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There's plenty to be despondent about in the state of the game, from the declining TV revenues to the state of the international calendar. However, in spite of this, there are some really positive developments across the whole of the English/French game: Wigan - new ownership, greater collaboration with the football team, development and commercialisation of Robin Park Hull KR - impressive BoD, development of Craven Streat, ownership and future development of surrounding land Leeds - largest sponsorship deal ever signed Oldham - new ownership group, new £1m training facility asset which can be commercialised and return to Boundary Park Wakefield - new ownership and further stadium development plans Castleford - new investor and stadium development plans gaining traction Cornwall - tie up with Truro and move to new stadium Midlands - move to the new Alexander stadium Sheffield - investment and proposed move into new stadium with Sheffield FC Toulouse - new investor and plans for new purpose built stadium Catalan - stadium expansion and development plans Huddersfield - new training complex complete Keighley - stadium development Warrington - perhaps 2024 will be their year

I’m glad someone has posted this. There’s a lot wrong in the sport, but there are definitely reasons to be (a bit) cheerful too.

I'd add Doncaster. Newly promoted. Strong season ticket sales and sponsorship plus existing excellent facilities

I know other clubs have recruited some good players for this season, but at the end of the day it is how well they play together as a team, a few years ago we too had a load of so called stars but they played for themselves not as a team and we suffered. Hopefully we will see the same spirit this coming season as we did last with the guys going out there as one. Batley, over the years, have been exactly like that, on paper nothing special, but on the pitch each and everyone of them fought for each other and it showed. I think Hendo and Clint have done a good job of bringing in people who are a good fit for the club. Can’t wait.

Finally the club is listening, and listing a player's weight on signing.

Fantastic. I knew we'd get to the most stupid possible argument soon enough.

Yep, Argentina would love to play Brazil at football with a Brazilian ref, they'd have no problem at all.....

Thought I'd start a new thread to discuss other Championship teams for the 2024 season as the old one had reached 22 pages. Skybet were first up with the odds for the season and they go as follows (Betfred are also up with fairly similar odds) Wakefield Trinity 2/7 Toulouse Olympique 10/1 Featherstone Rovers 12/1 Bradford Bulls 14/1 Halifax Panthers 16/1 Sheffield Eagles 25/1 Widnes Vikings 25/1 York City Knights 25/1 Batley Bulldogs 33/1 Doncaster RLFC 40/1 Dewsbury Rams 50/1 Barrow Raiders 100/1 Swinton Lions 100/1 Whitehaven RLFC 100/1 Probably looks not too far off to me. I'd have York a fair bit shorter but other than that pretty much as you'd expect. We're second or third favourites behind Wakefield and close in the betting to Toulouse and Bradford, that reflects on the one hand our consistent record in the comp but also the fact that we look much weaker on paper than in the last couple of years, especially in terms of depth. Wakefield are interesting in that their odds probably reflect the overall weakness of the competition as much as their own strength. They have retained 15 (I think) of their SL squad and added some good pick-ups including Iain Thornley, Lachlan Walmsley, Jermaine McGillvary, our own Matthieu Cozza, and several others. They're staying full time, they've got Daryl Powell in to coach them, and it's no surprise to see them priced up so short, but that's partly because there isn't an obvious challenger. I must admit though I was surprised to their new owner say publicly he'd already spent £1.3 million on the squad though. That doesn't half put a target on their back - it will probably be almost 3 times as much as any other team spends - and it's a similar amount to what Leigh were rumoured to have spent in the Championship in 2022. Still, it's good for the game that there's another rich, enthusiastic owner getting involved, and his bullishness might well be proved right because they undoubtedly have a strong squad for this division and 2024 looks to be potentially the weakest Championship for years. We obviously look weaker on paper; Toulouse were beatable last year, have lost arguably their best player in Josh Ralph and haven't made many eyecatching signings yet; Bradford look to be a bit more stable than they were previously and should be a steady top 3 team, but would probably need it to be a really weak comp to win it; York look potential improvers having made some good signings, but the only club that looks like it could be potentially dominant is Wakefield, and even they don't look on paper like they're going to be anything like Leigh were two years ago. Quite looking forward to us reverting to being (hopefully) the plucky underdogs again though.

Really Good Podcast, Welsby sounds a top bloke and I really like how he says he just loves playing rugby for fun and it’s much more than just a job to him.

