England's problem is not the coach, it's the talent pool.

[Manfred Mann]

Wayne Bennett is a very successful coach. However he just cannot make winners out of a defective product. The problem is that Bennett doesn't have enough quality players to work with. England does not have 17 players of international standard. It is particularly weak in the halves and the centres.

 

The problem is that the game of rugby league in England is too small, in terms of numbers of players, relative to Australia.

 

Australia has 4 or 5 times as many players at all levels, as England. Australia has no shortage of talent. It could field at least two teams, maybe three, that could beat England.

 

The only way that England can compete is if it at least doubles its overall playing numbers. That means strengthening and expansion of professional teams in the south (London and elsewhere), in the midlands, and in the north (esp Newcastle). Only with a more geographically representative array of professional teams will more English juniors consider making rugby league a career.

 

This is most unlikely to happen with promotion and relegation. Licensing is the only way to engineer a geographical growth of the game, and thus expand the talent pool.

[Big Picture]

Absolutely correct, I've suggested that same thing myself a few years ago.  The northern heartland stopped being sufficiently populous and rich to compete with Australian RL's NSW and Queensland base many years ago.

[Oxford]

No only partially true.

 

There is the makings of a very good side for England but it's what you do to develop it that makes the difference.

[The Daddy]

I blame the system

[dhw]

I would have said blame the standard of the coaching from juniors right up to the elite level. Doubling the player pool might help but not by much. There are enough people playing RL to be able to match Australia and New Zeland in terms of skills. Using the numbers game India should be dominating cricket in all forms of the game, but they have never done so. Yet England, West Indies and Australia have done, whilst RSA has outperformed India since they returned to international competition.

[absentee thoughtlord]

Yes, Wayne Bennett is a great coach and tactician.

 

Yes, the player pool should, and could, be a great deal larger.

 

No, Wayne Bennett did not do the best job with the pool available. Sincerely, I admire his ability to get the best out of players, but getting the best out of those who aren't the even best among their peers is a big, big ask. Too many great athletes sat at home or on the bench (or even playing for another national side) in my opinion, not that it matters much.

[steef]

I know it's a different sport but if Iceland can beat England at football we should be able to beat Australia with the player pool available, Certainly more often than we do. We can't build pressure and we don't execute skills under pressure as well as them. I don't think SL puts our players under enough pressure consistently to produce the players to do this at international level, especially in spine positions. I'm not for a second suggesting that an increased player pool wouldn't help us though.

[dkw]

We got worse each game, so yes Wayne Bennet does deserve criticism and absolutely did not do the best job with what he had available.

[damp squib]

I know it's a different sport but if Iceland can beat England at football we should be able to beat Australia with the player pool available, Certainly more often than we do. We can't build pressure and we don't execute skills under pressure as well as them. I don't think SL puts our players under enough pressure consistently to produce the players to do this at international level, especially in spine positions. I'm not for a second suggesting that an increased player pool wouldn't help us though.

 

There is a lesson in the Iceland example in that about 15 years ago they invested in all-weather, small size pitches for every town and massively increased the quantity and quality of coaches working at every level. Kids from the earliest age up until around 15 or so play small sided, skills based games rather than full contact, 11-a-side games on boggy pitches. The result is a disproportionate amount of players with highly developed skills. RL should look to get kids playing touch or Eurotag to build up a skillset without putting off players who haven't fully developed physically yet.

[BroncoFan]

The coach has been a disaster from start to finish and taken the team backwards, yes the player pool is too thin because of the obsession with overseas players but Bennett is a myth.

[BroncoFan]

Sorry, double post

[paulwalker71]

... but Bennett is a myth.

 

 

So the most successful coach in the history of the game is 'a myth'?

 

Who else would you suggest then? 

[deluded pom?]

