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47 minutes ago, BryanC said:

 

Pretty predictable responses.

Firstly, to answer a question with another question. How stupid does somebody need to be to be unable to understand that if somebody dies of heart failure, then they die of heart failure? The fact that they also have this virus doesn't mean that Covid-19 was the cause of death and they should not be included in the fatalities statistics. As I have stated before, it's a very convenient way for doctors to get death certificates knocked off sharpish. The fear factor of all these "thousands of deaths" also suits the other agendas.

Bob8 - Rather than any "macho" posturing, you're way off the mark. I'm just not a frightened sheep. (But thanks for making the effort to post your pathetic response).

The clique on here very much sound like "he's not in our gang" infant school comments. Rest assured, I certainly don't need your reassurance, nor that of anybody else on here.

 

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1 hour ago, BryanC said:

 

Pretty predictable responses.

Firstly, to answer a question with another question. How stupid does somebody need to be to be unable to understand that if somebody dies of heart failure, then they die of heart failure? The fact that they also have this virus doesn't mean that Covid-19 was the cause of death and they should not be included in the fatalities statistics. As I have stated before, it's a very convenient way for doctors to get death certificates knocked off sharpish. The fear factor of all these "thousands of deaths" also suits the other agendas.

Bob8 - Rather than any "macho" posturing, you're way off the mark. I'm just not a frightened sheep. (But thanks for making the effort to post your pathetic response).

The clique on here very much sound like "he's not in our gang" infant school comments. Rest assured, I certainly don't need your reassurance, nor that of anybody else on here.

I'll pen Boris a letter , " dear Boris can you get this sorted , we need everybody dying at the moment to have an autopsy so that a poster of Total RL fans can decide whether he is a ' Mary Ellen ' ( whatever that means ) or not " 

If you have a heart problem , that you can happily live with , but you then contract another illness that causes a cardiac arrest due to the pressure put on the heart are you saying that other illness has not contributed to your death ? 

Either way , this ' Mary Ellen ' will now add you to the list , I recommend others follow suit 

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15 minutes ago, Damien said:

China revise Wuhan death toll up by 50%. Obviously they have realised that their original figures look more than a little comical in light of what has happened the world over.

Quite. The Chinese lie. Their figures are meaningless.

But if their initial reaction, given how little they care for their citizens, doesn't convince you that this is a seriously serious virus (they shut down whole cities, put their country into recession *and* rush built hospitals and sent out hundreds of medics) then nothing will.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Quite. The Chinese lie. Their figures are meaningless.

But if their initial reaction, given how little they care for their citizens, doesn't convince you that this is a seriously serious virus (they shut down whole cities, put their country into recession *and* rush built hospitals and sent out hundreds of medics) then nothing will.

Its no worse than flu though.

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So, these people travelled to the bridge, all got in massed huddles and they think they're doing nice things for the NHS?

We appreciate the applause, but we appreciate it more when they do it following social distancing rules.

Or... does virtue signalling trump social distancing?

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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"Men will be proud to say 'I am a European'. We hope to see a day when men of every country will think as much of being a European as of being from their native land." (Winston Churchill)

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16 minutes ago, ckn said:

So, these people travelled to the bridge, all got in massed huddles and they think they're doing nice things for the NHS?

We appreciate the applause, but we appreciate it more when they do it following social distancing rules.

Or... does virtue signalling trump social distancing?

Its one thing being an idiot yourself but putting your kids at risk is a special kind of idiocy that I cant comprehend.

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20 minutes ago, ckn said:

So, these people travelled to the bridge, all got in massed huddles and they think they're doing nice things for the NHS?

We appreciate the applause, but we appreciate it more when they do it following social distancing rules.

Or... does virtue signalling trump social distancing?

Incredible , I didn't realise people actually lived on the bridge , or are they all the trolls who live underneath it ?

No wonder London is suffering so bad , thick southerners 

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2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Its one thing being an idiot yourself but putting your kids at risk is a special kind of idiocy that I cant comprehend.

Big fan of the Met Police, who spent the previous week rounding up exercisers in parks, joining in.

There are people who live either side of the bridge - a surprising number in fact - so it's not like people will have travelled far (less than 500m and you'll have thousands of people for example) but ... YOU IDIOTS.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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Northern Ireland Covid-19 deaths up to 10th April have risen by a third once care home deaths and other non hospital deaths are added.

