, and what we won't allow, is when referees are accused of cheating or corruption, or where people start posting gratuitous personal insults aimed at referees. In these cases, we are more likely to remove the entire post, rather that just fillet out the referee-bashing, and possibly even bar you from posting again for a while. Please bear this in mind next time you contribute to a match thread, or any part of these forums, and it will be a much more pleasant and enlightening experience for all of us. Thank you.

I think a key thing here is to step back, stop going off one frame pictures (picked to suit either argument) or super slowed down footage. Watch it at full speed, as it happened. 12,000+ people watched it live and nobody was in any sort of uproar. The commentary team praised it as committed defence, and even though the Paasi one was right in front of the Saints fans there didn't seem to be any outrage during the game. Watch the clips, the whole clips in full speed as they happened live and it gives a clear picture to me. Desperate defending, putting your body on the line to try and win a massive game and lead your team to Wembley. MRP agrees and the witch hunt from Saints and Wellens is completely unwarranted.

Which tackle injured LMS? He went off at half time, with an apparent quad injury and Asiata was taken off after 25 minutes. On the Paasi one, I still think the main facts are, he hits the attackers thigh with his shoulder, and wraps his arm around, but the knee is then twisted because there's also a tackle in the opposite direction. That was the view of the MRP, and also a former referee or two on social media. For balance, Silverwood does question the Walmsley tackle, though questions will also be asked about how bad the injury might've been had he not been sent back on. No idea which tackle injured Knowles. If the RFL are reviewing tackling techniques and the regulations then great. But I hope they also consider the knock on effects of them. As for Wellens, I think some of his comments are irresponsible, almost suggesting that defenders should dive at attackers knees, despite that fact that is not what actually happened on Saturday. In fact, the end result of tackling the legs is most likely to be a quick play the ball. So I can't see coaches encouraging it. And his whatabouttery on the Knowles / medical reports shows a complete ignorance to the process and the rulings.

I'm honestly and genuinely struggling to see what the outrage is about. It's obviously unfortunate that any player gets injured but I don't see where it can be shown that he performed a reckless act with the intention of hurting somebody. It just looked like a tackle in a RL game that if nobody had been injured, we'd never have heard about it. That's genuinely how I see it.

Of note in this debate is there is a fairly broad mix of supporters of other clubs not particularly keen on Asiata’s tackling technique stating as such on this forum, as well as a broad mix of folk who disagree. A similar debate is playing out elsewhere on social media, and it certainly is in my friendship group, which includes ex-pros in both codes. So the idea this is some sort of Saints witch-hunt is a silly; we’ve just been on the receiving end of the injuries hence the outspoken comments from Wellens. I still absolutely think there is no malice in Asiata’s actions, particularly with the Paasi tackle which is out of desperation rather than anything else. But his technique is awful from a recklessness and duty of care perspective so I don’t think we will have heard the last of this, particularly if it happens again. My final point remains well done to Leigh. The best team won on the day and they are deservedly in the final. I look forward to watching the final.

Americans love contact sports and they have a gap in the NFL season that fits in well with the English RL season, so each NFL franchise should buy a rugby league club and it would be shown extensively on US tv. Games would have to be played very late at night in the UK to reach their evening tv audience but the income would be phenomenal. Some clubs would have a natural home, eg Dewsbury / LA Rams, Huddersfield / New York Giants, Widnes / Minnesota Vikings etc, while others would just need a tweak such as the Castleford / Cincinnati Bengals and St Helens / New Orleans Saints. Some teams would need complete name changes but there would be fabulous marketing opportunities such as the Newcastle Browns. What do you think?

Valkyrie have just signed Carrie Roberts, the ex Saints and GB centre, great signing for the club.

Only if it's the right player long term, don't need fixups for this season

As it happens I do sort of agree with Wellens but Im sure there’s loads of instances of saints players doing the same, also when his club were getting players off in technicalities of the MRP system he wasn’t as vocal about okayer safety.

Yep, sometimes clubs put up feeds on YouTube with no comms but just the officials' audio and the dialogue is constant (and as Gav intimates the TJs are sometimes overruled ). As Gav says that's why we hardly ever see the TJ running on with his flag raised to indicate foul play any more...they just tell the ref, as they're miked up. I think spectators might be surprised at how many forward passes and offside decisions are touch judge-led rather than being solely the ref's call. Also players tend to get warnings in game if the TJ informed they were straying offside but they didn't interfere with play.

