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John Drake

The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

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2 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Please don't open this can of worms Harry. Bradford didn't change ownership; they went out of business and a new club was formed.

Indeed, a new Club (company) that immediately got a full RFL Membership no questions asked. (Due diligence done?) As per Widnes. 

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YES its not good that this has happened, however these are unusual times and the last thing we should be doing is knocking someone who has put in over £18Million.

If you had invested over £18 Million in a club would you have wanted it to end like this I THINK NOT.

I agree things could have been handled better however we should not be making comments that might put off anyone out there investing in RL down the line.

Constructive comments and ideas to take this great game forward are needed.

Lets see how it pans out interesting times.

 

Paul

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20 hours ago, RayCee said:

I'd love to see a NA league where the likes of the Wolfpack, Ottawa and and any other potential clubs formed their own league. Then they wouldn't have to deal with this  self centered, short sighted and inward looking outfit known as SL.

Perhaps they could invite UK teams to join. Of course they would have to cover all travel costs and wouldn't be allowed to to have their own TV deal nor receive any money from the NA TV deal the other clubs would enjoy. 

yes but the Wolfpack wanted to join the RFL leagues they where not invited i;m sure if UK teams wanted to join a north american league then they would have to do the same as Toronto have had to do.  

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2 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Too big a step.  

All well and good playing against the top sides but they would have to gamble of a good few quality players on medium term (say 2years) contracts, as I doubt many would relish a single years security.

i think the key to all this is what Elstone, Hudgell have alluded to with a SL of 11 teams and promotion from the Champs every year until it gets to 14 followed by a 3 year lock in.

So, after detailed analysis, I predict:

Year 1 - London

Year 2 - TO

Year 3 - Featherstone.

Then 3 year lock in before review.

Tin hat time 😎

Is that invitational or by winning promotion on the field?

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1 hour ago, EastLondonMike said:

It's actually quite depressing to read the two parties now in discussion in takeover talks with Toronto are the people behind the NY bid and a union club. Feels like it's just potentially prolonging the pain.
 

Thunder are far more than a union club

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3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Is that invitational or by winning promotion on the field?

Hopefully on the field but I WONT hold my breath:(

Only way out of this is SL2 and SUPER 8,S 

BIG TEAM gets relegated hard cheese always the chance to go back up again.

The current system will mean that in 10 years times there will still only be 4/5 winners of the SLGF (5th one prob the Dragons) 

 

Paul

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2 hours ago, Blind side johnny said:

Not to mention receiving RFL distribution money, which TWP said would be a condition.

Yep I said that in a post a couple of hours previously, the one you are referencing was particularly regarding travel and subsistance in respect of could Championship clubs afford it should TWP get relegated a division lower, I personally don't think they can and so whether it is TWP, Ottawa, New York or any other team from across the Atlantic they will have to stump up to 'welcome' our lower league clubs over there, and I am not to sure that SL will want to pay either without getting anything back, and if the the next TV deal means a funding reduction, I would say there is no chance at all SL clubs pass a ruling to pay to visit across the pond.

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8 minutes ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Hopefully on the field but I WONT hold my breath:(

Only way out of this is SL2 and SUPER 8,S 

BIG TEAM gets relegated hard cheese always the chance to go back up again.

The current system will mean that in 10 years times there will still only be 4/5 winners of the SLGF (5th one prob the Dragons) 

 

Paul

The problem with the 3-8s system was that the only group of 8 that did well (in terms of support) was the middle one, the Qualifiers. The Super 8 had the GF at the end which existed without it, the games saw much lower crowds than the equivalent fixtures pre-split and were all repeat fixtures so people got bored until the GF when they were interested again. The Championship Shield was again wholly comprised of repeat fixtures and was made worse by it being a competition with the 'prize' of being the best of the poorest teams, none of the teams wanted to be in it. The qualifiers did well as they involved a 7 week battle for promotion, Championship clubs got ties against SL clubs and they were not wholly comprised of repeat fixtures. No other aspect of that system was worth keeping and we should not go back to it.

What could work would be to have a playoff system involving the bottom SL team and the Championship top 5 (week 1- 2nd v 5th and 3rd v 4th then week 2 - SL club v lowest week 1 winner and Championship league leaders v other week 1 winner, the two semi final winners then play for the SL place). That could happen in tandem with (or a week ahead of) the SL playoffs and no clubs would need to play in the unwanted Championship Shield. The downside is that promotion would not be assured under such a system which may put off Championship clubs from voting to bring such a system in.

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43 minutes ago, stevevalerugby said:

yes but the Wolfpack wanted to join the RFL leagues they where not invited i;m sure if UK teams wanted to join a north american league then they would have to do the same as Toronto have had to do.  

No they wouldn't, North American leagues don't operate in that small time way.  Teams in Europe would either join as full members with the same rights as current members, or not at all.  If they joined they would pay a hefty fee for their franchise and benefit from an expansion draft to help them stock their roster.