The total number of coronavirus-related deaths in Northern Ireland is 39 higher than had been previously reported.

The breakdown has been published for the first time by the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency (Nisra).

It recorded 157 coronavirus-related deaths in NI by 10 April.

The number of deaths also includes suspected cases, whereas the Public Health Agency, uses a different method and had recorded 118 deaths by the same date.

Nisra said there were 109 hospital deaths, 41 in care homes and hospices and seven at residential addresses.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-52322933

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1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Big fan of the Met Police, who spent the previous week rounding up exercisers in parks, joining in.

There are people who live either side of the bridge - a surprising number in fact - so it's not like people will have travelled far (less than 500m and you'll have thousands of people for example) but ... YOU IDIOTS.

From the BBC Latest News section. I do like the way they differentiate between people and officers to suit:

Police respond to 'clapping crowd' on Westminster Bridge

London's Metropolitan Police says officers are reminded regularly of "the importance of social distancing" after some appeared not to follow the government guidance during a clap for carers on Westminster Bridge.

People in the UK have been applauding at 20:00 each Thursday to show their appreciation for the country’s key workers during lockdown.

But videos on social media show members of the public and officers standing close together while taking part on Westminster Bridge.

“Officers, along with other emergency service workers, came together last night on Westminster Bridge to celebrate the work of all key workers,” a Met spokesperson said.

“A large number of members of the public also gathered to express their gratitude.

“While many people adhered to social distancing guidance, it appears that some did not.

“We regularly remind our officers of the importance of social distancing where practical, and will continue do so.”

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Not particularly relevant.

Vaccines are in progress, but a vaccine that works will still work to a certain extent. The flu vaccine is not 100% effective and it is unlikely that a vaccine to this will be either. It will initially give a greater degree of protection to some vulnerable people and some key workers, and later reduce the transmission rate.

"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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11 minutes ago, Bob8 said:

Not particularly relevant.

Vaccines are in progress, but a vaccine that works will still work to a certain extent. The flu vaccine is not 100% effective and it is unlikely that a vaccine to this will be either. It will initially give a greater degree of protection to some vulnerable people and some key workers, and later reduce the transmission rate.

It should contribute to herd immunity (and that's used in a positive way) if we can get even 90% uptake of those who've not had a positive test in the past (therefore should have SOME antibodies). As soon as we can get high numbers of even very effective (rather than completely effective) vaccine then we can start getting back to normal in relative confidence of safety.

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"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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4 minutes ago, ckn said:

It should contribute to herd immunity (and that's used in a positive way) if we can get even 90% uptake of those who've not had a positive test in the past (therefore should have SOME antibodies). As soon as we can get high numbers of even very effective (rather than completely effective) vaccine then we can start getting back to normal in relative confidence of safety.

Is it right to think that, despite its negative connotations,  herd immunity is our best bet of restoring some sort of normality in the absence of an effective vaccine?

I keep hearing the question, 'If you've had it, can you have it again?, but I am just as interested in whether this means that having already had the virus, you can't be infectious to other people again (ie you may be carrying the virus, but be immune to it). That's the biggie, if ultimately herd immunity has such a big role to play. I am well out of my knowledge base on stuff like this, so it might be a daft question.

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2 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

Is it right to think that, despite its negative connotations,  herd immunity is our best bet of restoring some sort of normality in the absence of an effective vaccine?

I keep hearing the question, 'If you've had it, can you have it again?, but I am just as interested in whether this means that having already had the virus, you can't be infectious to other people again (ie you may be carrying the virus, but be immune to it). That's the biggie, if ultimately herd immunity has such a big role to play. I am well out of my knowledge base on stuff like this, so it might be a daft question.

On the first para: If the immunity is gained via vaccine, yes. If it's gained by throwing people to the infection and just sucking up the death count, no, there be panic, dragons and many more years of long-term economic and health impacts.

On the second para: there simply is no answer to whether you can get it again or not as it's confusing some of the best medical minds. Some people being tested for antibodies weeks post confirmred infection are seeing zero antibodies, almost as if the body isn't storing the template to fight off a second infection.

If you're carrying the virus, you're infectious to one level or another. And even that's not perfect. For example, up to two weeks after a blood tests says you're now COVID-negative you can still be defecating small amounts of live virus.

