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1 hour ago, BryanC said:

Firstly, my earlier deleted post was just a wish that the ex-military on here would just "bore off" (in the modern vernacular), with all their forces reminiscences. I realise that it was disappointing that the majority of "the usual suspects" never actually fought in a war, but really, we're not interested in self-propelled guns, NBC suits, et al. 

It is PROFOUNDLY disappointing that so many of my countrymen cannot distinguish between died "WITH" Covid-19 and died "OF" Covid-19.

 

I would like to ask all those ex military types to carry on with their reminiscing of their past , I'm glad those that most if not all didn't have a war to fight , I'm sure they are most unpleasant 

On your second point how stupid does somebody need to be to not understand that quite often it is a combination of health issues that causes death ?

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36 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

So Italy and Spain are manipulating their figures as well, yes?  After all, they are both experiencing a rather long tail.

It could be that this virus grows slowly at first, then exponentially (unless action is taken), then plateaus (as a result of that action) and then tails off slowly.  If you took a look at what is happening in European countries just now, you may just see that instead of the government being involved in some conspiracy against its population, the virus here is behaving in a very similar fashion to the virus elsewhere.

Belgium appears to be at a similar stage to us in the pandemic cycle.  Italy and Spain are ahead of us. 

You will see I am not accusing them of a conspiracy, it is simply spin. We know the numbers announced relate to about 10 to 15 different days and not one. It would be very easy to control how many are registered and logged each day. Our curve has rather conveniently slotted into the same path as Italy's despite quite different approaches. There are quite wide differences between the various nations. 

But, happy to continue this on the political thread to avoid moderation issues. 

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27 minutes ago, Dave T said:

You will see I am not accusing them of a conspiracy, it is simply spin. We know the numbers announced relate to about 10 to 15 different days and not one. It would be very easy to control how many are registered and logged each day. Our curve has rather conveniently slotted into the same path as Italy's despite quite different approaches. There are quite wide differences between the various nations. 

But, happy to continue this on the political thread to avoid moderation issues. 

You do realise that it takes some time to register deaths sometimes, yes?  And if you look at the England totals given out each day you will see they are broken down into the dates of actual death.  And of course at all times everyone has been clear that these are hospital deaths only; that the hospitals are very used to producing daily stats and so it was much more straightforward to use them as a consistent guide as to what is happening with the pandemic.  I've no idea how you consider those facts to be spin but then I'm no conspiracy theorist so I guess I wouldn't understand it!

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2 hours ago, BryanC said:

 

It is PROFOUNDLY disappointing that so many of my countrymen cannot distinguish between died "WITH" Covid-19 and died "OF" Covid-19.

Unbelievable how many have swallowed all this nonsense hook, line and sinker without questioning ANY of it. Basic freedoms given up unquestioningly without so much as a whimper. As I've stated before, we have become a nation of Mary Ellens and you will live to regret it.

The people being tested for Covid-19 are those admitted to hospital suffering from acute respiratory disease. If someone dies of viral pneumonia and tests positive for a virus that causes pneumonia, i’d say in most cases it’s fair to say that’s the primary cause of death. We’re not retrospectively testing car crash victims.

Last week the ONS reported the highest recorded number of deaths in a week since records began, in a month that is usually nowhere near the peak of the year. It’s fine to have an opinion whether a lockdown is needed but to deny the impact of this virus shows me that you probably aren’t qualified in this area.

If you’d like to let us all know which area of medicine your degree is in then i’m sure those of us who do work in a clinical environment would be more than happy to discuss this somewhere more appropriate than an anonymous rugby league forum.

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9 minutes ago, fevtom said:

The people being tested for Covid-19 are those admitted to hospital suffering from acute respiratory disease. If someone dies of viral pneumonia and tests positive for a virus that causes pneumonia, i’d say in most cases it’s fair to say that’s the primary cause of death. We’re not retrospectively testing car crash victims.

Last week the ONS reported the highest recorded number of deaths in a week since records began, in a month that is usually nowhere near the peak of the year. It’s fine to have an opinion whether a lockdown is needed but to deny the impact of this virus shows me that you probably aren’t qualified in this area.

If you’d like to let us all know which area of medicine your degree is in then i’m sure those of us who do work in a clinical environment would be more than happy to discuss this somewhere more appropriate than an anonymous rugby league forum.

While I agree with the sentiment, I would suggest his research might be in virology, epidemilogy or even sociology that is applicable to this. That would certainly give him a valuable insight. I would agree that these valuable insights could be shared in a relevant place.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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28 minutes ago, Saintslass said:

You do realise that it takes some time to register deaths sometimes, yes?  And if you look at the England totals given out each day you will see they are broken down into the dates of actual death.  And of course at all times everyone has been clear that these are hospital deaths only; that the hospitals are very used to producing daily stats and so it was much more straightforward to use them as a consistent guide as to what is happening with the pandemic.  I've no idea how you consider those facts to be spin but then I'm no conspiracy theorist so I guess I wouldn't understand it!