There is a lesson in the Iceland example in that about 15 years ago they invested in all-weather, small size pitches for every town and massively increased the quantity and quality of coaches working at every level. Kids from the earliest age up until around 15 or so play small sided, skills based games rather than full contact, 11-a-side games on boggy pitches. The result is a disproportionate amount of players with highly developed skills. RL should look to get kids playing touch or Eurotag to build up a skillset without putting off players who haven't fully developed physically yet.

I've argued this point for years. English junior coaches, whatever the sport, are generally obsessed with winning rather than developing players' skills and technique.

[Padge]

Everyone is blaming Bennet with us giving him raw material.

 

The players need to look at themselves, not the coach.

[deluded pom?]

Everyone is blaming Bennet with us giving him ###### raw material.

 

The players need to look at themselves, not the coach.

Bennett has the same raw material that McNamara had but also much more tolerant critics.

[Padge]

Bennett has the same raw material that McNamara had but also much more tolerant critics.

 

I was a low level critic of McNamara, Bennet has the same problem that he had. I also think that Bennet has been told it isn't about the 4 nations, its the Worl Cup

[Colin James]

We could have the best 13 individuals in the world and not win unless we start taking it seriously by devoting more time to building a team.

[EastLondonMike]

You can't blame the coach when a player drops the ball, or fails to find touch, or switches off at marker, or fails to finish the set in the proper manor.

The faults lie on the players inability in certain situatiobs

[ELBOWSEYE]

Been reading various posts on England, but if you look at halfbacks were we had a separate topic for that alone.A few years ago Tomkins and eastmond were new young halfbacks together on the international stage, if still there they would be well established internationals but we have seen what happened. In the last ten years two top level halves Briers and Brough were ignored and played for their heritage countries. So we have produced them but all through this time Australia halves have been constant and building an understanding and we wonder why we don't compete.

[GeordieSaint]

I personally think the problem is a mixture of coaching at all levels and the English competition.

[DEANO]

Not gonna be liked for this but here goes. Instead of wasting time money and resources trying to spread the game beyond the north the rfl would do better to put their efforts into the north

[Scubby]

I personally think the problem is a mixture of coaching at all levels and the English competition.

 

Exactly, Williams could have an unbelievable season next year and still not be ready to lead England. This is due to the pressure he is playing week in week out in SL.

 

There is a reason Bennett wanted Hodkinson in the team at 7. He just wanted a reliable half with a sound kicking game so he could concentrate on other key areas. In the end he has probably spent the whole month over here trying create a spine from rocks and diamonds.

[GeordieSaint]

Not gonna be liked for this but here goes. Instead of wasting time money and resources trying to spread the game beyond the north the rfl would do better to put their efforts into the north

Same old same old from you sadly. Hardly any money is spent outside the north; its pittance compared to the millions spent every year in traditional areas. We've got 7 x C1 sides (incl the Welsh ones) getting £75k and the Broncos probably on about £300-350k. Zip all is given to the community game as well and is led by volunteers. Pittance...

Compare that to 11 x SL clubs on £1.825m a season plus 11 x Champ sides ranging from £700k-250k plus at least 6 x C1 sides on £75k and then most of the community game in the north. Now tell me again where the vast majority of the money is being spent and wasted every year?

[GeordieSaint]

Exactly, Williams could have an unbelievable season next year and still not be ready to lead England. This is due to the pressure he is playing week in week out in SL.

There is a reason Bennett wanted Hodkinson in the team at 7. He just wanted a reliable half with a sound kicking game so he could concentrate on other key areas. In the end he has probably spent the whole month over here trying create a spine from rocks and diamonds.

I've said it for years; the way we play the game in England is wrong. Big lads carting it up winning quick play the balls with a lack of any real invention as those skills have been coached out of our best players at the top level. Defences are rubbish so 'runners' in the halves can ghost through rather than relying on invention and craft. There are simply no rel organisational halves in the game in England; it's been all coached out of them.

[Mark S]

The talent pool will probably get one player smaller as I can see Mcgivalry getting approach by the plodders code. It sounds like he grew up in poverty and the chance to earn some decent cash would be atttactive.