I think you should rest a few with a Wembley debut not far away, play some fringe players and give Fev a chance!

This WAS a match thread. Sadly, it's descended into 'my club's bigger than your club, wah wah wah' so I've just binned off the last page of garbage (I haven't the patience to do anymore), suspended one individual from posting for a while and now I'm locking the thread.

Great to see Josh in good spirits on this week's UpNext on RoversTV.

If that is indeed Wellens' point, then he isn't very bright. An injury in a legal tackle (that's what it has been deemed, irrespective of our personal opinions) has nothing to do with the disciplinary. Lees' tackle wasn't deemed illegal because somebody got injured, his tackle was illegal and somebody got hurt.

Leigh have gotten their second allocation for the lower tiers, although not many left in those either on the website.

Maybe we could convince some of the American teams to change their names.

I'm sure he will.

Pre-1995, most players were semi-professional, not training every day, 5m offside at ptb and smaller. Watch old videos and the game was very different then. The 10m offside was meant to give teams more space to attack but it had done the opposite. It has resulted in grinding one man drives at greater speed. It has discouraged attacking play in favour of safety first 5 drives and a kick. And tackling had become upright risking more head contacts for ball carrier and tackler. RL has done nothing to reduce head injuries. Tackling high, 10m offside, celebrating "big hits" which actually is just two players having their jelly-like brains violently rattled inside their hard skull, no limit on contact training and multiple subs allowing bigger players having to play only half a game The Drake Foundation did a simple of pro rugby players and 24% has brain abnormalities. The RFL could pay for say 100 SL players to have MRI scans to assess the risk. But they won't because I believe they would be shocked by the results. Instead players like Llachlan Coote retire at 33 bleeds on the brain and everyone moves on. The game needs to move away from big hits and players just running into groups of other players, cut out high tackling and move back to a game based more on skill and evasion than power. The writing is on the wall but I doubt the RFL or many fans will want to read it. Players shouldn't be expected to risk brain injuries and early onset dementia. https://www.drakefoundation.org/rugby-concussions/

Disgusting imo he's more or less implying they want 'retribution '.

Double standards and a changing narrative depending on if its a Saints player:

Well good luck to them if so, it says a lot more about whichever Saints player that is(and the Saints fans online calling for intentional targeting of him) than it does about John Asiata though.

Another excellent signing, it shows Lindsay Anfield has no intention of resting on her laurels. If she can strengthen her squad she will. Carrie could be making her debut at Saint Helens this Friday. The match is being televised on Sky, kick off at 5.30.

Although Wellens peddled similar whatabouttery when comparing how Knowles' ban was increased due to the nature of injury caused by what was deemed to be foul play, with not using an injury as a factor once a tackle had been deemed legal. For all the noise around Morgan Knowles, headbutts to the knee etc... the only questions are, was the tackle legal? If yes, should it be? If it shouldn't be, what aspect should be outlawed? Everything beyond that becomes hysterical, and in some cases, inflammatory.

Had a spell on loan with Hull last season and I was really impressed with him. Would have been happy to have him permanently. As Barry B says he's not the biggest but he's got an outstanding engine. He's enthusiastic and never stops working.

Just go to https://www.youtube.com/@shaun123387 and the content on there will keep you busy for a while.

It wasn't a terrible tackle It was a great last ditch try saving and legal tackle

This is one of the problems we have on discussions like this, and we are all guilty of it to different levels, but we all feel that our preferences are the silver bullet. We have always had regular internationals for England/GB. For the last 12/13 of those years the biggest games have been exclusively shown live on the BBC, but even prior to that, there were always extended highlights on the BBC in the afternoon even when live on Sky. There is this misconception that we have hidden the international game away and if we stopped doing that, then all would be good, but in reality, the BBC have been an excellent partner and have shown plenty of us. We act like a small time international sport, we get what we deserve.

And as it's HKR they won't tell us the attendance anyway.