You are clearly missing my point. The fact that the recording of deaths is sporadic shows how it is possible to pretty much report whatever number you want really. 

The backdated reports are great, but those numbers are not quoted to the media at all. 

The daily recorded numbers are not a true reflection of daily deaths, but they were being taken as that and the commentary changed as we approached 1k. 

We are adding around 150 deaths for the previous day. There will absolutely be more than 1000 pipeline deaths, i.e people have died but not recorded yet. If these were all recorded right now we'd probably see a couple of thousand deaths announced tomorrow. 

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16 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

While I agree with the sentiment, I would suggest his research might be in virology, epidemilogy or even sociology that is applicable to this. That would certainly give him a valuable insight. I would agree that these valuable insights could be shared in a relevant place.

...but definitely not anger management or diplomacy.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
Ralph Waldo Emerson

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4 hours ago, fairfolly said:

Here in Spain I have not seen one single child out playing or wandering around the streets. The schools are closed and will remain so for the foreseable future. Just this afternoon I was speaking to my Spanish neighbour over my garden hedge and asked her why there was no children about. I never knew this but the reason is that even though there is no school, children are not allowed out of their own house or gardens.

Amazingly this is being followed to the letter of the law by the parents and the children.Saying that the Guardia and Special Forces out on the streets can be pretty intimidating.

Yes the Guardia Civil are not to be messed with. My father in law lived out in Mojicar for years, he got into a bit of an argument with them about where he parked his car. In retaliation one of the Guardia pulled out his gun and shot my father in law's dog  " Haggis " dead and threw my father in law in jail over night.

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8 hours ago, Futtocks said:

...but definitely not anger management or diplomacy.

He seems very determined we should see him as very macho. The kind thing to do is offer him lots of reassurance and avoid army stories.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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10 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I would like to ask all those ex military types to carry on with their reminiscing of their past , I'm glad those that most if not all didn't have a war to fight , I'm sure they are most unpleasant 

On your second point how stupid does somebody need to be to not understand that quite often it is a combination of health issues that causes death ?

 

9 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

He seems very determined we should see him as very macho. The kind thing to do is offer him lots of reassurance and avoid army stories.

Pretty predictable responses.

Firstly, to answer a question with another question. How stupid does somebody need to be to be unable to understand that if somebody dies of heart failure, then they die of heart failure? The fact that they also have this virus doesn't mean that Covid-19 was the cause of death and they should not be included in the fatalities statistics. As I have stated before, it's a very convenient way for doctors to get death certificates knocked off sharpish. The fear factor of all these "thousands of deaths" also suits the other agendas.

Bob8 - Rather than any "macho" posturing, you're way off the mark. I'm just not a frightened sheep. (But thanks for making the effort to post your pathetic response).

The clique on here very much sound like "he's not in our gang" infant school comments. Rest assured, I certainly don't need your reassurance, nor that of anybody else on here.

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3 minutes ago, BryanC said:

Pretty predictable responses.

Firstly, to answer a question with another question. How stupid does somebody need to be to be unable to understand that if somebody dies of heart failure, then they die of heart failure? The fact that they also have this virus doesn't mean that Covid-19 was the cause of death and they should not be included in the fatalities statistics. As I have stated before, it's a very convenient way for doctors to get death certificates knocked off sharpish. The fear factor of all these "thousands of deaths" also suits the other agendas.

Bob8 - Rather than any "macho" posturing, you're way off the mark. I'm just not a frightened sheep. (But thanks for making the effort to post your pathetic response).

The clique on here very much sound like "he's not in our gang" infant school comments. Rest assured, I certainly don't need your reassurance, nor that of anybody else on here.

Great to hear from you, @BryanC! You are not a frightened sheep, but very much a man and very much part of the team! Go you!

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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47 minutes ago, BryanC said:

 

Pretty predictable responses.

Firstly, to answer a question with another question. How stupid does somebody need to be to be unable to understand that if somebody dies of heart failure, then they die of heart failure? The fact that they also have this virus doesn't mean that Covid-19 was the cause of death and they should not be included in the fatalities statistics. As I have stated before, it's a very convenient way for doctors to get death certificates knocked off sharpish. The fear factor of all these "thousands of deaths" also suits the other agendas.

Bob8 - Rather than any "macho" posturing, you're way off the mark. I'm just not a frightened sheep. (But thanks for making the effort to post your pathetic response).

The clique on here very much sound like "he's not in our gang" infant school comments. Rest assured, I certainly don't need your reassurance, nor that of anybody else on here.

 

672A6358-1AD4-4E1F-8507-C1061FC59BC1.jpeg

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1 hour ago, BryanC said:

 

Pretty predictable responses.

Firstly, to answer a question with another question. How stupid does somebody need to be to be unable to understand that if somebody dies of heart failure, then they die of heart failure? The fact that they also have this virus doesn't mean that Covid-19 was the cause of death and they should not be included in the fatalities statistics. As I have stated before, it's a very convenient way for doctors to get death certificates knocked off sharpish. The fear factor of all these "thousands of deaths" also suits the other agendas.