Speaking as a Widnes fan, the one bright spot in RL after the steady stream of bad news over the last four or five seasons has been the now approaching 70 years failure of Warrington to be league champions, so that definitely qualifies in the glass half full category for me

I could really do with "PENALTY AREA" written on a football pitch because I'm not sure where it is. Not too mention the semi circles: what are they for? Why is there a "box"? And what's that big circle in the middle for?

Maybe red paint? That's a good idea.

Now that's how you integrate a main sponsor into the kit.

I probably have thought that at points Harry. I do broadly support the grading system though, as long as it's done transparently. Something needed to be done to arrest the decline of RL, I'm willing to give it a few years before passing judgement. I think we all know that 15th "best" club is about the right place for us. Can't speak for the town (I'm a Ponte lad anyway), but the lads I stand with all know deep down that we're not a Super League club and aren't likely to be unless one of us wins the Euromillions. MC has done some good things at Fev, but he's not mega wealthy and some of his decisions have been baffling to say the least. Certainly among my group, we're looking forward to a few seasons under the radar. Supporting Fev has felt like a chore for the last few years. Some games where the result is in doubt and some underdog wins will be nice. A season similar to 2019 will be very enjoyable.

Fatigue causes injuries and can lead to injuries that would be minor being more severe. And that is before you get to the bit about tired/fatigued players losing both mental and physical capabilities (in a rugby league context) to tackle fairly and safely. There's a whole bunch of articles, scholarly ones whose summaries I need to run through google translate, about it.

1) If the Samoa tour (if it actually happens) is run like the Tonga tour, then for myself England are better off just going to Australia and joining the Pacific series 2) It is even assuming that the Pacific Series/NRL would even want England to join the competition for a year. I have to be honest from my perspective as a fan of Rugby League in London - I have only ever travelled to RL matches in the North for London Broncos, I haven't ever done it for England, and I am not sure I have any intention of doing it to be honest. If a match is in London/ the South then I would definitely attend it, as I have done for every London England match since I can recall, which includes England A when Great Britian was a thing. Perhaps if I saw a match involving England on BBC in the North and thought - wow that is an amazing atmosphere, then I probably will never be interested in spending the time travelling north for it. I am more interested in potentially travelling to Wigan for the WCC, as I know there will be an atmosphere rather than any potential England games, which unfortunately due to a number of factors doesn't get anywhere near the kind of atmosphere the club game gets.

I would always urge caution about jumping to conclusions about what puts people off based on our own preferences. It's where things like surveys can be really flawed. If you ask people what they want they'll give you a long list of things they think are important, but in reality, very many things do fall into the 'nice to have' category. We need to consider whether neutral refs and pitch markings are big enough factors that make people switch off. I'd be very surprised if they are anywhere near the top of any list of reasons for doing so. We have limited funds, we have to focus that where we get most value. Where we could have an issue is a 'death by a thousand cuts' kind of situation where things like this all grind people down so that people start to form tge opinion that we aren't a serious sport and not worth bothering with. This is broadly where I am with the international game, which has always been my favourite part of RL.

Why have you highjacked this topic on Super Six, start a new topic on the season tickets.

And the award for the most over dramatic and defensive post of the year goes to..........

Now I'm not usually a fan of Rams away kits But I've bought one this season Didn't like last seasons away kit as it looked like it needed a good wash But the green one for this season looks great

Meadows, Kibula & Rourke were all signed for 2024 season but all had a release clause for no transfer fee if got a Full time contract with a SL Club. I have done a video about it. It is good for the players if they get a chance but puts our planning into disarray really so it is difficult. We are to blame for agreeing the clauses. In future we might take a different view and miss out on signing a player who insists on such a clause. It is a difficult one so maybe view it in future on a case by case basis. There is no ill feeling as in a way we should be proud of a set up that helps develop players so they can get a FT contract and in some cases play for England. Luke Hooley ,Josh Hodson, Samy Kibula, Jimmy Meadows, Josh Rourke, Sam Wood, Jack Broadbent, James Harrison, Tyler Dupree & Alex Walmsley to name but 10!!

Not even when it appears the ref/VR is favouring his home nation?

I really wish we could travel back to 1895 and come up with a more distinctive name for our sport. In situations like this it's quite frustrating. Having said that, we'll probably get a ton of casual American fans rocking up to see 'Rugby' because at least the term is well known. Was the same in Denver, I had a taxi driver who thought he'd been to see the All Blacks, even after the game, and he claimed to be a fan, yet couldn't recognize he'd been to watch a completely different sport.

So if you're a student, have some kids quick and thereby reduce the average price of the family tickets.

