middle 8

[scotchy]

Take the central funded monies from all the teams in the middle 8's and share that out the following season based upon how they finish in the middle 8's. Such that the SL teams lose some monies as further penalty for being in bottom 4 and the championship teams that made the middle 8's get more equal funding centrally to those bottom 4 SL teams.

don't we then create the same gap between the top 8 and bottom 4 in SL.

The fact is if we can't pay for 24 clubs, then the system won't work (and even then it is giving up on everyone else outside the top 2 leagues).

The system won't work and was never going to work. That much was obviously. This issue is always going to be a problem.

The biggest flaw in it is the simple question that if we are giving championship clubs enough to be competitive (and this ignores the question of why the SL clubs should give money to clubs looking to replace them, to make it easier for them to replace them) with SL clubs. Why not have them in SL to start with?

[bamfordsbeans]

The nature  of our sport means there are going to be big gaps between competing teams.

The same can be said of SL.

Anybody tipping a Widnes v Salford Grand Final next year?

Clubs like these are as far away from Leeds, Wigan and Saints as the Championship clubs are from the bottom of SL.

[Viking Warrior]

You're rubbish at tipping or a one-eyed biased supporter.  Take your pick.

 

 

erm read my tips tis week i tipped leigh and bradford to win, but as i said they are just not good enough 

[Viking Warrior]

the best means of promotion was licensing, widnes are a great example of the progress to be made when a  team is allowed to build over 3 years and not go or bust for one season, under licensing i am absolutely certain that leigh would be in super league now because of the great strides they have made off the field as well as on it, just look at wakefield they planned for the middle 8s early in the season so they lost the overwhelming majority of games just to concentrate on these 7 in the eights 

[PREPOSTEROUS]

the best means of promotion was licensing, widnes are a great example of the progress to be made when a team is allowed to build over 3 years and not go ###### or bust for one season, under licensing i am absolutely certain that leigh would be in super league now because of the great strides they have made off the field as well as on it, just look at wakefield they planned for the middle 8s early in the season so they lost the overwhelming majority of games just to concentrate on these 7 in the eights

Agree. Licensing was the best option for a small sport like RL. It just wasn't implemented well. Ideally we should have 12-14 teams that can be added to as and when clubs wish to and are ready to join the top flight. Don't bother with enforced demotion as that has its own issues. Allow clubs an exit strategy for those who find they can not compete or are having difficulties surviving in SL. As it grows introduce conferences to keep the number of fixtures down. This provides a pathway for ambitious championship clubs and also allows expansion clubs to enter.

[PREPOSTEROUS]

Oh and the notion that Trinity are over extending themselves to stay in SL is laughable. Carter is a tight wad who, if he could, would charge you if you farted inside the ground. There is a reason Daniel Smith and McShane were allowed to leave their contracts early, cash.

[yipyee]

IMO Sheffield and Halifax were never going to be competitive,

Sheffield has stated they are using this years budget to go Full Time and will make a better fist of it next year...Fax are investing in infrastructure with a longer term view,

I expected more off Leigh and Bradford...however whoever wins the game against each other will have a stab in a one off game where the pressure will be on the SL side not Leigh/Bulls.

[Wollo Wollo Wayoo]

Wakefield did what they felt gave them the best opportunity for sl rugby next year. It's against the spirit of sport to deliberately underspend and not go all out to go as well as they can but understandable given the scenario presented by the new system.

What really needs addressing is the amount of late signings that were made by multiple clubs.

 

Most, if not all, Wakefield fans will tell you that the players we have lost throughout the season have been replaced by theoretically poorer players.  The replacements were ad hoc, NOT pre-planned from day one of the season. 

 

IMHO the change of coach has been a bigger influence.  James Webster had a three year contract so that was hardly part of a master scheme either.

[MancRL]

I'd like the Championship to be built into a stronger league in itself.

I don't know if it's possible? But is there any Chance of a TV deal? Would the clubs want this? I'm talking about showing just the one game a week. Showcasing Rugby League to a non Sky TV audience.

Maybe on channel 5 or another terrestrial TV channel. Hopefully building the Championship into a more attractive league.

[Doghead]

Surely the Million pound game is an admission by the RFL that the middle 8 concept is flawed.

[Blind side johnny]

I'd like the Championship to be built into a stronger league in itself.

