The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[jpmc]

We couldn't have done because there were no clubs who met minimum standard to replace them. All four CC clubs didn't meet the fans criteria of 2,500, one club had a poor business plan, one club was in financial difficulties and another had £800,000 liabilities. Only two had fourth rate academies the RFL classed as "weak".

 

There cannot be a "strong licensing system" when only 4 clubs met the requirements in full. The reason clubs got away with being poor in Superleague was the replacements were even poorer. We seem to maintain the myth that the only reason clubs didn't improve themselves was that they were lazy and it just needed them to be "strongly managed".

If the powers that be deemed no club was good enough to replace Wakefield,then IMO, the league should have run with 13 clubs, when magic weekend came round, then Catalan should have been given two points,compensated, and told to stay in France.

It would have shown everyone that the league wont accept failure in a licenced league

[Scubby]

Specifically I was meaning the RFL decision making and governance side of licensing. I tend to agree with you about clubs and their books.

 

Come on Jon, we can nurse this baby into page 200!

[Scubby]

Honest question. Are the third tier of 3x8 playing for any kind of trophy? If so, how would anyone have the cheek to celebrate it? If not, what are they playing for (other than the bottom 1/2 finishers)?

[petesmithfan]

Some interesting points from the Swiss regarding this league format...

From the 10th game the pressure began [to be involved in the top eight] and this pressure made the clubs really careless - signing players, changing the coach and taking financial risks. Apart from the few big clubs, it was not sustainable.

They intended to make the whole thing a little bit more interesting for the public. But in the end, the difference between the teams in the 'championship' league and the teams from the second division was too big, so it wasn't interesting at all.

Switzerland used the model for 15 years, from 1988 to 2003, but after attendances fell through the floor and sponsorship and television revenue dipped they voted for change

Switzerland did not have the strength in depth to increase the size of their top flight to 16 or 18 teams. And while two leagues of 12 with an 8-8-8 split was viewed as a compromise, sponsors were not keen to be associated with the bottom 16 after the split.

“It was very complicated for television and sponsors who didn’t want to be associated with any meaningless matches. It is much easier to have two separate divisions.

“The second part of the season, with eight clubs playing for the title, was as successful as the current system. But fans were not turning up in the same numbers, especially at the start of the season or when the games didn’t matter as much."

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/swiss-football-chiefs-slam-scotlands-1524036

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/21313899

Totally irreverent water muddying,   It does not take into account: available talent pool, funding, distribution, and so on and so on and so on.   It suited them will enough for over a decade, things changes?

[Ponterover]

Honest question. Are the third tier of 3x8 playing for any kind of trophy? If so, how would anyone have the cheek to celebrate it? If not, what are they playing for (other than the bottom 1/2 finishers)?

 

I can't remember it's exact title, but I think it was Championship Play Off Champions. So yes, I think they will.

 

They'll be playing for an increased disbursement too.  And of course they'll be needing to avoid relegation to C1.  Plenty to play for.

[Ponterover]

Totally irreverent water muddying,   It does not take into account: available talent pool, funding, distribution, and so on and so on and so on.   It suited them will enough for over a decade, things changes?

 

Not to mention that it's a different sport in a different country.

[Griff]

Its a weighted question John, imo aimed at proving a belief held at your HQ. At present we await the level of funding to tier2 if it is that previously muted then we will have 6/7 full time clubs and that imo will provide a vibrant mid 8 comp after a tough league campaign.

Do you prefer a or b would have been better at this stage

 

What's weighted ?

 

Do you like it ?  Yes or no ?

[Griff]

Specifically I was meaning the RFL decision making and governance side of licensing. I tend to agree with you about clubs and their books.

 

With respect, I don't see why it should be transparent.

[Griff]

Not to mention that it's a different sport in a different country.

 

Yet it's the only actual experience from which we can draw.

[Scubby]

Does anyone (who is old enough) remember when they went to 2 divisions in the early 1970s. Was there as much bickering back then as there is now?

Edited January 20, 2014 by Scubby

[JohnM]

Its a weighted question John, imo aimed at proving a belief held at your HQ. At present we await the level of funding to tier2 if it is that previously muted then we will have 6/7 full time clubs and that imo will provide a vibrant mid 8 comp after a tough league campaign.

Do you prefer a or b would have been better at this stage

 

You are perfectly at liberty to set up your own poll. 