Bob8 - Rather than any "macho" posturing, you're way off the mark. I'm just not a frightened sheep. (But thanks for making the effort to post your pathetic response).

The clique on here very much sound like "he's not in our gang" infant school comments. Rest assured, I certainly don't need your reassurance, nor that of anybody else on here.

I'll pen Boris a letter , " dear Boris can you get this sorted , we need everybody dying at the moment to have an autopsy so that a poster of Total RL fans can decide whether he is a ' Mary Ellen ' ( whatever that means ) or not " 

If you have a heart problem , that you can happily live with , but you then contract another illness that causes a cardiac arrest due to the pressure put on the heart are you saying that other illness has not contributed to your death ? 

Either way , this ' Mary Ellen ' will now add you to the list , I recommend others follow suit 

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15 minutes ago, Damien said:

China revise Wuhan death toll up by 50%. Obviously they have realised that their original figures look more than a little comical in light of what has happened the world over.

Quite. The Chinese lie. Their figures are meaningless.

But if their initial reaction, given how little they care for their citizens, doesn't convince you that this is a seriously serious virus (they shut down whole cities, put their country into recession *and* rush built hospitals and sent out hundreds of medics) then nothing will.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Quite. The Chinese lie. Their figures are meaningless.

But if their initial reaction, given how little they care for their citizens, doesn't convince you that this is a seriously serious virus (they shut down whole cities, put their country into recession *and* rush built hospitals and sent out hundreds of medics) then nothing will.

Its no worse than flu though.

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So, these people travelled to the bridge, all got in massed huddles and they think they're doing nice things for the NHS?

We appreciate the applause, but we appreciate it more when they do it following social distancing rules.

Or... does virtue signalling trump social distancing?

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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16 minutes ago, ckn said:

So, these people travelled to the bridge, all got in massed huddles and they think they're doing nice things for the NHS?

We appreciate the applause, but we appreciate it more when they do it following social distancing rules.

Or... does virtue signalling trump social distancing?

Its one thing being an idiot yourself but putting your kids at risk is a special kind of idiocy that I cant comprehend.

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20 minutes ago, ckn said:

So, these people travelled to the bridge, all got in massed huddles and they think they're doing nice things for the NHS?

We appreciate the applause, but we appreciate it more when they do it following social distancing rules.

Or... does virtue signalling trump social distancing?

Incredible , I didn't realise people actually lived on the bridge , or are they all the trolls who live underneath it ?

No wonder London is suffering so bad , thick southerners 

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2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Its one thing being an idiot yourself but putting your kids at risk is a special kind of idiocy that I cant comprehend.

Big fan of the Met Police, who spent the previous week rounding up exercisers in parks, joining in.

There are people who live either side of the bridge - a surprising number in fact - so it's not like people will have travelled far (less than 500m and you'll have thousands of people for example) but ... YOU IDIOTS.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Northern Ireland Covid-19 deaths up to 10th April have risen by a third once care home deaths and other non hospital deaths are added.

The total number of coronavirus-related deaths in Northern Ireland is 39 higher than had been previously reported.

The breakdown has been published for the first time by the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (Nisra).

It recorded 157 coronavirus-related deaths in NI by 10 April.

The number of deaths also includes suspected cases, whereas the Public Health Agency, uses a different method and had recorded 118 deaths by the same date.

Nisra said there were 109 hospital deaths, 41 in care homes and hospices and seven at residential addresses.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52322933

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Big fan of the Met Police, who spent the previous week rounding up exercisers in parks, joining in.

There are people who live either side of the bridge - a surprising number in fact - so it's not like people will have travelled far (less than 500m and you'll have thousands of people for example) but ... YOU IDIOTS.

From the BBC Latest News section. I do like the way they differentiate between people and officers to suit:

Police respond to 'clapping crowd' on Westminster Bridge

London's Metropolitan Police says officers are reminded regularly of "the importance of social distancing" after some appeared not to follow the government guidance during a clap for carers on Westminster Bridge.

People in the UK have been applauding at 20:00 each Thursday to show their appreciation for the country’s key workers during lockdown.

But videos on social media show members of the public and officers standing close together while taking part on Westminster Bridge.

“Officers, along with other emergency service workers, came together last night on Westminster Bridge to celebrate the work of all key workers,” a Met spokesperson said.

“A large number of members of the public also gathered to express their gratitude.

“While many people adhered to social distancing guidance, it appears that some did not.

“We regularly remind our officers of the importance of social distancing where practical, and will continue do so.”

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Not particularly relevant.

Vaccines are in progress, but a vaccine that works will still work to a certain extent. The flu vaccine is not 100% effective and it is unlikely that a vaccine to this will be either. It will initially give a greater degree of protection to some vulnerable people and some key workers, and later reduce the transmission rate.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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