Edited by Big Picture
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2 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

No they wouldn't, North American leagues don't operate in that small time way.  Teams in Europe would either join as full members with the same rights as current members, or not at all.  And if they joined they'd benefit from an expansion draft to help them stock their roster.

well we will never know will we and if that's the case why isn't there a league set up in north america.  And there is the problem the majority of the players playing in the RFL leagues have come through the system and teams don't need a draft system to fill their roster it looks like Toronto where just going to keep buying players without ever producing their own.  I just hope Ottawa don't do the same abut try to produce their own players as well.

 

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4 minutes ago, stevevalerugby said:

well we will never know will we and if that's the case why isn't there a league set up in north america.  And there is the problem the majority of the players playing in the RFL leagues have come through the system and teams don't need a draft system to fill their roster it looks like Toronto where just going to keep buying players without ever producing their own.  I just hope Ottawa don't do the same abut try to produce their own players as well.

There isn't a league set up here because as far as we know no one has come up with a plan for such a league and then found backers for it.  "Rugby" of any kind being almost an unknown sport over here and RL even less well known, realistically that wouldn't be feasible without it having a transatlantic element so it would stand out from the established leagues.

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8 minutes ago, stevevalerugby said:

well we will never know will we and if that's the case why isn't there a league set up in north america.  And there is the problem the majority of the players playing in the RFL leagues have come through the system and teams don't need a draft system to fill their roster it looks like Toronto where just going to keep buying players without ever producing their own.  I just hope Ottawa don't do the same abut try to produce their own players as well.

 

Not wanting to turn this thread and discussion back at least 200 pages.... but how do you develop SL quality players for immediate or imminent inclusion into SL from a standing start with no history,? That's bonkers.

It would take two decades to establish that with any seriousness 

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1 minute ago, Robin Evans said:

Not wanting to turn this thread and discussion back at least 200 pages.... but how do you develop SL quality players for immediate or imminent inclusion into SL from a standing start with no history,? That's bonkers.

It would take two decades to establish that with any seriousness 

i agree with you but Toronto have been in existence since 2017 and there is nothing set up to even get youngsters interested.  i know it will take a long time to produce these but as i was saying the RFL leagues in general produce their own players and don't need a draft system.  not everything that works in north america is going to work in the UK and just because that's what they do in America doesen't mean its the right way to do it.  I would love to see both the North American sides thrive but until you get youngsters interested in schools and local clubs i don't think they will

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1 hour ago, Sand dancer said:

Thunder are far more than a union club

Is it Newcastle? I thought Saracens was mentioned, or was that just forum speculation? Maybe it was. If it is Newcastle seems strange it would be referred to as a union club, whens its a RL club also.

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16 minutes ago, stevevalerugby said:

i agree with you but Toronto have been in existence since 2017 and there is nothing set up to even get youngsters interested.  i know it will take a long time to produce these but as i was saying the RFL leagues in general produce their own players and don't need a draft system.  not everything that works in north america is going to work in the UK and just because that's what they do in America doesen't mean its the right way to do it.  I would love to see both the North American sides thrive but until you get youngsters interested in schools and local clubs i don't think they will

They have to generate interest first. Which Toronto did. I understood Perez’s vision and mission. Not a clue what Argyles was.

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1 hour ago, Smudger06 said:

Indeed, a new Club (company) that immediately got a full RFL Membership no questions asked. (Due diligence done?) As per Widnes. 

Bradford 1964, York 2003.................................Toronto 2021?

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Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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6 hours ago, Wiltshire Warrior Dragon said:

I didn't know that, SL17.  Between or among which parties is the contract, and for how long is it intended to last?

it raises interesting issues including whether, if TWP survive but are meant to revert to the championship, the RFL are willing and able to accommodate them there.  Also, if TWP are not in SL, how you decide, and when, who takes their place?

If your business is pumping 900k a season   In to a competition of 12 teams then you expect 12 teams, otherwise you are not getting what you paid for. The structure was voted in favour unanimously by all SL chairman and ratified by the RFL.

The structure can’t go with 11.

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Just now, SL17 said:

If your business is pumping 900k a season   In to a competition of 12 teams then you expect 12 teams, otherwise you are not getting what you paid for. The structure was voted in favour unanimously by all SL chairman and ratified by the RFL.

The structure can’t go with 11.

Hasn't that contract already been amended to provide for lower payments from Sky next year? If so then it could certainly have been changed in other ways as well, without informing forums accordingly.


Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change.

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2 minutes ago, SL17 said:

 

The structure can’t go with 11.

It won't.  Its going to be a reight laugh watching the pantomime unfold with regards to which team will fill the slot.....

Forum activity ++++😆😆

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Nobody On this forum seems to consider Toronto returning next year with different ownership to be a possibility. I thought the statement made it clear it was a possibility, probably more likely than any of the existing Championship clubs being elevated without earning it on the pitch. 

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Just now, Eddie said:

Nobody On this forum seems to consider Toronto returning next year with different ownership to be a possibility. I thought the statement made it clear it was a possibility, probably more likely than any of the existing Championship clubs being elevated without earning it on the pitch. 

That has been discussed a lot on this thread. 

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