I don't know if it's possible? But is there any Chance of a TV deal? Would the clubs want this? I'm talking about showing just the one game a week. Showcasing Rugby League to a non Sky TV audience.

Maybe on channel 5 or another terrestrial TV channel. Hopefully building the Championship into a more attractive league.

 

 

The present TV deal gives Sky the rights to all Championship matches so that would be impossible I'm afraid. Premier TV did a pretty good job of promoting the competition but got screwed by the RFL so packed in part way through.

[redjonn]

don't we then create the same gap between the top 8 and bottom 4 in SL.

The fact is if we can't pay for 24 clubs, then the system won't work (and even then it is giving up on everyone else outside the top 2 leagues).

The system won't work and was never going to work. That much was obviously. This issue is always going to be a problem.

The biggest flaw in it is the simple question that if we are giving championship clubs enough to be competitive (and this ignores the question of why the SL clubs should give money to clubs looking to replace them, to make it easier for them to replace them) with SL clubs. Why not have them in SL to start with?

 

Yes we do... that is create a gap between top 8 and bottom 4.   However if the club improves its only for one season. If the club doesn't then yep their in a tricky situation but for me some are just coasting anyway and their is a gap anyway not just because of funding. From success and historical reasons some clubs are more attractive to top talent than others, hence it takes a long time to join or replace those clubs at top of pile in a particular period of time.  Unless a money man comes in willing to spend big, but salary cap stops that approach, hence it takes a long time.

 

At least we have championship clubs able to improve and maybe replace those that year on year remain in bottom 4.  Yep no current SL team are likely to vote for it, agreed.  

 

As I say we either have a P&R approach or we don't. At the moment we want to say we have P&R but really we rig the system because.. well we don't really want it.    Although at least for the moment it has had an impact of ambitious championship clubs.

[Wiltshire Warrior Dragon]

What I find a bit surprising is that nobody seems to mention that the idea of a group based on the lower sides in the top division and the leading clubs in the next tier down is not new.  It was used in France the year before it was introduced in SL/the Championship. 

 

The outcome?  As far as I recall (and I stand to be corrected by the likes of Audois) I was that every Elite 1 -v- Elite 2 clash resulted in victory for the former.  So why should we be surprised that Leigh and Bradford are not ​winning the cross-division clashes.? 

 

Sometimes the evidence that is available just doesn't seem to get looked at and thought about!

[thundergaz]

I have no sympathy if I'm being honest as this is what the champ clubs wanted/voted for. They wanted a piece of the funding/ promotion and they have got that so I don't see the problem myself and I'm a fan of a champ club. They need to work towards pipping a SL club and making the step up not whinge about how hard or unfair it is. We all knew it was going to be hard so nothing's changed IMO.

[Lobbygobbler]

I've still really enjoyed it so far!

[JonM]

As far as I recall (and I stand to be corrected by the likes of Audois) I was that every Elite 1 -v- Elite 2 clash resulted in victory for the former. 

 

I think you're right, although the disparity between clubs in France is if anything even more marked in terms of finance and playing resources - no central funding there for one thing. There were 8 clubs in Elite 1 because that was the number who felt they could compete at that level, there's probably going to be 9 this season because Albi were able to step up, although Villeneuve (one of the founder clubs and champions/a SL candidate at the time Catalans were selected) may not exist by the start of the season.

 

Seems a bit premature to be condemning the fixture format after 2 rounds. Every game has gone as expected, hardly a surprise. Halifax seem to have been close to Hull KR for most of the game, following on from them being 4-0 down against Widnes with minutes left on the clock. Leigh vs Wakefield this weekend was always going to be the first real test.

 

Bottom line is that we have limited money, limited numbers of clubs and a sport where the better team generally wins by some margin. Any fixture/league formula you come up with will have some problems.

[tuutaisrambo]

I have no sympathy if I'm being honest as this is what the champ clubs wanted/voted for. They wanted a piece of the funding/ promotion and they have got that so I don't see the problem myself and I'm a fan of a champ club. They need to work towards pipping a SL club and making the step up not whinge about how hard or unfair it is. We all knew it was going to be hard so nothing's changed IMO.

This..........

 

Fax/Sheffield will se it as a bonus getting a result in the 8s....their aim was to achieve the extra funding for getting in the top 4.

 

From what i've seen of Bradford i never really fancied their chances..........I expected Leigh on the other hand, to do much better than they have.........looks like a pressure thing to me.......they've hammered inferior teams all year and played brilliantly as underdogs with nothing to lose in the Challenge Cup..........But now is the time for them to stand up and prove they are can compete at lower SL level and they are struggling.