I don't know why you keep bringing up pitch markings, if we were playing our England games on that pitch Toronto used then I would understand but the games Vs Tonga had RL pitch markings.

I am talking internationals Dave, as mentioned above, and on TV. You don't often go to a game - when you live 300 miles away - unless you are a fan already. If you were a non-RL person turning in to the Huddersfield Tonga game... awful look. Without Sky these people cannot watch much Super League. Also I was referring to NRL-style pitch markings. Yes, most RL people couldn't care about these things. That is the whole point of me mentioning them. As someone regularly fighting Rugby League's corner in a majority Union area, I am just reporting things I hear and see.

Good on him, hope he has more luck with injuries, we didn't really see the best from him.

That would be a typically Fev thing to do, now that auto promotion isn't available.

If England didn't host a series in 2024. It would mean 4 years without any games in England as NZ next due over on 2027 You can't go that long without letting English fans see a game of International RL.

Of course there has to be an element of free will. If you expect to play rugby league professionally and never endure any sort of health impact, you are probably being quite naive. That doesn't mean to say that if the authorities can do anything about limiting that impact without damaging the sport as a whole, why would they not take that opportunity? As for whether these changes will have an impact on protecting players health, I have no idea as I'm not an expert on these things but if I do trust the experts, I struggle to see the downsides of these changes.

League table in the OP looks about right. It would be a typically Fev thing to do to go and win the play offs this year, now that promotion isn't available.

Aussie's and Aussie apologists do because every time they lose they blame the ref. We need neutral refs for internationals and if the Aussie's and Aussie apologists don't like it, tough.

Yes she did mate

This paragraph is exactly my point. People where I am from have grown up being told RL is just a budget sport (/ a poor imitation of Union) for northerners. Poor crowds, lack of pitch markings and non-neutral refs, etc reinforce that stereotype.

That conversation doesn't happen because the person talking would assume the ref is from a neutral country

I've said this before but it's one of the ones that makes me smile. My great-grandad (who I never met) took my great-grandma to Watersheddings when they were courting. The first tackle came crunching in and she turned, appalled, and said to him, "But they're hurting each other." Some ninety years later, I took Tiny Ginger to his first non-Olympics live sport: Hemel v Oldham. The first tackle went in. He turns to me shocked and says, "But they're hurting each other."

I work in rugby environments of both codes, ranging all the way from U12 (and very occasionally primary school) all the way through to Open Age, and I can honestly say that one of my biggest challenges with young players is lack of catch-pass. The majority of youth rugby that I see, up to around U14/U15, is determined by which team has either the oldest kids (i.e. relative age effect) and/or most early onset puberty kids. I've seen games at U13 & U14 level decided by a team that gave the ball to their biggest player over and over again and that player does 80%+ of the work. That doesn't make for great learning outcomes for the other 12 players! Especially because give it to the big lad as a strategy only works for so long - loads of opportunity to learn how to read the game/play tactically/develop the majority of your players missed. My experience as a player and subsequently as a coach, as well as anecdotally from others, is that the players who have that initial physical dominance tend to either drop out when everyone else catches up in terms of physical maturation or find themselves unequipped in skill terms to hold their own any more. There is an effect where smaller players who matured later do find themselves with excellent skillsets (no doubt from trying to avoid getting tackled by the aforementioned physically dominant players) however, I wonder how many kids got stream-rolled at 8/9/10 years old and decided "rugby isn't for me." I think there's a bigger element at play than just the future professionals of the game - we need loads of kids playing and being involved in the game because they're our future supporters, volunteers and coaches as well as players, even if most of them will never progress beyond community rugby. More skilful players, and longer development time on those core skills of evasion and catch-pass will have positive outcomes in the longer term. I don't believe it will have a long term detrimental impact on the game - in fact, by having players start to learn the complex multi-faceted movement patterns involved in tackling later on in life, they're likely going to be better at tackling in the long run.

I'd agree Sheffield and York are incrementally stronger than last year. 2nd place is up for grabs. Top 6 is between 7 sides. Wakefield, Toulouse, Bradford, Featherstone, York, Sheffield and Halifax. 7 sides below them scrambling against relegation to a varying degree.