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"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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13 minutes ago, ckn said:

It should contribute to herd immunity (and that's used in a positive way) if we can get even 90% uptake of those who've not had a positive test in the past (therefore should have SOME antibodies). As soon as we can get high numbers of even very effective (rather than completely effective) vaccine then we can start getting back to normal in relative confidence of safety.

Absolutely.

5 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

Is it right to think that, despite its negative connotations,  herd immunity is our best bet of restoring some sort of normality in the absence of an effective vaccine?

I keep hearing the question, 'If you've had it, can you have it again?, but I am just as interested in whether this means that having already had the virus, you can't be infectious to other people again (ie you may be carrying the virus, but be immune to it). That's the biggie, if ultimately herd immunity has such a big role to play. I am well out of my knowledge base on stuff like this, so it might be a daft question.

Herd imunity can wipe out diseases. Herd immunity is great in itself, it is the route to that goal that can be the tragic problem.

Biology is horribly grey as multicellular organisms are very complex.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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1 minute ago, ckn said:

On the first para: If the immunity is gained via vaccine, yes. If it's gained by throwing people to the infection and just sucking up the death count, no, there be panic, dragons and many more years of long-term economic and health impacts.

On the second para: there simply is no answer to whether you can get it again or not as it's confusing some of the best medical minds. Some people being tested for antibodies weeks post confirmred infection are seeing zero antibodies, almost as if the body isn't storing the template to fight off a second infection.

If you're carrying the virus, you're infectious to one level or another. And even that's not perfect. For example, up to two weeks after a blood tests says you're now COVID-negative you can still be defecating small amounts of live virus.

I saw your reply and deleted much of my half written answer as you put it much better.

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"You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014

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26 minutes ago, ckn said:

On the first para: If the immunity is gained via vaccine, yes. If it's gained by throwing people to the infection and just sucking up the death count, no, there be panic, dragons and many more years of long-term economic and health impacts.

 

But in the absence of a vaccine?

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If 10% of squaddies are working from home, I guess that'll mean 10+ coats of paint on already well painted stuff, unnecessary shouting at each other for no reason other than ego, morning parades for the family, more painting, maybe a lot of running around the garden, and finished off by a lot of waiting around griping about how long it is until the next break. For the officers, it may mean more Telegraph rustling and harrumphing at the domestic staff that there's a water stain on the Mess silver. ?

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"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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People on this board would know better than me but I've seen or heard (I cant actually remember) that there is possibly a correlation between the initial dose a person receives and the seriousness of the condition they develop. I think the theory is that a tiny dose gives the body more time to fight back where as a bigger dose can overwhelm quicker. Hence partly the death figures for Doctors and Nurses. This makes sense to me and my unscientific mind, especially as it is essentially the way that vaccines work. Does this sound plausible?

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6 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

But in the absence of a vaccine?

Social distancing, doing your damnedest to keep your hands washed if you touch anything that's likely to be infected, wearing a face covering (not necessarily a medical mask) and so on. And then accepting excrement happens occasionally and you can't 100% risk manage. But that can only happen once you get infection numbers dropping to low levels, I've seen <100/day as the benchmark for a widespread relaxation of lockdown but that's just a best guess that'll help reduce future outbreaks.

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"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

People on this board would know better than me but I've seen or heard (I cant actually remember) that there is possibly a correlation between the initial dose a person receives and the seriousness of the condition they develop. I think the theory is that a tiny dose gives the body more time to fight back where as a bigger dose can overwhelm quicker. Hence partly the death figures for Doctors and Nurses. This makes sense to me and my unscientific mind, especially as it is essentially the way that vaccines work. Does this sound plausible?

Best guess is yes, viral load MAY have a big impact. Here's one explanation I got via a google search.

"When in deadly danger, when beset by doubt; run in little circles, wave your arms and shout"

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5 minutes ago, ckn said:

Social distancing, doing your damnedest to keep your hands washed if you touch anything that's likely to be infected, wearing a face covering (not necessarily a medical mask) and so on. And then accepting excrement happens occasionally and you can't 100% risk manage. But that can only happen once you get infection numbers dropping to low levels, I've seen <100/day as the benchmark for a widespread relaxation of lockdown but that's just a best guess that'll help reduce future outbreaks.

And how do you think that will effect things like summer holidays etc? I note a change in tone in the last week from places like Cornwall, where before they were telling people to stay away and now are desperate for the tourist season to reverse some of their income loss.

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