[tuutaisrambo]

I'd worry about the other championship clubs if i was Leigh........It's looking like a top 4 from super league so those games are vital to grab 5th place for a play off......They have a lot of big games at the LSV coming up but i reckon Fax away will be just as tough.

[The Parksider]

I have no sympathy if I'm being honest as this is what the champ clubs wanted/voted for. They wanted a piece of the funding/ promotion and they have got that so I don't see the problem myself and I'm a fan of a champ club. 

 

I think they voted for it for more complex reasons than just wanting P & R Gav, mostly financial as you indicate.

 

I'd guess if it wasn't for the money angle they'd have preferred Auto P & R.

 

I'm not sure that was even on the table, or if it was whether the Championship clubs had the numbers to swing it?

 

Anyone know??

[Blind side johnny]

Does anyone else see the similarities between this and the World Club Challenge games?

 

I don't find the results at all surprising and simple P&R won't solve anything - but we have been around that roundabout many times, haven't we?

[Ackropj]

I have no sympathy if I'm being honest as this is what the champ clubs wanted/voted for. They wanted a piece of the funding/ promotion and they have got that so I don't see the problem myself and I'm a fan of a champ club. They need to work towards pipping a SL club and making the step up not whinge about how hard or unfair it is. We all knew it was going to be hard so nothing's changed IMO.

Totally agree, the problem you have is exactly what Fev did, spent big, possibly more than they had and under achieved, it's going to take a few years to put that right now, Jon sharps words, not mine, I also see Bradford and Leigh going through a similar thing if not promoted, Sheffield going full time and giving out contracts that nobody wants as can't afford to pay proper full time wages, big exodus of players in the off season there.

Fax, spending on infrastructure and academy to "build", this may take a few years before they can have a go at promotion but doing it in a sustainable manner is only good for the club as a whole, Richard marshals vision isn't the immediate promised land others seem to be desperate to chase. I'm loving these middle 8's and had no delusions of grandure before entering into it, a shame this can't be said for the others. Fax will be 5th or 6th. They had budgeted for 5th in the regular season.

[chuffer]

Its not over yet though!!....widnes can still come unstuck, as could Shaky Wakey or Salford.... Leigh or bradford could up their game, Fax are dark horses and have been putting in some decent shifts... Not over till t'fat lass opens gob

[Lounge Room Lizard]

IMO Sheffield and Halifax were never going to be competitive,

Sheffield has stated they are using this years budget to go Full Time and will make a better fist of it next year...Fax are investing in infrastructure with a longer term view,

I expected more off Leigh and Bradford...however whoever wins the game against each other will have a stab in a one off game where the pressure will be on the SL side not Leigh/Bulls.

Think you will find Halifax have been competive and have only lost in the last 5-10 minutes of both games.Maybe they could have beaten both HKR and Widnes if they had been a bit better with ball in Hand. As you Fax are investing Long term and will run a reserves next year etc. I didnt expect much from Bradford as they have hardly been impressive in the Championship losing to Fax, Fev, Leigh, Sheffield and pushed Close by Dewsbury and Batley. I expected far more from Leigh and surprised they have been pretty poor in both games. They have the Players and Coach to do well.

 

As somebody mentioned ist tough to step up from smashing Teams like Leigh have to then having to play FT Teams who have been playing at a higher Level. I think Halifax were lucky to some extent as the last couple games saw them face London, Bradford, Sheffield where they had to step up and helped give them a good platform to work off. I still feel there is plenty to play for and that a shock or two can still happen as the Championship Teams get used to playing better opponents. And the Million game could still see Leigh beat Wakey for example. Lets just give it a bit more time before writing it off as a disaster- which I dont think it has to be honest and I feel the Championship Teams will be far more prepared next year as this year it was still very much an unknown area and what they needed to do to step up a Level.

[scotchy]

Fwiw Sheffield didn't vote for this system.

[gingerjon]

The present TV deal gives Sky the rights to all Championship matches so that would be impossible I'm afraid. Premier TV did a pretty good job of promoting the competition but got screwed by the RFL so packed in part way through.

 

They did get screwed but, on the other hand, they were only reaching RL fans and had a tiny audience compared even to Sky Sports.

 

(And fans used to moan about Thursdays then an' all.)