Sydney Morning Herald reporter Andrew Webster posting from Las Vegas this morning. Las Vegas: And here comes Aaron Woods, charging onto the ball, steaming up the middle of the Glitter Strip, brushing off the spruikers and urgers, ignoring the blackjack tables and watered-down margaritas and tearing into the critics of the NRL’s double-header at Allegiant Stadium on March 2. The veteran prop has been popping up everywhere here to promote the concept alongside Roosters recruit Spencer Leniu, Souths centre Campbell Graham and Broncos hooker Billy Walters. All four have been fine ambassadors for the code. Every request has been met with a smile and a laugh. They’ve been a lot of fun. Woods was prepared to slip into an Elvis jumpsuit if required. Having spent the week here, though, I’ve been surprised by the enthusiasm of Las Vegans, either on the street or local media. Hitching its wagon to the star of the UFC is a windfall most won’t understand, but the crossover between the fan bases is considerable. Good things happen when rugby league officials do bold things. Many people wanted John Quayle and Ken Arthurson sacked when they launched the Tina Turner campaign. ARL Commission chairman Peter V’landys and chief executive Andrew Abdo are about to have their Tina moment. Let’s see if they’re just as successful.

Here you go Skybet Wakefield Trinity 2/7 Toulouse Olympique 10/1 Featherstone Rovers 12/1 Bradford Bulls 14/1 Halifax Panthers 16/1 Sheffield Eagles 25/1 Widnes Vikings 25/1 York City Knights 25/1 Batley Bulldogs 33/1 Doncaster RLFC 40/1 Dewsbury Rams50/1 Barrow Raiders 100/1 Swinton Lions 100/1 Whitehaven RLFC 100/1

It would be nice if the pitches were decorated. But as most clubs share a pitch with a football team, it's not possible. It's been acknowledged it's not the biggest issue, and it's also been acknowledged that there's a reason it can't be done... so why are people still talking about it? As for 40-20s, every line has a number at the touchline denoting the metres it is; the 40m line has an additional red line on it, and IIRC the 10 and 30 are dashed lines compared to the solid lines of the 20, 50, tryline and touchlines. It's really not that difficult, and if it is that difficult you probably would struggle understanding the concept of a 40-20 anyway!

The 9s has a $20k prize pot, no indication on the split, and it is $500 to enter. The organization has been a bit laboured so far but it should be a good event once we get there. The USARL are also trying to get an international game organized with Canada but sounds like some issues in trying to get the NRL to endorse it (not sure why they have to) as it would overlap with the 9s finals. USA v Canada masters also confirmed.

It is but in a way it's not. It's as more to do with IMG points from now on. The reason I think we need to at least make the final is purely for credibility. We could get away with losing the actual final, after all it's a one off, but I think we need to at least be there. TBF on Powell, he's never actually coached at what you'd call a 'winning' club. When with you I think he was on his learning curve. Cas always flattered to deceive, he worked wonders with that team, but when it came to the business of winning finals they were always 3-4 players short. At Warrington he can just join a very long list, i wouldn't judge him on that, there was something fundamentally wrong with that club last year, even we hammered them! Truth is only Wigan, Saints and Leeds have winning titles in there DNA, I reckon Powell and a fair few other coaches would have won the title with that Wigan team. His ability to win the Championship Final will almost certainly come down to how consistent Trinity will have been under his rule and who else he brings in, it's a fine line.

Read somewhere that the Hunslet one is reversible with home on one side and away the other. £60. Great idea and takes up less space in your wardrobe if you decide to keep them for years.

I agree Dave. Of all the challenges international Rugby League has @BristolDevonCharlie, “neutral” referees is one of the least we should be concerned about or prioritising. In any case, it probably should be discussed to the length it has here, on a “neutral referee” thread. As for Samoa touring. I am a little torn on the idea. The selfish part of me wants them here to play in a four nation Pacific event. The softer part of me knows how important regular good opposition for England is for the international game. What I don’t get is why are England so bothered about hosting another ###### poor three game series? Surely they would have been better off touring down here and joining a Pacific series. Because we should all rest assured, we will be damning the RFL again in November 2024 for the same things they were damned for in 2023. Poor crowds, poor ticketing, poor scheduling, poor match day experience. The RFL are a poor organisation for which we have come to expect poor results from.

Dr who fans are very much like rugby league fans forever complaining, they slag it when its on and plead for a new series when its off.

Carl Dooler, spotting a break from the scrum, to score against Leeds and take Rovers to Wembley, semi-final 1967, at Fartown. I can play it in my head as if a high definition video. Then amongst 76,000 at Wembley, Tom Brophy's early try to put Barrow in the lead I can see clearly, but the rest is, oddly, something of a blur.

A young chap called Lee Briers giving Australian’s a masterclass in game management in both 2000 and 2011.