[John Drake]

Does anyone (who is old enough) remember when they went to 2 divisions in the early 1970s. Was there as much bickering back then as there is now?

 

If the internet had been invented back then, almost certainly!

[sweaty craiq]

We couldn't have done because there were no clubs who met minimum standard to replace them. All four CC clubs didn't meet the fans criteria of 2,500, one club had a poor business plan, one club was in financial difficulties and another had £800,000 liabilities. Only two had fourth rate academies the RFL classed as "weak".

There cannot be a "strong licensing system" when only 4 clubs met the requirements in full. The reason clubs got away with being poor in Superleague was the replacements were even poorer. We seem to maintain the myth that the only reason clubs didn't improve themselves was that they were lazy and it just needed them to be "strongly managed".

It would be unlikely a part time club could step into SL as an equal, that is one reason for the changes - allowing a failed club to remain in SL is a joke

[Lounge Room Lizard]

Is this a record for the Main Forum 200 Pages?

[GIANTSTRIDES]

I have just read the report in the Examiner, I don't know exactly how accurate it is ( no reason it shouldn't be ),  It seems to me this is far from being a done deal in the long term, And in Rugby league long term is usually about 18 months.

 

I have been wondering what the SL clubs are getting out of this, I can see the arguments for some of them being able to opt for a less spending strategy, But some of them clearly won't be doing that, so what has been ceded to them  to vote this thing through.

 

There is the thing about playing the better clubs more often, but that may be nullified by it becoming stale, and SL could have just cut some strugglings clubs adrift if that was what they wanted.

 

There is a lot more to come out of this yet, I can't believe the six clubs who were against this earlier , have just gone away , thought about it and just plain changed their minds, It's almost as though they have voted it through knowing something else is in the pipeline,  Maybe a better TV deal or something.

 

They have been saying all along that there is not enough money to run SL properly ( and i agree ) but this deal doesn't seem to give them enough extra to have had such a big change of heart, One thing is certain none of them are fools when it comes to money, And i don't believe any of them have voted for this without knowing all the details, ( which are to be published later apparently )

 

I just have a feeling this is a stepping stone to something.

[Just Browny]

Is this a record for the Main Forum 200 Pages?

 

Behave, Parky's managed that on his own in a few threads.

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

Am I the only one here who's starting to lose the will to live? We can say what we like (which we are!), but the decision's been made and there would appear to be nothing we can do about it. Now - shall I have a tub of Prozac or a gallon of wood alcohol with my tea to numb the pain?

[GIANTSTRIDES]

Am I the only one here who's starting to lose the will to live? We can say what we like (which we are!), but the decision's been made and there would appear to be nothing we can do about it. Now - shall I have a tub of Prozac or a gallon of wood alcohol with my tea to numb the pain?

 

Maybe everyone wants to be the last poster, This might put me in with a shout, Personally i hope it's Parky i reckon he has contributed most.

[Griff]

Am I the only one here who's starting to lose the will to live? We can say what we like (which we are!), but the decision's been made and there would appear to be nothing we can do about it. Now - shall I have a tub of Prozac or a gallon of wood alcohol with my tea to numb the pain?

 

Nonsense !

 

We need to discuss what should happen in the next league restructure.

[Scubby]

Maybe everyone wants to be the last poster, This might put me in with a shout, Personally i hope it's Parky i reckon he has contributed most.

 

Hang your head in shame. Who would want to be last poster on this thread?

[Griff]

There can be no last poster.  Just a bloke who made the latest post.

[Keith T]

Totally irreverent water muddying,   It does not take into account: available talent pool, funding, distribution, and so on and so on and so on.   It suited them will enough for over a decade, things changes?

I have a feeling that had the Swiss experiment been a roaring success you would have been one of the first to use it as an example!!!!

[Scubby]

There can be no last poster.  Just a bloke who made the latest post.

 

We can play this out all night Griff but you know there will always be a Fev fan in the wings to quote a post from page 56 So we may as well call a truce.

[Griff]

We can play this out all night Griff but you know there will always be a Fev fan in the wings to quote a post from page 56 So we may as well call a truce.

 

You're wrong there.  Mi tea's nearly ready.

Edited January 20, 2014 by Griff

[The Parksider]

Am I the only one here who's starting to lose the will to live? We can say what we like (which we are!), but the decision's been made and there would appear to be nothing we can do about it.

 

The decisions will continue to the next meeting, the clubs are still split and in time this decision may well change again. So nothing's set in stone forever.