The other bit to be remembered is for the players themselves that are being made more into "stars".. this is extra cash that isnt on the cap, its the extras that Union offers, national exposure etc That chance to break into a different world that offers post Rugby career opportunities. If as a sport we can say "look what could happen" then we become more appealing to people to stay in the game or to give it a go too.. Its only a minor part of it but its all incremental gains for the players and the game and the more of these types of things happen (that includes regular internationals, FTA TV exposure, "celeb" style hang outs", Tik Tok and You Tube etc etc) the more little gains we get which end up barrel rolling.

How anyone can even think of suggesting outlawing a leg tackle like that is beyond me It was a fabulous and brave last minute try saver ...no intent

And don't forget Leigh and Hull KR are also playing on the same day, who should bring a few.

No they haven't. Most fans know that when an agent initiates a request it is only a matter of time until it happens. The fans ownership has nothing to do with this. But anyway carry on.

They do get nice crowds though.

Always struck me as bizarre that this is known, there's a class action lawsuit and the RFL still went ahead and effectively reduced punishment for foul play.......

Does that mean we can add Wembley to our attendance averages for IMG points?

No sorry. I recall a joke from the Two Ronnies about a bushfire in Australia. The firefighter was telling a friend they had run out of water fighting a fire but luckily a beer tanker was going past and they used that to put out the fire. The second man lamented the waste of beer. The firefighter replied, "Oh it wasn't wasted. We drank it first".

Especially as we seem likely to have a few players retiring at the end of the season. Hardcastle said in his interview on UpNext that Locky would have retired at the end of last season if we had got promoted. You'd think the likes of Kopczak (who has been linked with Oldham), Moors, Hall, maybe even one or two others such as ET wouldn't be with us next year especially if we go up.

Various posts deleted. Please remember, on here, debate the point, don't have a go at the person making it.

Vast difference between a sense of humour and being an annoyance, when you're only doing it to wind people up. And you use more emoticons than a teenage girl.

Interesting that you have a Topic titled 'sense of humour' yet one of the Forum's more regular contributors is no longer allowed to post because of his 'sense of humour' ......... which it seems caused Ire amongst certain York members and he is now only allowed to post on the Dewsbury forum......... Oh, he sends his congratulations for a great performance on Sunday BTW ......... I expected him to be miffed about our nearest and dearest getting to Wembley but he couldn't have been happier ....... Apparently ordered his souvenir T-Shirt with "Coolie - Dog for a day" emblazoned on the back.

I thought the try saving tackle on passi was brave , unfortunate but fair , we must remember RL is a tough contact sport and this should never change , yes i feel for passi missing the rest of the season but its time saints left it alone now

Just to managed a listen to the podcast ........ it's what Oldham fans have been waiting to hear for a 'generation'. Mike's vision and plans for ORLFC and rugby in the town are exactly right. Everything he said resonated with me , it's a must listen !

To add to this:- Newcastle - Atlanta Falcons Keighley - Dallas Cowboys(After the Keighley owners) Whitehaven - Miami Dolphins (A dolphin once spotted in Haven harbor) York - Minnesota (They may have to double up with Widnes but obvious link) Toulouse - New York Jets(Just because everyone has to fly to play them but this could also be a match for York) Sheffield - (Pittsburgh Steelers if Philly turn them down) Wigan Warriors - Tennessee Titans (Clutching at straws now)

I believe some posters on this forum are AI creations.

Am I high or is this a real thread? Do people actually believe this a good idea? I don't know what's real on this forum anymore

Congrats to @StormGirl for emerging on top from a tough round for tipsters!

I watch lots of sports and follow a number very closely. I was an RFL ref at amateur level for about ten years, I was often jealous of refs in other sports as they had one thing at a time to watch. In RL for example simultaneously you have to watch for offside at the PTB, the playing of the ball the acting half backs picking up of the ball. In other instances take the Purcell incident I agree I don’t THINK he lost it but as a ref it’s impossible to see every angle and sometimes you have to give what you feel has happened rather than what you see. Take a try scored where the ball springs up after the grounding - it’s easy to assume it was dropped when often it isn’t, it’s okay when you have a video ref but most pro games don’t. It really is a very hard game to ref well. Some games don’t throw up many contentious issues and some do. If we take the Shorrocks sending off some would see it as very very harsh and others as deserved depending on your viewpoint as it was such an important call 50% will inevitably say you’ve made a howler, really difficult!